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Topic ClosedThe most intriguing conspiracy theory
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Poll Question: Choose the conspiracy theory that most interests you
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
5 [10.64%]
0 [0.00%]
6 [12.77%]
5 [10.64%]
16 [34.04%]
0 [0.00%]
1 [2.13%]
3 [6.38%]
3 [6.38%]
3 [6.38%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
3 [6.38%]
2 [4.26%]
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thellama73 View Drop Down
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Points: 8368 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2012 at 08:15
I think the existence of extraterrestrial life is a near certainty. I think the possibility that they have vistted Earth is, as Dean says, very, very unlikely.
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Points: 3167 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2012 at 08:34
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

I think the existence of extraterrestrial life is a near certainty. I think the possibility that they have vistted Earth is, as Dean says, very, very unlikely.
That, or extraterrestrial life already existed and destroyed itself before it was able to really reach interstellar travel. The universe has been around so long. There has probably been life that has come and gone many times. But I doubt they ever even reached our solar system.
http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/



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Points: 8581 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2012 at 12:11
Chem clouds/trails. My favorite stupid conspiracy theory. You are never more than 2 pages away from one of these dolts on YouTube.



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Points: 451 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2012 at 14:15
Originally posted by Smurph Smurph wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

I think the existence of extraterrestrial life is a near certainty. I think the possibility that they have vistted Earth is, as Dean says, very, very unlikely.
That, or extraterrestrial life already existed and destroyed itself before it was able to really reach interstellar travel. The universe has been around so long. There has probably been life that has come and gone many times. But I doubt they ever even reached our solar system.
Yes, these are possibilities. But if they exist but never have or never will visit earth, that kind of takes all the fun out of it.
I think that it's possible that we have been visited. I think that  enough evidence (or signs) has been left to at least support the "possibility".
Cattle mutilations? No, that doesn't make sense at all. There's a better chance that these were done by some wacko satanic cult.
Crop circles? In my opinion, based on the photos I've seen, this one has a chance.
Then there's the cave drawings of men with fish bowls on their heads. This one also needs to be explained.
What is also interesting to me is the number of people around the world that are very serious about this subject. That number is high enough that it really can't just be explained as a passing fad.
But to stay on topic, if there is the possibility of having been visited, why is the government covering it up?
 
(This is all for fun. It's interesting to discuss from time to time but I don't even have a roll of tin foil in my kitchen)
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thellama73 View Drop Down
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Points: 8368 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2012 at 14:23
Accounts of alien abductions are common enough that they shouldn't be dismissed. It is interesting to note that the descriptions of these events are very similar to descriptions people used to give of encounters with fairies and other supernatural beings.

I think it's a good bet that the phenomenon is real, but that our understanding and interpretation of it has changed to be more in line with our cultural expectations.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2012 at 14:54
Originally posted by GaryB GaryB wrote:

Crop circles? In my opinion, based on the photos I've seen, this one has a chance.
Really - you can tell by just looking at a photo that some were not made by hoaxers?
 
This one actually does have a conspiracy theory attached to it - some cereologists believe that the hoaxers are part of a Government conspiracy to cover up the alleged alien-made circles.
 
In my opinion this simply does not need an alien explanation - the hoaxers have owned up to some pretty complex patterns and explained how they made them, I've see a couple in real life and there is nothing supernatural about them, they are impressive, but so are lots of manmade artifacts. Mankind has been making geoglyphs for years using simple surveying tools such as sticks and string, why is it we in the 21st century with night vision glasses and GPS navigation and access to whole library of text books on geometric patterns are considered too dumb to make a few crop circles?
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Points: 5154 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2012 at 15:14
Plus, all the stories about aliens and abductions curiously flourished just when mankind got to the point of seeing space exploration as a real possibility due to the scientific progress.
 
Before the 20th century nobody talked about aliens. Then suddenly in the 20th century the myth started to flourish (with HG Wells The War Of The Worlds being a mass population trigger although it had been already seeded by Jules Verne From The Earth To The Moon, and the real kick came with the real space programs as from the 50's) and suddenly lots of people witnessed landings, aliens, encounters and abductions.
 
Come on, that's crap. As mentioned before, unless our understanding of the laws of physics is seriously flawed (it is certainly incomplete but it's reasonable to think that it's not radically flawed), the chance that different civilizations may come into contact is ridiculously small.
I tend to think that this is one of the funny aspects of the way the universe is, it seems built so as life can (or probably better said, must) arise in multiple places and times, but because of special relativity, the cosmic expansion, the speed-of-light limit and the timescales involved, different civilizations will never be able to meet, which is probably for good.


Edited by Gerinski - July 26 2012 at 15:17
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2012 at 16:05
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Accounts of alien abductions are common enough that they shouldn't be dismissed. It is interesting to note that the descriptions of these events are very similar to descriptions people used to give of encounters with fairies and other supernatural beings.

