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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member
Retired
Joined: March 04 2008
Location: Retirement Home
Status: Offline
Points: 3658
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Topic: 5 stars Posted: November 02 2008 at 10:56 |
Hi. I am sometimes tempted to give an album (for example the PFM - Per Un Amico album) five stars. But then the pop up shows up and I get second thoughts. So four stars, it is then. I also read other reviews and it seems to me like I am sticking to rules I very much respect. I believe very few albums, at most only a dozen albums, deserves five stars. The rest is four to one stars. I am also starting to believe that if we do not restrain our stars, it will devalue this website. Just like inflation is harming the pound sterling or the US Dollars. But I think it is too many five stars given. What do you think ? Lastly, I just want to apologize and add that the reason why I am posting four-seven reviews a day now is that I am copying and moving over my reviews from other websites/magazines to Prog Archives. Many of the reviews are between five and twenty years old and I am trying to upgrade them to year 2008 before posting them here. That's why I am overactive here now.
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Walker
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 20 2005
Location: Atlanta
Status: Offline
Points: 824
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Posted: November 02 2008 at 11:36 |
Welcome to the PA! I look forward to reading your reviews. As to your original question, the ratings here are really only of value to other members, so I think if you believe an album deserves 5 stars in your opinion, then go ahead and award them. The guidelines on this site are meant to give a general reasoning for a rating, but are not written in stone.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: November 02 2008 at 11:41 |
I'm too lazy to write reviews, but I think the whole "There are too many 5 stars!" vs "You can only give 5 stars to CTTE and TAAB!" is kind of annoying and irrelevant. Do what you think it most helpful, and if the powers that be think you suck and don't give you COLLABORATOR PRIVILEGES, screw them, they just don't appreciate your genius. ;-)
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24438
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Posted: November 02 2008 at 11:48 |
I have given lots of five stars, and I stand by my decision. Not all of those albums are amongst my favourites - some of those 5-star ratings were given to albums (like Dark Side of the Moon or Pawn Hearts) I believe to be essential for understanding prog. Some of those 5 stars would've been better as 4 and a half stars, if there had been such a possibility to choose from.
However, like other people on here, I think the actual review is FAR MORE important than those stars. There is a difference between 5 stars given by someone who says, "wow! best album ever!", and little else, and those given by someone who makes an effort to present their motivations to the reader in an accurate, user-friendly way.
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Hawkwise
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 31 2008
Location: Ontairo
Status: Offline
Points: 4119
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Posted: November 02 2008 at 11:53 |
Since when was Music about whats the score ? and Opinions Vary , Man Utd 4 - Hull 3 now there a good score
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Takeshi Kovacs
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 27 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2454
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Posted: November 02 2008 at 12:29 |
Personally, I would restrict my 5 star ratings to a handful of the very best prog albums in history, given that is the maximum rating that can be applied here. I would regard that as signifying that an album is as near to perfect (in my opinion) as can be, and would want to distinguish those albums from the rest of the population.
4 stars would then be applied to albums I really enjoy very much, forming the next tier beneath the prog 'greats'. 3 stars would be applied to good, solid prog albums that I enjoy...I guess this would be the 'benchmark / standard' rating that I would apply to a good album.
2 stars would be awarded to what I consider sub-standard albums or albums I cannot get into / do not appreciate.
1 star would be reserved for rubbish, and hopefully would be used sparingly.
This is just how I see the ratings applying to my musical taste, and I'm not trying to be prescriptive about how they should be used generally. The most important thing is that there are lots and lots of good / great music out there to enjoy, and the ratings are a prerry good guide to the quality of most albums.
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 Open the gates of the city wide....
Check out my music taste: http://www.last.fm/user/TakeshiKovacs/
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Doomcifer
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 22 2008
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 177
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Posted: November 02 2008 at 12:34 |
Raff wrote:
Some of those 5 stars would've been better as 4 and a half stars, if there had been such a possibility to choose from. |
I agree. It would be better if the rating system was on a 10-star system. I see tons of reviews where people will preface the review with a "half star" rating. Opinions vary.
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Queen By-Tor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 13 2006
Location: Xanadu
Status: Offline
Points: 16111
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Posted: November 02 2008 at 12:45 |
If I give an album 5 stars then it means that I believe that it is an
essential album and a masterpiece work from the band. Simple.
