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sigod

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Joined: September 17 2004
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Topic: A Map Of Prog
Posted: July 05 2005 at 10:33

I saw this and thought of you all.

I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill

JrKASperov View Drop Down

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Posted: July 05 2005 at 12:42

Brings a tear to me eye it does...

Epic.

BaldFriede View Drop Down

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Posted: July 05 2005 at 12:49

I tried to create a prog family-tree once and gave up. Way too many cross-references; it became a blur of lines.

BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.

Cygnus X-2 View Drop Down

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Posted: July 05 2005 at 13:17

kingofbizzare View Drop Down

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Posted: July 05 2005 at 17:26

I wish it was a little bigger so I could read all of it... oh well, I get the gist of it.

NetsNJFan

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Posted: July 05 2005 at 17:27

yea i have also come across that site amongst my internet travels.

Cluster One View Drop Down

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Posted: July 05 2005 at 17:41

At least the author spelled Dream Theatre correctly

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stonebeard View Drop Down

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Posted: July 05 2005 at 22:47

i guess it's prog as a general format. only the basics. i'm sure the lines aren't so clear and there's a lot of blurring going on. But I like looking at it. gives me a sense of direction.

Just a couple of things:

1. Gentle Giant and others are under the "Canturbury" subcategory. What does this subcategory indicate?

2. Styx a prog band. I don't care if it's under the "pomp/pop prog" subcategory. They aren't prog. At least they aren't on the same level as Rush. Not saying that subcategoris indicate equality beteween artists, but still...

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Hierophant View Drop Down

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Posted: July 06 2005 at 04:16

Fusion dosn't come out of prog. It came out of Miles Davis. Aka Jazz.

MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down

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Posted: July 06 2005 at 04:32

Hierophant wrote:

Fusion dosn't come out of prog. It came out of Miles Davis. Aka Jazz.

It's a different kind of Fusion (Jazz-Fusion vs. Canterbury influenced "Prog-Fusion").

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GoldenSpiral View Drop Down

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Posted: July 06 2005 at 09:35

Excellent. I want to frame it and put it on the wall.

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Dick Heath View Drop Down

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Posted: July 06 2005 at 10:39

Hierophant wrote:

Fusion dosn't come out of prog. It came out of Miles Davis. Aka Jazz.

How many more times - no it does - Miles Davis popularised it: Tony Williams, Charles Lloyd, Brecker Brothers, Larry Coryell, etc. got in first. Read Stuart Nicholson: Jazz Rock A History for the facts and chronology. Some 'jazz rock fusion' came out of jazz musicians interest in rock rhythms and amplification, and some out of rock musicians who loved jazz and wanted to incorporate it into their rock music. And there is a lot of 'fusion' that has nothing to do with rock.

Dick Heath View Drop Down

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Posted: July 06 2005 at 10:43

Sigod

Thanks for reminding me of the Lucky brave attempt of relating the genre. Record Collector, about 15 months ago, when dealing with prog rock, attempted to illustrate prog asa planetary system, with satellite moons orbiting each planet - didn't work particulary well. Personally I think some of modern software used in mechanical modelling in 3D, which allows links to 4th and 5th levels might be used to provide the relationships/differences.

sigod

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Posted: July 06 2005 at 12:04

DH

It's never going to be a complete map (sadly not many non-British bands listed) but I think it's a good attempt at describing what is a very complex genre. The record collector map sound interesting, do you know if there is a copy of it on line?

Pete Frame (famous for his rock family trees) is also worth a look for this kind of band links (although he does his through the personnel rather than music style.

Speaking of family trees, I found this about Trevor Rabin and the bands he's playing through his career.

Edited by sigod

I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill

BaldJean

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Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
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Points: 10387

Posted: July 06 2005 at 13:18

stonebeard wrote:

i guess it's prog as a general format. only the basics. i'm sure the lines aren't so clear and there's a lot of blurring going on. But I like looking at it. gives me a sense of direction.

Just a couple of things:

1. Gentle Giant and others are under the "Canturbury" subcategory. What does this subcategory indicate?

Of Styx I only know their second album. It is doubtlessly prog, though only mainstream and not very interesting IMHO.
Putting Gentle Giant under "Canterbury" is a little far-fetched. Trouserpress, for whom Gentle Giant are the houseband, will certainly wrinkle his eyebrows. Canterbury denominates more a group of musicians than a specific style and is very closely associated with RIO (rock in opposition); though there have been explcite founding members of RIO I'd say that the borderline between Canterbury and RIO is at least a fuzzy one.
An excellent site about Canterbury is this one: http://calyx.club.fr/index.html . Note that this site does NOT list Gentle Giant!

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The Hemulen View Drop Down

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Posted: July 06 2005 at 13:41

BaldJean wrote:

stonebeard wrote:

i guess it's prog as a general format. only the basics. i'm sure the lines aren't so clear and there's a lot of blurring going on. But I like looking at it. gives me a sense of direction.

Just a couple of things:

1. Gentle Giant and others are under the "Canturbury" subcategory. What does this subcategory indicate?

My eyebrows did indeed ripple inquisitively when I noticed that one (I'm a huge Canterbury fan too, let us not forget). GG are a hard one to pin down - they never recorded an "epic" and had little time for a lot of the pomp associated with symphonic prog, but they were hardly part of the Canterbury scene. It's probably easiest to refer to them as symphonic prog, but I've actually seen websites who list "Gentle Giant Influenced" as a subgenre in its own right! Still, this family tree is an excellent little thing and a fine achievement! Now, how about a COMPREHENSIVE one?

The mind boggles!

BaldJean

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Posted: July 06 2005 at 15:12

Hey, Trousie, I see you are exploring Guru Guru. A good thing; excellent band that went through many many different styles. It would be helpful though if you understood some German, because some of the humor of them is lost for you else. Sometimes (very rarely though, thanks God) they use the Bavarian dialect, and since I am American by birth even I am stranded then, though my German is excellent meanwhile; fortunately my wife Friede understands that dialect pretty well. If you have any questions about the lyrics just ask Friede or me.

A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta

DallasBryan View Drop Down

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Posted: July 07 2005 at 01:53

you know me, shrink the Canterbury and enlarge the
Space Rock Electronic, give the europeans the credit
they are due. Pink Floyd and Tangerine Dream
represent the spirit behind the whole movement!

of course with a nod to
The Moody Blues
Genesis
Yes
Jethro Tull
ELP
Focus
Samla Mammas Manna
Clearlight
Lard Free
Ange
Atila
Klaus Schulze
Schicke, Fuhrs & Froeling
Ashra
Cluster
Picchio dal Pozzo
PFM
Banco
Vangelis
Frank Zappa
Kansas
Synergy

Edited by DallasBryan

kingwingding View Drop Down

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