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Points: 16952 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Post Rock and Math Rock
    Posted: January 03 2014 at 22:51
Hello, i just wanted to get a discussion possibly about one of my favorite genres that takes much of my listening. 
Both genres are very expansive and differ greatly from each other but are mixed constantly. 

I can understand why some people can dislike these genres. But i was curious what are the personal reasoning for some people's dislike or disinterest in these genres. 

On the flip side i feel like both genres bring a lot to the table. Math rock incorporates a lot of punk influences so the energy can sometimes be endless. I also love more intricate rhythms and more clean tones, which are used a lot - especially drum wise. I mean who hates grooves? Tongue

Some personal hidden gems of each genre, in my opinion, is Sgt's Stylus Fantasticus and Like Bells' s/t album.
Both actually feature a violin player, which is interesting to hear. 

I'd like to avoid making this simply a thread with lists but posting favorites is never discouraged. 





Cool


Edited by Horizons - January 03 2014 at 22:52
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Points: 20671 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2014 at 23:20
I think you have a convert to 'post rock/math rock' if they all sound like those 2 bands.....nice melodic fusion stuff which sounds more like mellow fusion meets eclectic than any other new genre to me.
I'll ck out your other suggestions on the subgenre thread
Cool
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Points: 21795 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2014 at 23:53
I am quite a fan, as my title might suggest.

Currently indulging in this:


But yes, the genres are just so emotive and can really make the mind go wonderful places. To me, it is the most addictive music because it is just so pleasant on the ears. Even the noisier stuff. I feel like everyone could learn to like it if they sat back and let it take them places, but I know it can be easy to grow impatient with. Especially stuff by Godspeed You! Black Emperor and the like. But yes, I highly recommend it to everyone.

Another favorite:
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 00:29
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=83775

Edited by Svetonio - January 04 2014 at 00:55
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Points: 16952 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 00:31
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

I think you have a convert to 'post rock/math rock' if they all sound like those 2 bands.....nice melodic fusion stuff which sounds more like mellow fusion meets eclectic than any other new genre to me.
I'll ck out your other suggestions on the subgenre thread
Cool

I'm glad you posted and i'm very glad you liked what you heard. 

Hopefully you'll posts your thoughts on any other albums/artists you hear. A nice place to start if you liked those would be possibly Bones in the Soil, Rust in the Oil by Pretend. 
Clean tones, dynamic, jazz influences here and there, mathy guitar lines. Great album. 
Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Points: 18016 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 00:32
I'm still not convinced the two subgenres are related at all.
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 01:16
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

I'm still not convinced the two subgenres are related at all.
Of course not. 
Those two genres have nothing in common.
Post Rock and Math Rock have been put together here just for practical reasons, methinks; as same as e.g. Experimental Metal and Post Metal are also sticked together.






Edited by Svetonio - January 04 2014 at 01:16
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Points: 21795 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 01:36
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=83775
We'll get to all of your suggestions, no need to bump them in another thread.
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 02:04
Originally posted by The Truth The Truth wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=83775
We'll get to all of your suggestions, no need to bump them in another thread.
Oh yea I need to bump even here because e.g. that Brussels' Math Rock band called Casse Brique was suggested and passed by pre-eval team to your esteemed team in December 2011; to the present, the Math Rock Team did not let a little voice in respect of the band. 
Thus, along with discussion about Post and Math Rock in this beautiful thread, might not hurt if you get listen a few songs from Casse Brique. 
Thank you in advance.
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Points: 260 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 02:07
I've listened my first Post Rock/Math Rock this year. The album was Random Avenger by Magyar Posse. Without doubts an example of creative genius and sounds that remains easily in mind.
I repeat I'm not an expert but I thought that this genre was found here for the many similarities with Pink Floyd music. Certainly a good discovered that I want to explore.
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Points: 21795 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 02:18
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by The Truth The Truth wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=83775
We'll get to all of your suggestions, no need to bump them in another thread.
Oh yea I need to bump even here because e.g. that Brussels' Math Rock band called Casse Brique was suggested and passed by pre-eval team to your esteemed team in December 2011; to the present, the Math Rock Team did not let a little voice in respect of the band. 
Thus, along with discussion about Post and Math Rock in this beautiful thread, might not hurt if you get listen a few songs from Casse Brique. 
Thank you in advance.
They were ignored by previous members of the team. We have an entirely new team now who will not ignore a single suggestion. They are in our queue and we're getting to them. Have faith in us, we have gotten to almost all of your four million suggestions in the past. Wink
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Points: 16952 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 02:24
Originally posted by Utnapishtim Utnapishtim wrote:

I've listened my first Post Rock/Math Rock this year. The album was Random Avenger by Magyar Posse. Without doubts an example of creative genius and sounds that remains easily in mind.
I repeat I'm not an expert but I thought that this genre was found here for the many similarities with Pink Floyd music. Certainly a good discovered that I want to explore.

