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Topic ClosedJethro Tull: hopeless devotion or hatred

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American Khatru View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Jethro Tull: hopeless devotion or hatred
    Posted: May 16 2009 at 07:39
Hey all.  I recently made a new friend with whom I can talk endlessly about prog, which of course is a real joy in life.  I got around to bringing up Tull and he just went feh!, categorically hates them.  I didn't push it since this is a new friend, plus his hatred was so visceral I'd probably have no shot at persuading him otherwise, or even convincing him to give them a fair shot (maybe after a while, but probably not).

I've noticed this with other people too and this band.  Now as for me, I'm what you might call a hopeless fan.  Often times I can't even see the criticisms.  That's because I've been listening to them since I can remember; my older brother's record collection is to blame.  Throughout the 70's I listened a lot, religiously at points, to every Tull album he had, namely Stand Up, Benefit, Aqualung, Living In The Past, Thick As A Brick, Passion Play, Minstrel In The Gallery, and Songs From The Wood.  (TaaB, Passion and Wood would in time shake out as my top favorites.)  Along came the paper route and I bought Heavy Horses and Stormwatch, and a friend taped Too Old for me (didn't like that one much).  I bought 'A' right when it came out too, and that right there is the proof that I'm hopeless.  Can somebody else tell me they love that particular album too?, because I just listened to it yesterday; I haven't met anyone who likes that album, let alone a person who likes it as much as I do.  I just listened to it yesterday, and when I look at my play counts in iTunes I have to say it is way up there.  I might just be Wacko or a Clown, or both rolled into one immense Geek.  (Okay, enough of the faces...)

Back to my new friend: he hates them.  And it's, well, basically because Ian Anderson can apparently be a real, er, doosh.  Now, I had no way of knowing this when I was a kid (except maybe the lyrics!; but music was my main thing, and being a prog fan one abides silly lyrics, lying in wait for the gems).  No internet or any of that, I was just hearing this great effort-filled music and was swept away by it.  My friend didn't grow up on it, and feels certain that he'll never fully appreciate them because of this almost reptilian level of dislike, the sort of thing that no one but a great psychologist could possibly disabuse one of (and the same probably goes for my blind love).

Not long ago I got the CD of TaaB with the bonus tracks.  At points he comes off like a jerk I guess, but mostly sounds to me like a man knowing what he meant.  But of course, nothing embarrassing to hime was about to be put on a Tull CD as a bonus track.  I do think I recall that he has, here and there in interwiews and whatever, derided the idea of concept albums, or otherwise been considered an ass.  Is it fair to say that the figure of Anderson is what gets in the way of appreciation of Tull's music?  Is it the flute, the voice, the man, the codpiece, all of it?  Something else?  Share your proofs, with links if you got 'em.  Thoughts?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 07:57
I have got the same CD, and have listened to that interview. However, I don't think in the least that Ian Anderson comes across as an ass. As big as a prog fan as I am (and I started listening to prog when I was about 11 years old), I have to honestly admit that not all concept albums can be called successful, either in musical or lyrical terms, and that some bands in the Seventies were taking things a bit too far. Moreover, I don't really think Ian was 'deriding' the idea - certainly not in the way the mainstream critics were. Parody has always been present in the arts, and it  often comes from within a genre or movement, rather than from outside it.

Ian Anderson is definitely a strong personality, with some undeniably abrasive traits. However, the fact that he has remained on good terms with most of the musicians he played with (something that can hardly be said of other musicians, who have alienated people left, right and centre) proves that he's not such a horrible human being as some would like to portray him. He's also one hell of a great songwriter and lyricist, and - last but not least - a big cat fanHeart. I really don't understand how he could give rise to such hatred in people like your friend - but heck, we're all different, aren't we?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 08:08
Yeah I guess I was being political or something when I said "comes off like a jerk I guess."  I'm saying this is what some people say who've also heard it.  But me, I don't really think so.  He sounds like a composer if anything; call that pretentious and you insult high musical art.  But what do I know...

