an end to the candy store insight for UK.

This thread about downloads just became the same as every single other. Let's smoosh them altogether and take turns to say zero-dimensional things like "copyright infringement is theft" or "I wouldn't have bought it anyway!" into one single intertube.

to progchick - your crusade for Pendragon is well-noted. I was just saying (in a uselessly opaque way) that a victory for you is a defeat for, you know, rational governing and people who are likely going to get hit by the splash damage from this poor proposal.

Bornlivedie UK wrote: chopper wrote: Bornlivedie UK wrote: This is so stupid. If I didn't download music I would only beable to buy one album a month or something (Im poor ). Ontop of that the local music shops DO NOT stock prog. And if you ask them to order it for you it takes months and good luck EVER getting obscure music.... Not a good excuse for illegal downloading. I can't afford a Porsche but I don't go out and steal one. Even if you could pull an exact copy of the Porsche out of thin air into your garage? I hate when people compare downloading to stealing actual property, it's just not the same thing. I think it's obscene the amount of money alot of musicians have anyway (obviously not all of them are insanely rich, but still).. I downloaded some beatles the other week.. now come on.. Paul Mc Carteny has a fortune of around £800 million, I think he has enough, you know? EDIT: Not to mention all the music I listen to made by people who are DEAD. They aren't exactly gonna miss the money.

Ah, so theft is acceptable if the person can afford it then? What about bands such as Pendragon who are really suffering because people download their albums illegally instead of paying for them?

And even if the artist is dead, the royalties would go to someone (e.g. a relative) so you're still thieving.

There are soooo many legal ways to hear material from an album before you buy it.  I must have 200 albums that I bought just because I heard a song I liked on the radio, often times there wasn't a lot else I liked on the album initially but over time most of it grew on me, but considering how much enjoyment I get even if only one song, it wasn't a bad investment.

I will also state that since progagainstpirates got serious about enforcement, I've seen an increase in my own sales, so I don't think the pro-piracy statement that not allowing illegal downloads will hurt sales holds water.  What if the band made the whole album available for streaming at their web site?  That would be legal and the band would have control.  Try listening to internet radio to discover new songs, my own station has over 21,000 songs on it and you can request any of them to play.

chopper wrote: Bornlivedie UK wrote: chopper wrote: Bornlivedie UK wrote: This is so stupid. If I didn't download music I would only beable to buy one album a month or something (Im poor ). Ontop of that the local music shops DO NOT stock prog. And if you ask them to order it for you it takes months and good luck EVER getting obscure music.... Not a good excuse for illegal downloading. I can't afford a Porsche but I don't go out and steal one. Even if you could pull an exact copy of the Porsche out of thin air into your garage? I hate when people compare downloading to stealing actual property, it's just not the same thing. I think it's obscene the amount of money alot of musicians have anyway (obviously not all of them are insanely rich, but still).. I downloaded some beatles the other week.. now come on.. Paul Mc Carteny has a fortune of around £800 million, I think he has enough, you know? EDIT: Not to mention all the music I listen to made by people who are DEAD. They aren't exactly gonna miss the money. Ah, so theft is acceptable if the person can afford it then? What about bands such as Pendragon who are really suffering because people download their albums illegally instead of paying for them? And even if the artist is dead, the royalties would go to someone (e.g. a relative) so you're still thieving.

It is NOT theft. It would be theft if I went into a record shop and took a CD because I would be taking actual stock which they could sell. All im doing is making an exact copy of the music which isn't going to make the slightest difference to the artist.

BigBoss:

OK, to save me the trouble of wondering around the internet, could you post your favorite links then.

But remember, I have a very limited budget (in fact I can't even really buy CDs at the moment, even though I do ). I buy most of my music off amazon used, which doesn't benefit artists directly after the first purchase. There is a limit to how much I will spend. There is the concept that I remember P-C bringing up in another thread of "doing without" when one just doesn't have the money to buy something. Yes, and in most instances that would be both logical, and hard to get around. But let's please fess up to reality: if I don't have the money to buy a CD, the only harm that could logically come to the artist if I download the album is if I do not buy it at a later date. I should mention the timing of a later purchase should not be very long in a case like this, because it's not fair and for the artist and it just doesn't seem right to finally receive a royalty check 15 years later.

An about face: Yes, the whole point of some of my arguments is to justify illegal downloading. People get hung up on the "illegal" word and can't seem to move past it, even for harmless discussion. Illegal downloads are in place to protect the record company and the artist, but it is possible for the record company and the artist to benefit from illegal downloads. It may not be the norm, and it may not be the basis for action, but it has happened and it is possible, and even likely for people who truely love the music and the artist.


Edited by stonebeard - February 15 2008 at 14:26

also nothing offensive is meant by my post, its just me riffing on stupid video game stuff

I used to love to listen to AOL radio's progressive station. I dunno if it's still there. I used to record the music as I listened to it.  It was a laborious process for not that much payoff. I also remember when PA had mp3 downloads, not streams. I have 6 or so mix CDs I listen to from time to time. Brings back good memories, in a silly way.

BigBoss wrote: Bornlivedie: another of the top 10 pirate excuses "I'm not stealing a physical copy, I'm just stealing an electronic one" - this is the most pathetic and brain dead excuse I've ever seen.  If you didn't pay for it, then you short changed the artist.  period.  Why don't you give me your bank account number and routing number so I can just take electronic versions of your money.

Why go out, order a CD, wait months for it only to get ripped off by some record company when you could just get music you want to listen to there and then?

Going to all that effort to get hold of music just seems absurd when it's only a couple of clicks away right infront of me.

It's a matter of free and easy VS effort, money and a long wait.

Bornlivedie - months to receive a CD?  Please.  Buy a digital download then instead of stealing it.  Go to the store and buy it and walk home with it.  How is the label "ripping you off" in this case?  More like you are ripping off the label and the artist by stealing the music.  What a twisted sense of morals you have.  I honestly hope one day you have your home robbed or your car stolen so you can experience what it is like to get ripped off, because you obviously have a sense of entitlement.