I think it's a good bet that the phenomenon is real, but that our understanding and interpretation of it has changed to be more in line with our cultural expectations.
The phenomenon is real - there is little doubt of that - what is in doubt is whether the abductions are real and whether they are by aliens. The descriptions are also similar to events described in religious texts - the "fish bowls on their heads" cave drawing are not dissimilar to the halos in christian iconography. Whatever the phenomenon is, it's been around an awfully long time which suggests it is psychological rather than physical (a form of lucid dreaming, such as Hypnagogia - certainly that contains a lot of "explanation" for abduction experiences with, for example, aura, halos and "fish bowls on their heads" being a form of synesthesia).
 
I can happily dismiss the alien hypothesis for the same simple reasons I gave earlier today on why we've not been visited by extraterrestrials - the distance between the stars is prohibitive for interstellar travel - they would not just need approaching light-speed velocities, they would need Star Trek warp speeds (for example warp 8 is 512 times light-speed) just to move around the local stellar neighbourhood and even then journey times would still be measured in years. But as I intimated in my camel through the eye of a needle analogy - even if warping space was possible, it would also warp the vessel travelling though it and its contents.
 
Also, given the number of reported and estimated abductions (we are talking in millions here) then we are not talking about a sight-seeing trip by some local neighbourhood alien gathering a few shells on the beach for a science project - those numbers (if true) are indicative of a full scale invasion by an apparently hostile race (ie hostile like the European pioneers and explorers were hostile to indigenous natives) - since that invasion force would be significantly more advanced than us (and I mean really significantly more advanced) the evidence they are leaving behind is remarkably amateurish for an operation that is otherwise "stealth" or "cloaked".


Edited by Dean - July 26 2012 at 16:13
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GaryB View Drop Down
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Points: 451 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2012 at 19:13
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by GaryB GaryB wrote:

Crop circles? In my opinion, based on the photos I've seen, this one has a chance.
Really - you can tell by just looking at a photo that some were not made by hoaxers?
 
This one actually does have a conspiracy theory attached to it - some cereologists believe that the hoaxers are part of a Government conspiracy to cover up the alleged alien-made circles.
 
In my opinion this simply does not need an alien explanation - the hoaxers have owned up to some pretty complex patterns and explained how they made them, I've see a couple in real life and there is nothing supernatural about them, they are impressive, but so are lots of manmade artifacts. Mankind has been making geoglyphs for years using simple surveying tools such as sticks and string, why is it we in the 21st century with night vision glasses and GPS navigation and access to whole library of text books on geometric patterns are considered too dumb to make a few crop circles?
The photos that I mentioned (in my opinion) are the same ones most people have seen, low altitude aerial photos.
What I noticed in these photos was that some of these designs were extremely large, usually longer than they are wide. They are very detailed and they are symmetrical.
I know about the hoaxers and saw an entire program about them not long ago. I know that they go into cornfields at night with ropes and stakes and small squares of plywood and create patterns. The program did not show them being able to make the larger, intricate and symmetrical designs that are shown in the aerial photos. Nor did the hoaxers claim that they could do it.
I am aware of the fact that two men can go into a field with a fifty foot rope and make a one hundred foot circle.
I know that those two men can take a longer rope and stretch it out and have a reasonably straight line and then by using the three-foot, four-foot, five-foot method of triangulation can come off that line at a pretty accurate ninety degrees.
None of this proves that the hoaxers could duplicate these larger designs, especially if they are in a cornfield with stalks that reach eight to ten feet. I have walked into a cornfield and your line of sight is limited to a few feet at best.
Yes, a group of people using the 21st century items you listed could create some very impressive designs that would probably end the debate. The fact that they could do it doesn't resolve anything because this was not the case. I saw nothing in the hoaxer program about this ever having been done.
There is another point that has to be considered and that is time. Some farmers claim that it happened over night because it wasn't there one day but it was they next. In other locations farmers said that theirs had to have happened in two to three days time. Were these people being truthful? I have no idea, but in all cases where farmers and residents were interviewed, no one ever saw or heard it happening. The hoaxers used gas generators to power flood lights on stands. Elevated flood lights in the middle of a cornfield all night long would surely have been seen by someone. And since it's pretty quiet down on the farm at night,  gas powered generators runnining all night would have drawn attention.
That's what I got by looking at a photo.
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2012 at 20:22
Originally posted by GaryB GaryB wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by GaryB GaryB wrote:

Crop circles? In my opinion, based on the photos I've seen, this one has a chance.
Really - you can tell by just looking at a photo that some were not made by hoaxers?
 
This one actually does have a conspiracy theory attached to it - some cereologists believe that the hoaxers are part of a Government conspiracy to cover up the alleged alien-made circles.
 