Henry Plainview wrote:
I'm too lazy to write reviews, but I think the whole "There are too
many 5 stars!" vs "You can only give 5 stars to CTTE and TAAB!" is kind
of annoying and irrelevan |
very true. There's a lot of albums which deserve a 5 star rating.
Although I'll admit that most of the 5-stars that I've given out have
been to albums already considered Masterpieces.
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russellk
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 28 2005
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 782
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Posted: November 02 2008 at 13:29 |
'Too many five-star albums!' some cry. 'Far too many one-star albums!' say others. So if we listen to these voices we end up with a three-star system - far too crude to distinguish between albums.
And who says there are only a few masterpieces out there? Personally, I think there are hundreds. Which one of us is right? Isn't it a matter of opinion?
Finally, there are plenty of people who only review their favourite albums. Do you expect them to be given fewer than five stars?
As others have said, in the end it is the review that counts.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: November 02 2008 at 13:40 |
King By-Tor wrote:
If I give an album 5 stars then it means that I believe that it is an essential album and a masterpiece work from the band. Simple.
Henry Plainview wrote:
I'm too lazy to write reviews, but I think the whole "There are too many 5 stars!" vs "You can only give 5 stars to CTTE and TAAB!" is kind of annoying and irrelevan |
very true. There's a lot of albums which deserve a 5 star rating. Although I'll admit that most of the 5-stars that I've given out have been to albums already considered Masterpieces.
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Hahaha, wow, I just realized what a huge error I made in my post. It should have been "5 stars for everyone!" vs "5 stars for CCTE!"
I really do not see the point of writing a 5 star review for anything in the top 50, much less the top 20, but that's just me. Do people really need to know that you think CTTE is a 5 star album, while Fragile is merely 4? Will it change their decision or opinion?
Edited by Henry Plainview - November 02 2008 at 13:45
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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russellk
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 28 2005
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 782
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Posted: November 02 2008 at 13:58 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
I really do not see the point of writing a 5 star review for anything in the top 50, much less the top 20, but that's just me. Do people really need to know that you think CTTE is a 5 star album, while Fragile is merely 4? Will it change their decision or opinion? |
There are those who, for reasons of their own, won't listen to anything remotely popular. A well-written review ought to encourage them to give a popular prog album a try. Moreover, new people come to this site on a daily basis - some of whom have come by a route that means they've not heard CTTE. Fundamentally, though, a great review encourages me to go back to an album I know well and listen to it with fresh ears. Hard to see how that's a bad thing. My opinion of quite a few albums has been changed in such a manner.
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Queen By-Tor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 13 2006
Location: Xanadu
Status: Offline
Points: 16111
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Posted: November 02 2008 at 14:04 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
King By-Tor wrote:
If I give an album 5 stars then it means that I believe that it is an essential album and a masterpiece work from the band. Simple.
Henry Plainview wrote:
I'm too lazy to write reviews, but I think the whole "There are too many 5 stars!" vs "You can only give 5 stars to CTTE and TAAB!" is kind of annoying and irrelevan |
very true. There's a lot of albums which deserve a 5 star rating. Although I'll admit that most of the 5-stars that I've given out have been to albums already considered Masterpieces.
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Hahaha, wow, I just realized what a huge error I made in my post. It should have been "5 stars for everyone!" vs "5 stars for CCTE!"
I really do not see the point of writing a 5 star review for anything in the top 50, much less the top 20, but that's just me. Do people really need to know that you think CTTE is a 5 star album, while Fragile is merely 4? Will it change their decision or opinion? |
Being that I think that was aimed directly at me I'll just say that I'd rather write for an album that has ≥ 10 reviews, but that's not always the point. I like to write, as shown in my reviews, and if on one day I don't have a seldom reviewed album to write for then why not keep my skills sharp and write yet another review for a "classic" album? Sure, no one is going to read it, but why not add my 2 cents. Although I think being someone who doesn't write reviews you wouldn't really "get it". Honestly, a lot of the "classic" albums that I review are just self indulgence, which is why I left most of them this long.
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024
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Posted: November 02 2008 at 14:13 |
When I started reviewing, I determined that I would only give 10 albums 5*, and I had already identified these.