That's a great record, really unique imo. Kind of flows into one big song in a way with the usage of repetition. 

Very memorable keyboard lines and vocals, they get stuck in my head after every listen. LOL



... though my favorite is Popzag! 


Edited by Horizons - January 04 2014 at 02:27
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Points: 65690 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 02:34
Originally posted by The Truth The Truth wrote:

 
They were ignored by previous members of the team. We have an entirely new team now who will not ignore a single suggestion. They are in our queue and we're getting to them. Have faith in us, we have gotten to almost all of your four million suggestions in the past. Wink

Considering that team was largely responsible for the very existence of a Mathrock genre at PA, "ignored" is an unfortunate way to describe it.   If want to slur a team, be sure that's what your intention is.
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Points: 21795 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 02:37
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by The Truth The Truth wrote:

 
They were ignored by previous members of the team. We have an entirely new team now who will not ignore a single suggestion. They are in our queue and we're getting to them. Have faith in us, we have gotten to almost all of your four million suggestions in the past. Wink

Considering that team was largely responsible for the very existence of a Mathrock genre at PA, "ignored" is an unfortunate way to describe it.   If want to slur a team, be sure that's what your intention is.



That was a bit harsh, I just meant to say that his suggestion won't be ignored. Not meaning to slur anyone.Embarrassed Besides, the suggestion was not too long ago when the team was in a transition period.
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Points: 16952 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 02:39

It'll all be done evaluated soon anyway - the team has new life and work is getting done. There are just more in line, understand that Sven. 


Edited by Horizons - January 04 2014 at 02:39
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Points: 65690 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 02:44
Originally posted by The Truth The Truth wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by The Truth The Truth wrote:

 
They were ignored by previous members of the team. We have an entirely new team now who will not ignore a single suggestion. They are in our queue and we're getting to them. Have faith in us, we have gotten to almost all of your four million suggestions in the past. Wink

Considering that team was largely responsible for the very existence of a Mathrock genre at PA, "ignored" is an unfortunate way to describe it.   If want to slur a team, be sure that's what your intention is.
That was a bit harsh, I just meant to say that his suggestion won't be ignored. Not meaning to slur anyone.Embarrassed Besides, the suggestion was not too long ago when the team was in a transition period.

Oh it's "harsh" is it.   Then next time think about what you say and how your saying it.
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Points: 21795 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 02:46
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by The Truth The Truth wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by The Truth The Truth wrote:

 
They were ignored by previous members of the team. We have an entirely new team now who will not ignore a single suggestion. They are in our queue and we're getting to them. Have faith in us, we have gotten to almost all of your four million suggestions in the past. Wink

Considering that team was largely responsible for the very existence of a Mathrock genre at PA, "ignored" is an unfortunate way to describe it.   If want to slur a team, be sure that's what your intention is.
That was a bit harsh, I just meant to say that his suggestion won't be ignored. Not meaning to slur anyone.Embarrassed Besides, the suggestion was not too long ago when the team was in a transition period.

Oh it's "harsh" is it.   Then next time think about what you say and how your saying it.

I'm very sorry. Disapprove
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Points: 65690 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 02:51
Thank you.   I and all past Math teamers appreciate it.
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Points: 12 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 04:06
Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:

[QUOTE=dr wu23]Hopefully you'll posts your thoughts on any other albums/artists you hear. A nice place to start if you liked those would be possibly Bones in the Soil, Rust in the Oil by Pretend. 
Clean tones, dynamic, jazz influences here and there, mathy guitar lines. Great album. 
]


This is a lovely track. The drums are fantastic. Being something of an old geezer and making old Geezer associations I think  it kind of has a sort of Cocteau Twins vibe going on. But I'm not much up on the whole scene.
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Points: 6451 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 06:16
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

I'm still not convinced the two subgenres are related at all.


I just woke up. I'll get back to you on that.

ETA: Ok, I'm awake now and can think straight(er).

