Post Rock and Math Rock
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Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=96560
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Topic: Post Rock and Math Rock
Posted By: Horizons
Subject: Post Rock and Math Rock
Date Posted: January 03 2014 at 22:51
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Hello, i just wanted to get a discussion possibly about one of my favorite genres that takes much of my listening.
Both genres are very expansive and differ greatly from each other but are mixed constantly. I can understand why some people can dislike these genres. But i was curious what are the personal reasoning for some people's dislike or disinterest in these genres. On the flip side i feel like both genres bring a lot to the table. Math rock incorporates a lot of punk influences so the energy can sometimes be endless. I also love more intricate rhythms and more clean tones, which are used a lot - especially drum wise. I mean who hates grooves?  Some personal hidden gems of each genre, in my opinion, is Sgt's Stylus Fantasticus and Like Bells' s/t album. Both actually feature a violin player, which is interesting to hear. I'd like to avoid making this simply a thread with lists but posting favorites is never discouraged.  ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Replies:
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: January 03 2014 at 23:20
I think you have a convert to 'post rock/math rock' if they all sound like those 2 bands.....nice melodic fusion stuff which sounds more like mellow fusion meets eclectic than any other new genre to me.
I'll ck out your other suggestions on the subgenre thread
 ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: January 03 2014 at 23:53
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I am quite a fan, as my title might suggest.
Currently indulging in this: But yes, the genres are just so emotive and can really make the mind go wonderful places. To me, it is the most addictive music because it is just so pleasant on the ears. Even the noisier stuff. I feel like everyone could learn to like it if they sat back and let it take them places, but I know it can be easy to grow impatient with. Especially stuff by Godspeed You! Black Emperor and the like. But yes, I highly recommend it to everyone. Another favorite: ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 00:29
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http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=83775" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=83775 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=94978" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=94978 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=94977" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=94977 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=89464" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=89464 nuff said |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 00:31
I'm glad you posted and i'm very glad you liked what you heard. Hopefully you'll posts your thoughts on any other albums/artists you hear. A nice place to start if you liked those would be possibly Bones in the Soil, Rust in the Oil by Pretend. Clean tones, dynamic, jazz influences here and there, mathy guitar lines. Great album. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
dr wu23 wrote:Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 00:32
| I'm still not convinced the two subgenres are related at all. |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 01:16
Of course not. Those two genres have nothing in common. Post Rock and Math Rock have been put together here just for practical reasons, methinks; as same as e.g. Experimental Metal and Post Metal are also sticked together. |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 01:36
We'll get to all of your suggestions, no need to bump them in another thread. ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 02:04
Oh yea I need to bump even here because e.g. that Brussels' Math Rock band called Casse Brique was suggested and passed by pre-eval team to your esteemed team in December 2011; to the present, the Math Rock Team did not let a little voice in respect of the band. Thus, along with discussion about Post and Math Rock in this beautiful thread, might not hurt if you get listen a few songs from Casse Brique. Thank you in advance.
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Posted By: Utnapishtim
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 02:07
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I've listened my first Post Rock/Math Rock this year. The album was Random Avenger by Magyar Posse. Without doubts an example of creative genius and sounds that remains easily in mind.
I repeat I'm not an expert but I thought that this genre was found here for the many similarities with Pink Floyd music. Certainly a good discovered that I want to explore.
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Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 02:18
They were ignored by previous members of the team. We have an entirely new team now who will not ignore a single suggestion. They are in our queue and we're getting to them. Have faith in us, we have gotten to almost all of your four million suggestions in the past.  ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 02:24
That's a great record, really unique imo. Kind of flows into one big song in a way with the usage of repetition. Very memorable keyboard lines and vocals, they get stuck in my head after every listen.  ... though my favorite is Popzag!
------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 02:34
Considering that team was largely responsible for the very existence of a Mathrock genre at PA, "ignored" is an unfortunate way to describe it. If want to slur a team, be sure that's what your intention is. |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 02:37
 Besides, the suggestion was not too long ago when the team was in a transition period.------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 02:39
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It'll all be done evaluated soon anyway - the team has new life and work is getting done. There are just more in line, understand that Sven.