As for my mention of 'derision', you can see that I didn't say it was in that interview.  It's something I swear I remember either hearing myself, or someone said he said.


Edited by American Khatru - May 16 2009 at 08:12
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 08:34
Ian freely admits that TAAB was done as a farce because of the critics saying that Aqualung was a concept album. Just listen to the tongue-cheek lyrics. Every concert I have seen him perform it at, he always introduces it sneeringly, deriding the concept of progressive music. Is it any wonder that some prog fans may find this annoying.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 08:41
I've seen and/or heard a few Ian interviews and nothing gave me the impression he was a douche. LOL
The notorious Genesis three have come across that way in interviews.

I'm not really hopelessly devoted to Tull though I am certainly a big fan.


Edited by Slartibartfast - May 16 2009 at 08:52
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 09:05
I am somewhere inbetween. While I think Tull are at their best when it comes to a mixture of folk and rock, I can not find anything interesting about the albums considered more "progressive". The album Aqualung totally fails to impress me, TAAB has some good moments, so has A Passion Play. But if you ask me, Songs from the Wood, The Broadsword & The Beast (not that much folk in there, I have to admit) and maybe Heavy Horses are my favourite Tull records, also some "older" folky tunes.
To make it short: I think Anderson's voice and flute don't fit progressive rock as well as folk rock.

Just for the record and the topic: I used to hate Jethro Tull.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 13:45
I've never thought of Tull as being that clinically devisive before.
 
I LOVE TAAB ,Aqualung, This Was, Stand Up and lots of tracks from others, but there's a fair bit around that I mildly dislike.
 
Has the OP's friend heard everything or just making a blanket judgement based on hearing a few bits and pieces? Even I haven't heard everything and I'm positively ancientSmile
It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 14:26
Originally posted by el dingo el dingo wrote:

Has the OP's friend heard everything or just making a blanket judgement based on hearing a few bits and pieces?  Even I haven't heard everything and I'm positively ancientSmile


Good question - I didn't ask.  It was a real shut-down moment.  I'll ask him next time I see him.  Even so, and maybe some of you out there will identify with this with regard to other bands, if his hatred is really of the deep and ingrained kind, even TAAB might not stand a chance.

Just thought of something.  He has a little daughter.  Perhaps the kid is too young still, but someday she should hear the story of the hare who lost his spectacles (sniff)!



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 14:35
I know exactly what you mean about a kind of blind loyalty to a certain artist - in this case Tull - and I even wrote a review about exactly that;

http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=197109



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 15:00
I have loved Tull's music for many years, especially their folkier side. It is absolutely true that TAAB was penned originally as a massive piss take of the music press and scene of the time, but it was done in such a loving way that I can't really find it in me to criticise. 
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 15:56
Just read your review Atav, very nice job and very well stated.  I think I'm going to have to get that record Smile.

Lazland, succinctly said.  I agree entirely.  We have something here: I learn in the course of life that TAAB was a huge poke at the press and I see it as just another level added to a monumental work, the farce deepened; another person, not well disposed toward our codpieced piper, might hear the same thing and think, yeah that guy's a self-important ass.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 20:28

Tull are the ultimate band and Ian the ultimate song writer imo. But I happen to find alot of their songs I'm not much of a fan of are the songs they chose to release on albums. I think Tull could produce great songs whenever they felt like it, but they took risks at recording commerical songs for some albums. I'm not really a fan of Side 2 of Aqualung. I find it pretty straight forward and ian sings with an annoying voice, but it's obvious the band were taking risks. If you want to hear Tull doing great stuff in that same year, you just have to look at the EP they released as well as Side 1 of Aqualung. The band must have recorded about 20 songs in 1971, but I believe they released the weakest 5 songs of that year on Aqualung(Side 2). If Ian wasn't looking for a few dollars he probably wouldn't have written commercial tunes. Same with warchild. It's a soundtrack(11 songs) mainly full of commercial tunes, apart from 2 or 3 cool tracks. But the real Tull songs are the 7 bonus tracks. There's enough gems in 1971(12 out of 20 songs) and 1974(10 out of 18 songs) to say to me that half the songs on original Aqualung and Warchild albums were below Tulls standards but mainly written for commercial purposed Wink. I think these 2 albums would be reasons why many prog fans think Tull were overrated. But if they can get a hold of the remasters plus Living in the past, they'll see the band produced plenty of quality folk/prog rock in those 2 years and the original 11 tracks chosen for each album doesn't quite represent the band imo

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 21:22
Not much to add to this thread, other than to tell the OP that I love "A" as well...Smile

In fact, I greatly enjoy almost all of their albums...sorry "Too Old..."

