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arcer
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 01 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1239
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Topic: until the re-vamp... outta here Posted: January 24 2005 at 17:01 |
Having just seen a 'include Zep in the archives' thread in main discussions (the second in as many weeks it seems), along with the countless other, tiresome, frustrating, boring and pointless similar threads about everyone (almost from 10cc to Ten Years After to Ten Speed Racer), I've had enough.
I tried to be good, not lose my temper, and offer suggestions in the belief that if people read the threads on prog definitions and the re-vamp would use their better judgement and back off for a while until the heavily publicised re-vamp has been complete but it just goes from bad to worse.
I'm bored, frustrated and generally ticked off.
It may seem a bit dramatic but until the re-vamp is done, I'm going to join several other forum members and take a break to let the pollsters go at it.
Not saying I'll be greatly missed (nothing so dramatic) but just want to make the point that the site is in danger of collapse under the weight of nonsense being spouted (yes, some it even by me!) and I can't be bothered reading 80 per cent of the posts anymore.
I'll keep an eye out and see how the re-vamp goes, best of luck with it....
until February or so....
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 17:34 |
I think one of the problems here is all the newbies seem to have no understanding of what even relative progressive music is. On one of the Pink Floyd sites someone started a thread called "Your Top Five Favorite Progressive Bands"... and quite a few of them listed mostly bands like the Allman Bros. or Led Zep... the Beatles... I was thoroughly amazed. I gave them the page URL here that explains prog.... but evidently none of them cared...they continued to list any band from the 70s that they liked....
Edited by threefates
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THIS IS ELP
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 17:57 |
Cheers Arcer!
I agree. I am only going to check here once in a while and limit my posting. I agree about those threads. What gets me is in that Zep thread someone basically says Oh I don't think Zep is prog but they are more interesting than almost everything else here.
Why would anyone waste their time on a site where they don't like most of what is subject here? Those kinds of things are just stupid and go along with the your 80% unreadable posts comment. If I come across something interesting I will Email it to you.
.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 18:00 |
threefates wrote:
I think one of the problems here is all the newbies seem to have no understanding of what even relative progressive music is. On one of the Pink Floyd sites someone started a thread called "Your Top Five Favorite Progressive Bands"... and quite a few of them listed mostly bands like the Allman Bros. or Led Zep... the Beatles... I was thoroughly amazed. I gave them the page URL here that explains prog.... but evidently none of them cared...they continued to list any band from the 70s that they liked....
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So your responsible, now these guys have found us, and clutter the forum and the archive with their misconseptions
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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JrKASperov
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 07 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 904
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 18:08 |
Finally someone with a healthy stand on the new 'ideas' for bands.
But don't go arcer, or we'll all lose our heads. We need guys like you.
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Epic.
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frosty
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 16 2005
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 120
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 18:39 |
It would be a shame for long standing contributers to leave the forum for these reasons. I would rather these discussions took place in a dedicated section, yes I know their is one already but it hasn't seemed to dawn on some people.
The forum would be a poorer place for your absence.
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gdub411
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3484
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 18:47 |
You know if it wasn't Robert The Plant who posted this then I might have groaned in discust too. But when someone whose name and avatar are based on a member of his favorite band, I can see why he would want to try to get them in. Given his age(17), one must remember when we worshipped our favorite band in our youth. The passion, The zeal we had for our band. I am sure RTP is only looking at it in that kind of perspective. It is like all these cool, important bands are invited to this exclusive party, and yet his favorite, Led Zeppelin...is not...!Why?, he is asking!!
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Dan Bobrowski
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5243
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 19:00 |
This forum is a place for learning. Sharing your point of view and even learning to develop critical reasoning skills can only be a good experience. Let it go or discuss and teach. It's all about perspectives.... and music.
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Valarius
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 08 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1480
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 19:11 |
Aren't all these people who are suddenly leaving overeacting a little? Or am I missing something?
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 19:30 |
danbo wrote:
This forum is a place for learning. Sharing your point of view and even learning to develop critical reasoning skills can only be a good experience. Let it go or discuss and teach. It's all about perspectives.... and music. |
Thats all good and I try to do that and shut up and learn when called for, Danbo. The person that I refered to in my message (and there are a few just like him) really has no likes and posts just to tick people off. It just gets annoying. So I will answer on some things but on others I am not going to get drawn in. Hopefully they will get bored and go bother someone else.