------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 02:44
Oh it's "harsh" is it. Then next time think about what you say and how your saying it. |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 02:46
I'm very sorry.  ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 02:51
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Thank you. I and all past Math teamers appreciate it. |
Posted By: steviedee
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 04:06
This is a lovely track. The drums are fantastic. Being something of an old geezer and making old Geezer associations I think it kind of has a sort of Cocteau Twins vibe going on. But I'm not much up on the whole scene. ------------- http://www.abelganz.com" rel="nofollow - Abel Ganz https://www.facebook.com/pages/Abel-Ganz/104282746280548" rel="nofollow - Ganz on Facebook |
Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 06:16
I just woke up. I'll get back to you on that. ETA: Ok, I'm awake now and can think straight(er). Post/Math is the only sub on PA that has a connection to alternative/indie rock. There are some alt/indie oriented artists in both Crossover and Psyche/Space but Post/Math is the only sub where the majority of artists have any alt/indie connection (the same way artists in the three metal subs have a connection to the metal world). Outside PA both Post and Math get lumped together and some bands get both labels. Don Caballero is regarded as the "math rock" band but they were one of the first bands to be labelled "post rock"...the term "math rock" didn't exist yet. You could say every 'math' band is PA worthy but that's not the case with every 'post' band. Stereolab were one of the first groups to be labelled "post rock" and one of the most popular; however, even though they have a Krautrock influence, their music is generally too much in the dream pop/lounge pop area to be considered PA worthy. Also, some bands regarded as "post metal" here on PA like Isis and Pelican are considered "post rock" elsewhere. The original post and math bands had similar influences and backgrounds. "Post rock" was a term applied to different bands with very different sounds; "Math rock" was used for bands who did have somewhat of a similar style. There is no 'post rock' sound (even if dozens of bands sound exactly like each other), while stereotypical 'math rock' sounds like a cross between '80s Crimson, post-hardcore and Captain Beefheart. There are both post and math bands who have a fusion influence, in 'post' it's more of the Herbie Hancock/Weather Report variety while in 'math' it's more of the Mahavishnu Orchestra/Return To Forever variety. In reality, neither is a real genre of rock music (the same way "progressive rock" was not a real genre; some of you will lose sleep over that...you're welcome). "Progressive rock", "post-rock" and "math rock" are just adjectives that got turned into nouns. If you ask your average member of a 'prog', 'post' or 'math' band what kind of music they play, they will most likely tell you 'experimental rock'. Just like a lot of the prog bands from the 1970s did not like being referred to as "progressive rock" so too did a lot of post and math bands not enjoy the labels they got. Here's some notable quotables: I couldn't help but start my interview with Tortoise drummer John Herndon by asking him to guess the name of this blog. "I can't answer that. I'm not going to say Post Rock," he said. So that got things off to a great start. Of all the terrible microgenre names, that has got to be one of the least exciting ones to be branded with, doesn't it? It's something that we've been trying to [expletive] crawl out from under since some jackass pinned it on us. (John Herndon of Tortoise) So, does that make Tortoise "post-rock"? "It doesn't annoy me or anything," says Dan Bitney, who talks a bit like comedian Steven Wright, "except for, the accumulation of minutes I've spent talking about it in my life, I probably could have made a great painting or something in that amount of time. "Most of us were rock musicians or whatever, then we flipped it," he adds. "But like when I go through customs at the airport if they asked me what type of music I play, I would never say 'post-rock.' They would be like, 'Um, you're going to need to describe what that means.' " (Dan Bitney of Tortoise) "I think for a time, we probably rejected [being called post-rock]," Explosions in the Sky bassist Michael James tells the Scene during a break in the band's tour. "After a while, I think we sort of came to accept that nobody's denigrating you by calling you a post-rock band, it's just a very easy reference. That's all it is." (Michael James of Explosions In The Sky) (Dave Turncrantz of Russian Circles) I don’t think we are very mathy, no. Even when we do something unusual with timing or something, it has to sound natural. Otherwise, you’ve failed. It’s like, if you’re making a film and it’s really obvious when the special effects come in, then you’ve failed. (Stuart Braithwaite of Mogwai) The short answer to that is yes, but really I don't care. We get lumped into the whole math rock thing a lot. My whole thing with that is when someone says, "You guys would go really go with this band," if I go check out that band, it just happens to be the kind of thing where I don't see the correlation between the two. If we're talking math rock bands, it might be a band who is really really clean, not a lot of dynamics, this stop-and-start thing going on. (Nick Reinhart of Tera Melos) Battles: "We're Not Math Rock" http://www.gigwise.com/news/30503/Battles-Were-Not-Math-Rock" rel="nofollow - http://www.gigwise.com/news/30503/Battles-Were-Not-Math-Rock ------------- Magma America Great Make Again |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 12:02
Thanks, the drumming part of Math-Rock is one of the key reasons i love the genre so much! Being one myself ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 12:19