Oh, and J-Tull.com was a bit of a snore...but other than that...


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2009 at 22:47
I saw and enjoyed them on the War Child tour. All the interviews that I have heard with Ian, he comes off as nothing more than a down to earth guy that appreciates what music has given him.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2009 at 02:26
Originally posted by Nipsey88 Nipsey88 wrote:

Not much to add to this thread, other than to tell the OP that I love "A" as well...Smile

In fact, I greatly enjoy almost all of their albums...sorry "Too Old..."

Oh, and J-Tull.com was a bit of a snore...but other than that...
 
I really like A too. But Dotcom is cool Smile
Awol, Wicked windows, Dotcom, Dog ear years, Far Alaska, It all trickles down(outtake) are enough great tunes for me Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2009 at 07:11
More love for 'A'.  Nice to have company. 

Originally posted by PROGMONSTER2008 PROGMONSTER2008 wrote:

If you want to hear Tull doing great stuff in that same year, you just have to look at the EP they released...

I didn't have or know about that EP growing up, but I did have Living in the Past.  And it just so happens that every track on the mentioned EP is a track of which I wore out the grooves on LitP.  Great post well stated.  Agree about Warchild, it's good but I find I don't give it much time.

As for the countless others here who've said what a good man Anderson is, I personally have no reason to disagree (and didn't from the beginning - I may not have made the clear).  I love him, his acerbity and the whole thing.  As for other people disliking him, I guess we can just chalk it up to an old story in the world: strong personalities always get a lot of flack from some quarters, especially during their productive lives; though they may have done little to deserve it, the tiniest flaw, perhaps something not even a flaw in the light of truth, gets blown all out of proportion.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2009 at 06:38
Originally posted by American Khatru American Khatru wrote:

More love for 'A'.  Nice to have company. 

Originally posted by PROGMONSTER2008 PROGMONSTER2008 wrote:

If you want to hear Tull doing great stuff in that same year, you just have to look at the EP they released...

I didn't have or know about that EP growing up, but I did have Living in the Past.  And it just so happens that every track on the mentioned EP is a track of which I wore out the grooves on LitP.  Great post well stated.  Agree about Warchild, it's good but I find I don't give it much time.

As for the countless others here who've said what a good man Anderson is, I personally have no reason to disagree (and didn't from the beginning - I may not have made the clear).  I love him, his acerbity and the whole thing.  As for other people disliking him, I guess we can just chalk it up to an old story in the world: strong personalities always get a lot of flack from some quarters, especially during their productive lives; though they may have done little to deserve it, the tiniest flaw, perhaps something not even a flaw in the light of truth, gets blown all out of proportion.


 
If you haven't got the Warchild remaster you need to get it. You'll almost find an album of tunes you wished Tull released in 1974. The 7 bonus tracks are the type of songs you would expect Tull to record after hearing so much great music from 1971, 72 and 73 with LITP, Aqualung, TAAB and APP. The 7 bonus tracks are mainly better than almsot all the 11 original songs although i love Queen and country and the title track Smile. There are actually about 11 or 12 extras from 1974. March the mad scientist is also from 1974 and there is an improved version of Bungle too. There are 2 unreleased tracks called Beach parts 1 and 2 also. I have links to 8 of the bonus tracks you can download and hear in full if you like. Very quick downloads. I also have a clip of that Bungle tune too


Edited by PROGMONSTER2008 - May 18 2009 at 06:43
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2009 at 15:29
I really love this band. In my book, the "Heavy Horses" album is one of their masterpieces. Here's a more detailed exposition of my feelings toward this album.-
 