Edited by Garion81
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Rob The Plant
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 15 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 819
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 20:00 |
gdub411 wrote:
You know if it wasn't Robert The Plant who posted this then I might have groaned in discust too. But when someone whose name and avatar are based on a member of his favorite band, I can see why he would want to try to get them in. Given his age(17), one must remember when we worshipped our favorite band in our youth. The passion, The zeal we had for our band. I am sure RTP is only looking at it in that kind of perspective. It is like all these cool, important bands are invited to this exclusive party, and yet his favorite, Led Zeppelin...is not...!Why?, he is asking!! |
Thanks for the defense Gdub, but I do see where the line is, though I also see some progressive elements in Zep. i suppose I lost my cool, because of the Autograph thing, but before that I never really pushed Zeppelin, though I love them to death.
I feel terrible about pushing an old member over the edge like this. I suppose lately I've been caught up in a bit of silliness, which has influenced me (negatively sometimes).
So I have this to say, sorry for losing us a valuable member, sorry for scaring Peter, sorry for scaring Threefates, sorry for mocking Threefates' her (or whatever exactly Mr Lake is to you), sorry for whatever else I've done.
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Collaborators will take your soul.
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 21:19 |
Rob The Plant wrote:
gdub411 wrote:
You know if it wasn't Robert The Plant who posted this then I might have groaned in discust too. But when someone whose name and avatar are based on a member of his favorite band, I can see why he would want to try to get them in. Given his age(17), one must remember when we worshipped our favorite band in our youth. The passion, The zeal we had for our band. I am sure RTP is only looking at it in that kind of perspective. It is like all these cool, important bands are invited to this exclusive party, and yet his favorite, Led Zeppelin...is not...!Why?, he is asking!! |
Thanks for the defense Gdub, but I do see where the line is, though I also see some progressive elements in Zep. i suppose I lost my cool, because of the Autograph thing, but before that I never really pushed Zeppelin, though I love them to death.
I feel terrible about pushing an old member over the edge like this. I suppose lately I've been caught up in a bit of silliness, which has influenced me (negatively sometimes).
So I have this to say, sorry for losing us a valuable member, sorry for scaring Peter, sorry for scaring Threefates, sorry for mocking Threefates' her (or whatever exactly Mr Lake is to you), sorry for whatever else I've done.
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Nothing I have said in this thread refers to you Rob. Just to be clear.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 21:46 |
tuxon wrote:
threefates wrote:
I think one of the problems here is all the newbies seem to have no understanding of what even relative progressive music is. On one of the Pink Floyd sites someone started a thread called "Your Top Five Favorite Progressive Bands"... and quite a few of them listed mostly bands like the Allman Bros. or Led Zep... the Beatles... I was thoroughly amazed. I gave them the page URL here that explains prog.... but evidently none of them cared...they continued to list any band from the 70s that they liked....
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So your responsible, now these guys have found us, and clutter the forum and the archive with their misconseptions
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Hey, I gave them the Led Zeppelin forum URL also...
Edited by threefates
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THIS IS ELP
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 21:49 |
Rob The Plant wrote:
So I have this to say, sorry for losing us a valuable member, sorry for scaring Peter, sorry for scaring Threefates, sorry for mocking Threefates' her (or whatever exactly Mr Lake is to you), sorry for whatever else I've done.
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Oh Rob... have you met Reed??? I doubt you could actually mock anyone enough to hurt them.
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THIS IS ELP
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Rob The Plant
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 15 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 819
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 22:01 |
threefates wrote:
Rob The Plant wrote:
So I have this to say, sorry for losing us a valuable member, sorry for scaring Peter, sorry for scaring Threefates, sorry for mocking Threefates' her (or whatever exactly Mr Lake is to you), sorry for whatever else I've done.
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Oh Rob... have you met Reed??? I doubt you could actually mock anyone enough to hurt them.
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haha, true. I've been a victim of Reed Lover, he coined the name "Rob the Plank."
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Collaborators will take your soul.
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Sweetnighter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 24 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1298
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 22:13 |
ARGH!!!
I hate to see this. Of course I do agree with many of Arcer's
sentiments, it frustrates me that the most veteran members of the board
have no way of implementing effective change to stem this recent trend
other than by acting passive agressively and simply leaving the boards.