Excellently said, I was going to say roughly the same thing in half as many words with not nearly the degree of alacrity.  Post and Math are connected - but perhaps in not such an obvious way as say progressive metal and tech/extreme prog metal. They stem from the same influences and have the same musical origins. In many cases, bands will mix the post and math rock sound. It'd be incredibly difficult to separate the two genres for this reason. ------------- http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 13:06
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Here's a rarely mentioned band that I absolutely love. Sioum is a
great mix of harder, almost post-metal style, along with the more
"ambient" post-rock sound. This track is one of the heavier, more
rocking ones. Shift Hear the full album, I Am Mortal, But Was Fiend, here: http://sioum.bandcamp.com/album/i-am-mortal-but-was-fiend" rel="nofollow - http://sioum.bandcamp.com/album/i-am-mortal-but-was-fiend . And how about some jazzy, mathy, post-rock delight? Try Tangled Thoughts Of Leaving: Throw Us To The Wind ...And Sever Us From The Present Hear the full album, Deaden The Fields, here: http://music.tangledthoughtsofleaving.com/album/deaden-the-fields" rel="nofollow - http://music.tangledthoughtsofleaving.com/album/deaden-the-fields . As for math rock itself, I don't have much of it. Here's all the ones I own, I believe: And So I Watch You From Afar - Gangs Battles - Mirrored Don Caballero - American Don Maserati - Pyramid Of The Sun Maserati - VII This Town Needs Guns - 13.0.0.0.0 Probably like Pyramid Of The Sun the most, but I dare say its the least "mathy" of the above list. Much of the mathy stuff strikes me as a bit "cold". And TTNG is too "pop" oriented. Gangs is pretty good. Are these math rock? Wikipedia says so, but I don't hear it as much. More post-rock, and preferred by me to any of the above: Slint - Tweez Slint - Spiderland Russian Circles - Empros I'm going to check out Giraffes? Giraffes! - Pink Magick right now. ------------- -- Frank Swarbrick Belief is not Truth. |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 13:12
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I'm liking the Sioum stuff - thanks. More like Russian Circles' later stuff. Russian Circles is a weird case, Empros has the most MR and Post-Rock influences of their discography but in general they have a more post-metal sound and aren't that mathy. Also for Giraffes? Giraffes!, i'd start with More Skin For Milk Mouth - it's better in my opinion. I Am Shimmer is one of my favorite MR tracks. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 13:15
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The more ambient stuff is always some of my favorite, like Hammock or The American Dollar:
------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 13:40
I don't recall Maserati ever being called math rock, but they have been called space rock by some. Their first album is almost stereotypical post rock from the 2000s. After that they got their groove on, but unfortunately they stayed there and the following albums pretty much sound the same. Slint is a weird case. Here in Prog Related, they were an influence on both but don't really sound like either. ------------- Magma America Great Make Again |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 13:49
I struggle to try to explain this
------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 13:52
The sound was not posty or mathy but my best guess (and it is a guess) is that the songwriting structure was similar. I would have to listen to Spiderland again but I seem to remember it being like some kind of indie-rock classical music only the alt-rock vibe was overwhelming. That doesn't really explain it either. ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 14:13
| I'll be dropping in here time to time for new music to listen to. My knowledge of post rock and math rock is rudimentary at best, but I've liked most of the stuff I've heard. Sigur Ros and Battles are favorites of mine (although I didn't like Gloss Drop a whole lot). |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 14:15
I'm surprised you haven't listened to them yet, I Am Mortal... has been free on bandcamp for ages |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 14:20
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zravkapt mentioned that "post-rock" was originally made up by reviewers to lump together very disparate music styles and subcultures, most of whom rejected the categorization... wouldn't surprise me if "math rock" is the same way. Always thought that referred to the more technical and musically deconstructionist hardcore punk bands like Dillinger Escape Plan or Shellac. (whom I'm not sure call their own music that either) ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 14:22
Too many things  ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 14:27
IIRC it's one of the albums linked after downloading Part The Second, that's where I heard of it first |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 14:30
I downloaded Part the Second so long ago, I didn't remember it was a bandcamp download. ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 19:30
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It's not, I am thinking of a different album but it entirely escapes me which one. Something everybody has, anyway. |
Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: January 04 2014 at 19:46
Dillinger is mathcore, which is math rock fused with extreme hardcore punk and metalcore. ------------- http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: January 05 2014 at 09:33
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Since this is an appreciation thread I might as well post some vids of some of my faves from this sub some may not know of/may be interested in.