Post/Math is the only sub on PA that has a connection to alternative/indie rock. There are some alt/indie oriented artists in both Crossover and Psyche/Space but Post/Math is the only sub where the majority of artists have any alt/indie connection (the same way artists in the three metal subs have a connection to the metal world). Outside PA both Post and Math get lumped together and some bands get both labels. Don Caballero is regarded as the "math rock" band but they were one of the first bands to be labelled "post rock"...the term "math rock" didn't exist yet. You could say every 'math' band is PA worthy but that's not the case with every 'post' band. Stereolab were one of the first groups to be labelled "post rock" and one of the most popular; however, even though they have a Krautrock influence, their music is generally too much in the dream pop/lounge pop area to be considered PA worthy. Also, some bands regarded as "post metal" here on PA like Isis and Pelican are considered "post rock" elsewhere.

The original post and math bands had similar influences and backgrounds. "Post rock" was a term applied to different bands with very different sounds; "Math rock" was used for bands who did have somewhat of a similar style. There is no 'post rock' sound (even if dozens of bands sound exactly like each other), while stereotypical 'math rock' sounds like a cross between '80s Crimson, post-hardcore and Captain Beefheart. There are both post and math bands who have a fusion influence, in 'post' it's more of the Herbie Hancock/Weather Report variety while in 'math' it's more of the Mahavishnu Orchestra/Return To Forever variety. In reality, neither is a real genre of rock music (the same way "progressive rock" was not a real genre; some of you will lose sleep over that...you're welcome). "Progressive rock", "post-rock" and "math rock" are just adjectives that got turned into nouns. If you ask your average member of a 'prog', 'post' or 'math' band what kind of music they play, they will most likely tell you 'experimental rock'.

Just like a lot of the prog bands from the 1970s did not like being referred to as "progressive rock" so too did a lot of post and math bands not enjoy the labels they got. Here's some notable quotables:

I couldn't help but start my interview with Tortoise drummer John Herndon by asking him to guess the name of this blog. "I can't answer that. I'm not going to say Post Rock," he said. So that got things off to a great start.

Of all the terrible microgenre names, that has got to be one of the least exciting ones to be branded with, doesn't it?
It's something that we've been trying to [expletive] crawl out from under since some jackass pinned it on us.

(John Herndon of Tortoise)

So, does that make Tortoise "post-rock"?

"It doesn't annoy me or anything," says Dan Bitney, who talks a bit like comedian Steven Wright, "except for, the accumulation of minutes I've spent talking about it in my life, I probably could have made a great painting or something in that amount of time.

"Most of us were rock musicians or whatever, then we flipped it," he adds. "But like when I go through customs at the airport if they asked me what type of music I play, I would never say 'post-rock.' They would be like, 'Um, you're going to need to describe what that means.' "

(Dan Bitney of Tortoise)

"I think for a time, we probably rejected [being called post-rock]," Explosions in the Sky bassist Michael James tells the Scene during a break in the band's tour. "After a while, I think we sort of came to accept that nobody's denigrating you by calling you a post-rock band, it's just a very easy reference. That's all it is."

(Michael James of Explosions In The Sky)

Because you’re instrumental, people tend to unfortunately lump you into that whole post rock genre which is normally quite samey, with little reinvention. How do you feel about being grouped with bands like that?

Dave: If people choose to use that term that’s fine. You’ve got to classify music somehow so it doesn’t really bother me. Whether I agree with it or not doesn’t matter. We don’t try to be post rock and we didn’t really think about it until recently we heard a lot of people tell us we were. We didn’t even know what post rock was until Cliff from Red Sparowes and Isis said “this is what it is” and we thought “I guess this is right?”

(Dave Turncrantz of Russian Circles)

Mogwai tend to get lumped in with bands described as “post-rock” or “math-rock,” but you don’t come across as mathy at all, rather very instinctive and free. Does that bother you?

I don’t think we are very mathy, no. Even when we do something unusual with timing or something, it has to sound natural. Otherwise, you’ve failed. It’s like, if you’re making a film and it’s really obvious when the special effects come in, then you’ve failed.

(Stuart Braithwaite of Mogwai)

Do you feel like you get lumped into genres you don't feel like you belong in?


The short answer to that is yes, but really I don't care. We get lumped into the whole math rock thing a lot. My whole thing with that is when someone says, "You guys would go really go with this band," if I go check out that band, it just happens to be the kind of thing where I don't see the correlation between the two. If we're talking math rock bands, it might be a band who is really really clean, not a lot of dynamics, this stop-and-start thing going on.


(Nick Reinhart of Tera Melos)


Battles: "We're Not Math Rock"


http://www.gigwise.com/news/30503/Battles-Were-Not-Math-Rock



Edited by zravkapt - January 04 2014 at 13:22
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