In my opinion this simply does not need an alien explanation - the hoaxers have owned up to some pretty complex patterns and explained how they made them, I've see a couple in real life and there is nothing supernatural about them, they are impressive, but so are lots of manmade artifacts. Mankind has been making geoglyphs for years using simple surveying tools such as sticks and string, why is it we in the 21st century with night vision glasses and GPS navigation and access to whole library of text books on geometric patterns are considered too dumb to make a few crop circles?
The photos that I mentioned (in my opinion) are the same ones most people have seen, low altitude aerial photos.
What I noticed in these photos was that some of these designs were extremely large, usually longer than they are wide. They are very detailed and they are symmetrical.
I know about the hoaxers and saw an entire program about them not long ago. I know that they go into cornfields at night with ropes and stakes and small squares of plywood and create patterns. The program did not show them being able to make the larger, intricate and symmetrical designs that are shown in the aerial photos. Nor did the hoaxers claim that they could do it.
I am aware of the fact that two men can go into a field with a fifty foot rope and make a one hundred foot circle.
I know that those two men can take a longer rope and stretch it out and have a reasonably straight line and then by using the three-foot, four-foot, five-foot method of triangulation can come off that line at a pretty accurate ninety degrees.
None of this proves that the hoaxers could duplicate these larger designs, especially if they are in a cornfield with stalks that reach eight to ten feet. I have walked into a cornfield and your line of sight is limited to a few feet at best.
Yes, a group of people using the 21st century items you listed could create some very impressive designs that would probably end the debate. The fact that they could do it doesn't resolve anything because this was not the case. I saw nothing in the hoaxer program about this ever having been done.
There is another point that has to be considered and that is time. Some farmers claim that it happened over night because it wasn't there one day but it was they next. In other locations farmers said that theirs had to have happened in two to three days time. Were these people being truthful? I have no idea, but in all cases where farmers and residents were interviewed, no one ever saw or heard it happening. The hoaxers used gas generators to power flood lights on stands. Elevated flood lights in the middle of a cornfield all night long would surely have been seen by someone. And since it's pretty quiet down on the farm at night,  gas powered generators runnining all night would have drawn attention.
That's what I got by looking at a photo.
I assume you know that some crop circle photographs are faked using photoshop.
 
Being symetrical is not an issue - some are, some aren't - many of those that are are not perfectly symetrical. Generator noise is also not an issue - if the circles are found adjacent to farmhouses then I'd be interested, but most seem to be too far away from habitation for that to be an issue (modern farming tends to favour larger fields, even in England) ... reports always seem to say "in a remote location", the ones I have seen were certainly nowhere near farm (or any other) buildings.
 
I have to admit to never having seen a crop circle made in corn (what we call maize) growing 8 to 10 feet high - all those in England are in wheat (which we call corn), oats and barley since we don't grow much maize (that you call corn) and it's (as you say) too tall for line-of-sight mapping of anything too complex. Modern cultivated wheat is very short (18" - 24") bread that way to make it easier to harvest and less susceptible to storm damage, as you can see from this photograph of the famous crop circle used on Led Zepp's Remasters album cover (I think the three smaller figures are children and the person standing in the centre is an adult):
Crop Circles Led Zeppelin Remasters Wiltshire UK Alton Barnes
 
If you compare the actual site photograph with the album cover you will notice it's been heavily photoshoped to clean-up the ragged edges and some of the smaller perifery circles have been erased.
 
Looking at photographs of crop-circles in the USA - all the large complex formations are in wheat or barley - those in maize are much smaller and/or much simpler (no suprises there).
 
Still nothing about this says supernatural or extraterrestrial.
 
 
 
 
 
 
/edit: Also acheiving straight lines in crop fields isn't exactly the most difficult thing in the world because the crops are planted in linear furrows and walking through a field without leaving a track is a remarkably simple thing to do as long as you don't step on the plants themselves by walk between them - this can be achieved without using the tractor paths that are present in practically every crop circle photograph (such as those in the Led Zepp cropcircle photograph above). Even moving perpendicular (or any other angle) to the furrows without leaving a track isn't that difficult - in maise you can step between the plants and in wheat you can step over them. This even explains why most crop circlle formations are aligned with these furrows and tractor paths.


Edited by Dean - July 27 2012 at 04:18
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AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down
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Points: 14258 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2012 at 02:28
Heres a movie that really has me intrigued


Its long but worth having on in the background
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AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down
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Points: 14258 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2012 at 06:14
heres a classic to see if u missed it

theorists believe Aug 8th 2012 will have a UFO land at olympics closing ceremony and it will cover up a real landing

they say the same thing happened in 1984
watch below but turn down sound as repeated dialogue is annoying



Edited by AtomicCrimsonRush - July 29 2012 at 06:16
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HarbouringTheSoul View Drop Down
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Points: 1199 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2012 at 06:39
I went with ". I'm convinced that there were two shots that landed and that they were both fired by Oswald, and the video footage clearly supports this. That said, based on the accounts of eyewitnesses, I think it's possible that there were other gunmen involved whose shots never hit Kennedy.
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Points: 14258 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2012 at 08:28


THAT was fascinating

goes into how MJ was killed and how Eminim will be discredited. Very nice series of videos
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2012 at 13:27
Scott, you post a lot of videos here and say how facinating various things are and in the OP you said you'd "done quite a bit of research into these", but don't give any thoughts of your own or wade into any of the for/against debates. Are there any of these conspiracie theories you believe in, or are you merely playing devil's advocate?
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2012 at 16:22
I don't have time for what might be. 
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