One of my current 'post' faves: One of my current 'math' faves: A trio that can fit into both (with a strong electronic element): ------------- Magma America Great Make Again |
Posted By: A Smart Kid
Date Posted: January 06 2014 at 19:58
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Just in case no one has heard it yet. Who needs black metal when you can make post rock this good? [flash]http://www.youtube.com/v/9wxZ1DV9xO4[/flash]
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Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: January 07 2014 at 04:25
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Because black metal and post-rock are made to fulfil completely different creative purposes and emotional needs? The latter might be much further up in the "high culture/low culture" hierarchy, but that does not make it objectively better. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: January 07 2014 at 15:17
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Been listening to a lot of this type of music as of late. Jakob, Ef, Grails, Mono, Collapse Under the Empire, Long Distance Calling, Pg.lost are some artists I've enjoyed. I usually listen to stations on Spotify (now also trying Google Music) to get more exposure.
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Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: January 07 2014 at 15:26
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Hey Pat, check these guys out
http://asinwe.bandcamp.com/album/as-above-so-below-2" rel="nofollow - http://asinwe.bandcamp.com/album/as-above-so-below-2 Not many YouTube vids but one of my favorite finds right now. Kind of mathy, kind of post-rock, kind of metal, mmm so good. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 15:36
Hey thanks for this! Really good stuff.
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Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 20:20
No problem if it was on PA (being eval'd) i'd have it on my Top 10 Collab List :] This is what i love about the PR/MR genre - the smooth transitions in structures and compositions. It's like water being poured into numerous vases, one after the other. I've also decided that my current al-time favorite MR/PR record is by the brilliant Pretend. Their record, Bones in the Soil, Rust in the Oil, has the jazzy fluidity i spoke of along with great guitar lines. It also has these dissonant moments where it's almost avant sounding. And more better, it has a light touch of that emo post-rock stylings like Youth Pictures of Florence Henderdon's second record. Highly recommended - obviously  ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: January 13 2014 at 23:27
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For Dr.Wu And anyone else ;] My favorite song from one of my most beloved bands. The lyrics influenced my writing quite a bit recently.
------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: PhideauxFan
Date Posted: February 26 2014 at 07:28
Since 2010, I have discovered many good bands of post-rock: My Education, Sleepmakeswaves, Autumn Moonlight, Tangled Thoughts Of Leaving, The Allstar Project, Solkyri, Sky Architects, Maserati, If These Trees Could Talk, Collapse Under The Empire, Dorena, Caspian, Edelveiss, EF, I Am The Architect. 
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Posted By: Ruralfaune
Date Posted: March 01 2014 at 12:38
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any fan of Eternal Tapestry ? ------------- http://ruralfaune.blogspot.com |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: July 17 2014 at 10:32
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One for the Don Cab fans, an early live recording: http://chunklet.bandcamp.com/album/five-pairs-of-crazy-pants-wear-em ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: July 17 2014 at 11:36
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Some math rock. http://zefschasingcara.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://zefschasingcara.bandcamp.com/ |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: July 17 2014 at 15:08
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Back to the original question: for me, the reason why I don't listen to so much of Post/Math is the sheer overlap between so many artists that seem that they are playing exactly the same thing. Yes, I know there will be many that won't (possibly already in this thread) but it's that first impression... Saying that, Oceansize is a band I like very much (but I think they are split now?) Anyway, please keep educating us and I might just fing a band I really like  |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: January 15 2015 at 13:39
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Bringing my baby back from the deeps. To answer Aapatsos, sure there are going to be overlap in similar styles in a somewhat defined sounding genre. Just like other genres here. It's not a problem, it is just when you overstate the similarities within the genres that i speak up. If you like Oceansize, a more alternative rock band with posty/psych influences you may want to try out Handlingnoise. http://handlingnoise.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://handlingnoise.bandcamp.com/ Their album is free for download there and is a really high-quality release. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: pavlston
Date Posted: February 13 2015 at 18:42
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can you please define me genre of this band? :O https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jkw3LZHoAg" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jkw3LZHoAg
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Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: February 13 2015 at 18:47
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I would say alternative metal. Not sure how they could consider themselves post rock. ------------- http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: pavlston
Date Posted: February 13 2015 at 18:55
| Thanks Andy , I thought it was part of the 3:00 kind of post rock , i dont know , the band is on the rise , so I could not define the genre, thanks friend :) |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: February 15 2015 at 08:14
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Check out Sumac, a new supergroup http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=101326" rel="nofollow - I submitted to PA a while ago . They share a member with Russian Circles and their songwriting style is somewhat similar especially in the faster parts, it's just filtered through a Godflesh-like industrial aesthetic which results in a rather different impression. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: February 15 2015 at 10:47
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Makes sense that Brian is the member from RC. He is a monster and is the one that really brings the weight of metal to RC. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: February 15 2015 at 15:13
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I thought he was more of a hardcore punk guy? Sumac's drummer is from a crust punk band by the way, maybe the industrial influence is just Killing Joke by way of Amebix... ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: April 05 2018 at 13:17
This is a beautiful album, Posties...give it a try some fine evening.  |