However, I will have to break this since I have discovered the band IQ and one or two other albums by bands I'd not heard before, plus Mostly Autumn released Glass Shadows, but I will not give 5* lightly.
There are FAR too many 5* reviews IMO.
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: November 02 2008 at 14:21 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
if the powers that be think you suck and don't give you COLLABORATOR PRIVILEGES, screw them, they just don't appreciate your genius. ;-) |
Thanks for kind words and support, it makes it all worthwhile. 
We don't actually think any members "suck", and we're always open to recommendations for Prog Reviewer status. Collaborator/Special Collabarator status is given to those who collaborate in developing the site in some way. A bit radical, but that's just how we do it.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: November 02 2008 at 14:32 |
Last week there was a thread talking about too many 1 star review
Now there are too many 5 stars reviews.
Must we limit ourselves to 3 and 4 (many people think 2 stars is offensive, read the scandal about my 2 star eating to Opeth.
An honest person must give the exact rating he believes an album deserves, no matter if i's 5 or 1.
Iván
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24438
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Posted: November 02 2008 at 14:36 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Last week there was a thread talking about too many 1 star review
Now there are too many 5 stars reviews.
Must we limit ourselves to 3 and 4 (many people think 2 stars is offensive, read the scandal about my 2 star eating to Opeth.
An honest person must give the exact rating he believes an album deserves, no matter if i's 5 or 1.
Iván |
Hear, hear!
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: November 02 2008 at 16:20 |
My thoughts: 1. There are some albums which simply shout 5 stars to me. Close To The Edge, Thick As A Brick, Pawn Hearts, H To He..., Les Porches, Ys, ELP, Chameleon In The Shadow Of The Night, Islands... putting an arbitrary quota on these because you think there could only be 10 or 12 albums of that standard seems silly to me. 2. I fear I am a bit generous with 5 star ratings, particularly on a couple of borderline/flawed/only-personal masterpieces, but then I'm probably generous across the board. I wish I could be a bit stingier, but that's just not the way I end up thinking about music and generally when I go to harshen my marks, I can't find much I'd want to change. I figure the reader can look at my general ratings and check the review's pitch if he's really concerned about my rating. 3.
I really do not see the point of writing a 5 star review for
anything in the top 50, much less the top 20, but that's just me. Do
people really need to know that you think CTTE is a 5 star album, while
Fragile is merely 4? Will it change their decision or opinion? |
If someone knows why I think CTTE is a 5 star album and Fragile only a 4 star album, they might appreciate it in a new light. I see reviews as an effort to show why you like an album... sometimes that view helps me understand something properly for the first time. A couple of good reviews on big albums have changed my response to said albums. Alternatively, it can just be interesting and useful to look at people's tastes... if I know a guy likes Court and ELP, but isn't incredibly keen on Moonmadness, his more obscure interests might be very interesting to me.
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
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Posted: November 02 2008 at 20:49 |
I think we should start a separate thread rating the "one star / five star" threads that pop up way too often. Maybe we should limit ourselves and only rate albums from two to four ? Or after a 2-4 (for you canucks out there , eh  )
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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omri
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 1250
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Posted: November 03 2008 at 08:55 |
I wrote in the past that I only review albums I like very much (meaning for me - at least 4 stars). I don't try to be a musical critic. I find I have no time to bother on albums I dislike so I don't write reviews of those. I rarely write reviews anyway cause I'm lazy and many times I don't think I have something to add to the 300 reviewed an album before I did it. I disagree with many of the reviews I read but then, probably, others disagree with mine. So I guess if you read the review and get a good idea why it was rated so then you should respect that writer and his rating.
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omri
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20507
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Posted: November 03 2008 at 11:11 |
Too many 5 stars review used to be a problem, but I think the problem has been under control for a few years now.... and like the opening post, thiswarning about putting 5 stars too often is still effective on me.
I try to reserve 5 stars to roughly 5% of my reviews - one out of 20 - which is not unreasonable.
But this issue is still under waqtch from our members, because it's so tempting for some to skew tour rating system. But aover the years, I'd say that PA's ratings are getting more trustworthy: it used to be that I wouldn't pay attention, preferring GNOSIS2000 ratings (I still do), but PA is now all right.
PS: Like Ivŕn, I don't think two stars is a bad rating either. It just means that it's for those who like the band and want more than the essentials or the very good albums from them.
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let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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