“Heavy Horses” is the logical continuation of the solid prog-folk approach delivered in the “Songs From the Wood” album, and what a lovely follow-up it is. The previous release had been an absolute triumph of Jethro Tull’s ever-present folkish side refurbished and manifested at its maximum potential of sophistication, in no small degree due to the tasteful synth layers and orchestrations provided by John Evan and the new 6th member David (now Dee) Palmer. What “Heavy Horses” brings as a source of refreshment for this new pinnacle era of Jethro Tull is the use of more natural orchestral arrangements (real strings), as well as a special guest called Darryl Way (yes, the virtuosos violinist from Curved Air). Evan restricts himself to organ and piano, and the synth input is not as abundant. Maybe the occasional portative pipe organ handled by Palmer has more presence than the synths, but again, the keyboard efforts are properly stated in the mix. All in all, the items that are more recurrently featured in the mix (besides Anderson’s flute) are the interplaying acoustic/electric guitars and the drums: this album indeed comprises some of the best Barlow work ever, and I’m talking about a musician who always knew how to use his percussive mastery for good effect. As in the “Wood” album (and many other songs from the previous Tull catalogue), the consistent topic of the tracklist focuses on rural things, but now the predominant mood is not one of celebration of the reality and fantasy in the village men’s lives: “Heavy Horses” is an overall look at the pros and cons of the life (lovely life, after all) in a farm amidst our modern urban-centered times. ‘… And the Mouse Police Never Sleeps’ is a catchy tune about cats watching for mice in their role of countrymen’s best friends; its playful mood is properly perpetuated in the romancing ‘Acres Wild’ and the candid ‘Moths’. Caught between these colorful songs is the grayish ‘No Lullaby’, full of intense rocking sounds and patently prog-oriented shifts. This song signifies a particular apex for Barre and Barlow as performers. ‘Journeyman’ ends the album’s first half with a featured rhythm section that emulates the driving dynamics of a vehicle with funky-friendly swings that oddly feed the song’s basic blues-rock feel. ‘Rover’ brings back the album’s most candid side with well-ordained flourishes that echo the explicit splendor of “Songs From the Wood”, in this way opening the album’s second half in a very exciting way. ‘One Brown Mouse’ is less ornamented but still displays a similar colorfulness – the rural mood works beautifully. But the source of superior beauty comes with the penultimate track, the namesake one, which IMHO is one of the finest Anderson moments as a writer and a poet. This mini-epic that almost totals a 9 minute span celebrates the ancient power of farm horses while calibrating the negative side brought by tractors and other industrial artifacts. The soft piano-vocal passages, the orchestrations exquisite beyond words, the melodic development of the guitar leads and Way’s violin inputs, the fluid sequences between various moods and time signatures, all of them gather together in a perfectly logical framework that capitalizes the song’s beautiful melodic lines. Epic and magical, with a lovely mixture of melancholy and naivety in the lyrics that make sense with the musical material – ‘Heavy Horses’ is a Top 5 song in JT’s history. The album’s closer ‘Weathercock’ brings back a moment of final optimism to complete the tracklist on a pertinently candid note. This album is a must in any rock collection (prog and not prog), and definitely, a wonderful masterpiece from a band whose heyday was still running on by the late 70s.  



Edited by Cesar Inca - May 20 2009 at 15:30
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2009 at 15:30
Oh, no!  Italics, run away, run away! Tongue
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2009 at 04:45
I'm a bit in between where Tull's concerned. I only really love Locomotive Breath as a song. Aqualung and TaaB are good/very good songs. But I really can't understand the adoration for the band. I mean, of course everyone is allowed to, why not ? But I just can't see the huge class the album TaaB has.
In my review I even stated that the interview was the best part. That was a little harsh and cynical really but I meant by it that I do like the interview and am not blown away by the epics. No more and no less.
And by liking the interview it shows that I have no problem with Andersons personality.
A day without prog is a wasted day
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