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keiser willhelm 
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Joined: September 14 2007
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 Topic: New Category, Post metal/ Sludge or Doom
Posted: September 17 2007 at 23:36 |
I am of the opinion that a new sub category should be made for these types of bands that somehow get lumped into the now gigantic , catch-all category of progressive metal. bands like Isis, Neurosis, and Pelican just to name a few, do not belong in the same category as dream theater and symphony x even if they happen to use the distorted guitar and heavy vocals. its a completely different type of music almost entirely. I was wondering what you thought? yes no? why?
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TheProgtologist
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Posted: September 17 2007 at 23:50 |
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I agree.I have personally added a large number of these type of bands that are here.With post rock being a sub-genre here,the addition of post metal bands was a logical step.I think Isis was the first we added,and that addition opened the door for other post metal bands.I was never comfortable calling them progressive metal.
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P.H.P.
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Joined: September 01 2007
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 00:55 |
Now it really is AnythingArchives!! 
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The T
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 01:11 |
No, it's not ahything archives.. It's still progressive music that needs to be subgenre-ized for easier navigation, research, and more coherence for the listener, for the newbie and the regular fan.
Bands in prog metal:
Dream Theater
Kayo Dot
Death
Unexpect
Messhuggah
Other than the metal riffing and some minor elements, you can't say these 5 are a lot alike, are they?
Prog-metal should have more going into the proto-genre and the related genre.. I can't agree with only ONE metal band in prog related, and countless of pseudo-prog rock bands.... there ARE metal bands that are related to prog, if not full blown prog-metal... Also, at least two bands (rejected, I know, but I'll say it anyway) are important in the formation of the prog-metal genre: the San Francisco band (those who know will understand) and Mercyful fate...(and a few more)....OK, I understand this is not "metal archives" (there's a site with that name) but if we have prog-metal here, let's respect it. There ARE prog-related metal bands, but nothing gets in, whereas any pseudo emo rock with some long song gets added..I'm sorry for this rant, it just doesn't make me happy.
Edited by The T - September 18 2007 at 01:12
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kazansky
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 01:24 |
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now that Art Rock has been splitted, perhaps the same could be done with Prog Metal? just don't make too many subgenres perhaps
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The devil we blame our atrocities on is really just each one of us.
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Raff
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 01:47 |
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If I am allowed to throw my own 2 eurocents in, I think it's a more than sensible move. Even not being a PM expert, I've heard enough of the bands listed here to understand that Dream Theater and Kayo Dot have absolutely nothing in common, and that Opeth sound quite different from Symphony X. I know that lately PA has been getting a lot of flak because of its categorization system, but we're not the only ones that use it - and, once you start going that way, it's inevitable to try and get more and more accurate.
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 02:30 |
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Currently there are approximately 400 prog metal bands in the database, another 70 have been cleared for addition, and another 100+ bands are being considered. It's about time that this huge category gets split ... as some of you will know the PMT worked out a suggestion which would result in 4 or 5 new categories, each of which would contain 50-150 bands.
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Mategra
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Joined: August 23 2004
Location: Sweden
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 03:46 |
 Metal isn't real Prog.
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laplace
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Joined: October 06 2005
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 03:56 |
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^well, the entry "progginess" level is lower just because of how terribly rigid metal is, naturally, but I think the teams *tend* to pick the most inventive bands from what's available...
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 06:53 |
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^ maybe you should be more careful laplace ... I've read many of your reviews and posts and while I respect your opinion, you often make it sound like the things you say are fact. They're not ... the existence of this very thread proves you wrong for example ("terribly rigid" - Post Metal is a prime example for unusual metal bands).
Edited by MikeEnRegalia - September 18 2007 at 06:56
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jikai55
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 07:02 |
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Yes, I feel the post-metal genre is neccessary!
Remember, not all Sludge bands are Post-Metal bands!
Well, if you were breaking down Prog Metal, heres some categories I could recommend:
Post-Metal (Isis, Neurosis...)
Avant-Garde Metal (Subterranean Masquerade, Unexpect...)
Jazz Metal/Tech Metal (Cynic, Atheist, Meshuggah...)
And keep the category 'Progressive Metal' for bands like DT and Fates Warning. Just my ideas.
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I like cheese and I like metal! --Mikael Åkerfeldt
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chamberry
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 07:09 |
They may seem out of place in Prog Metal, but can you imagine what this place will be like if its open for Doom Metal and more common Sludge Metal bands? We'll loose control of those genres very quickly. I'm a big fan of Doom Metal and all of things slow riff related ( ), but adding new genres will be too much, in my opinion.
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jikai55
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Joined: March 21 2007
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 07:15 |
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You just have to draw the line between sludge and post-metal. Sure, bands like Isis and Neurosis are sludge AND post-metal, but bands like Bongzilla and Acid Bath aren't post-metal.
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I like cheese and I like metal! --Mikael Åkerfeldt
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chamberry
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 07:20 |
^^^ And what should we do with the Doom Metal bands? Those guys may be progressive in the true sense of the word, but they aren't really part of the progressive rock movement. I like your idea of the subdivisions of the genre, by the way. 
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 07:20 |
 jikai55 wrote:
Yes, I feel the post-metal genre is neccessary!
Remember, not all Sludge bands are Post-Metal bands!
Well, if you were breaking down Prog Metal, heres some categories I could recommend:
Post-Metal (Isis, Neurosis...)
Avant-Garde Metal (Subterranean Masquerade, Unexpect...)
Jazz Metal/Tech Metal (Cynic, Atheist, Meshuggah...)
And keep the category 'Progressive Metal' for bands like DT and Fates Warning. Just my ideas. |
That's not very far from what we have in mind in the PMT ... but there are two more candidates for new categories IMO: Prog Power Metal (Kamelot, Symphony X, Nightwish, Rhapsody, ... all bands with a focus on Power Metal (both European/American style)) Extreme Prog Metal (Opeth, Meshuggah, Death, Atheist, Enslaved, ... all bands based in extreme metal genres like Death, Black, Thrash etc) As a result the bands remaining in Prog Metal would all be melodic and symphonic, So it might be renamed to Melodic Prog Metal: - Melodic Prog Metal
- Prog Power Metal
- Extreme Prog Metal
- Post Metal
- Avant Metal
- Tech/Math Metal
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activetopics
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 29 2007
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 07:26 |
so....many......subgenres.....aaah! 
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 07:33 |
^ the bands are different enough to justify the genres ... prog metal simply branched out much more than most other sub genres of prog rock. In the last 20+ years it developed into a base genre ... like an offshoot of prog rock, a child branch which developed into a separate tree. Imagine Frank Zappa, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Genesis, Hawkwind, Sigur Rós, Can and Rush being in the same category ... that's a bit like what we currently have in Prog Metal. 
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jikai55
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Joined: March 21 2007
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Points: 296
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 07:42 |
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Sounds great Mike, though Atheist is better in tech metal in my opinion.
Edited by jikai55 - September 18 2007 at 07:43
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I like cheese and I like metal! --Mikael Åkerfeldt
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Dean
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 07:46 |
Sub dividing Prog Metal is a good idea: Neurosis, Opeth and Dream Theater lumped together does not compute, but I feel six is too many (even though the reality is probably more than six ) - it becomes too esoteric and subjective. Would it not be better to start small, say 3, and see how it works out?
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What?
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oracus
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Joined: December 12 2005
Location: Greece
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 08:35 |
P.H.P. wrote:
Now it really is AnythingArchives!!
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It is already AnythingArchives. We have from Iron Maiden to GY!BE, from Billy Cobham to Led Zeppelin...
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New Category, Post metal/ Sludge or Doom