Should this persist, and I fear that if this opening of the floodgates
to making changes in the archives, that some of the best and most
respected members of the board will continue to drop like flies until
the board becomes like the board we continually talk about not
liking... the ones where people just bash one anothers' favorite band
and no decent conversation goes on. First with Cert's angered departure
and Arcer's more resigned one, we definitely have a problem on our
hands here. I've found that the main discussion page conversation has
really lagged and I sympathize with these people to a large degree.
To compare it to the political arena, this board has seen a major swing
from a conservative outlook on how prog is defined to a seemingly much
more liberal one. Where once Radiohead was seemingly out of the
question, Radiohead is now in the archives and the newer members of the
board are pressing for other groups to join as well, i.e. Led Zeppelin.
Although I initially favored including the band into the archives, I
now sort of regret it, seeing whats happened in the aftermath. It just
seems to me that the veteran members of the board should be making
decisions about including new groups, rather than having newer members
rampantly clamoring for their psuedo-prog groups to be included.
This is a place for newcomers to learn about progressive rock, not for them to come and redefine what it is.
So yes, I made that poll to include Radiohead into the archives,
and may in some small way be guilty for all of this. Although I don't
completely understand the details of the site's revamping, I hope that
it somehow solves this situation. I really find the continuous posting
of "lets add X band" in the main discussions section to be a drag. When
I came here, I came here because I loved the classic prog groups and
wanted to talk to other fans and expand my vision and knowledge of the
genre.
In any event, I would strongly urge the veteran members: threefates,
gdub, velvetclown, reed lover, peter, james, the whole crew... to
work with max and maani to somehow solve this issue. I haven't been
here too long, but I hate to see the forums sliding down this hill.
-Ian
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I bleed coffee. When I don't drink coffee, my veins run dry, and I shrivel up and die.
"Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso? Is that like the bank of Italian soccer death or something?" -my girlfriend
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Sweetnighter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 24 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1298
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 22:16 |
gdub411 wrote:
You know if it wasn't Robert The Plant who posted this
then I might have groaned in discust too. But when someone whose name
and avatar are based on a member of his favorite band, I can see why he
would want to try to get them in. Given his age(17), one must remember
when we worshipped our favorite band in our youth. The passion, The
zeal we had for our band. I am sure RTP is only looking at it in that
kind of perspective. It is like all these cool, important bands
are invited to this exclusive party, and yet his favorite, Led
Zeppelin...is not...!Why?, he is asking!! |
I agree, he should be able to suggest adding bands to the archives if
he wants. Regardless, if his doing so is resulting in other peoples'
leaving the site over frustration, then something needs to change. I've
said this before, and I really really really hope that the revamp
somehow addresses this.
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I bleed coffee. When I don't drink coffee, my veins run dry, and I shrivel up and die.
"Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso? Is that like the bank of Italian soccer death or something?" -my girlfriend
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Glass-Prison
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 08 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 453
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 22:23 |
Bravo.
So? How about those mellotrons, eh?
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Sun Tsu said: To fight and conquer in your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
Sun Tsu: The art of War
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maani
Special Collaborator
Founding Moderator
Joined: January 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2632
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 22:55 |
All:
As I noted in the other "I'm taking a break" thread, there is nothing wrong with taking time off, especially since so many of are "winded" from recent events and discussions. I would suggest, however, that you continue to "monitor" the site, especially those threads in which important discussions are being had re new rules and policies for the re-vamp. This is particularly true of those of you who are collaborators; please make sure to monitor the collaborators forums, since that is where final ideas for decision-making will occur.
Peace to all.
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 22:56 |
Sweetnighter wrote:
gdub411 wrote:
You know if it wasn't Robert The Plant who posted this then I might have groaned in discust too. But when someone whose name and avatar are based on a member of his favorite band, I can see why he would want to try to get them in. Given his age(17), one must remember when we worshipped our favorite band in our youth. The passion, The zeal we had for our band. I am sure RTP is only looking at it in that kind of perspective. It is like all these cool, important bands are invited to this exclusive party, and yet his favorite, Led Zeppelin...is not...!Why?, he is asking!! |
I agree, he should be able to suggest adding bands to the archives if he wants. Regardless, if his doing so is resulting in other peoples' leaving the site over frustration, then something needs to change. I've said this before, and I really really really hope that the revamp somehow addresses this.
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Actually, I just don't get the reasoning here. This site is not called "Prog & Everything Else Archives"... its called ProgArchives. I'm a fan of AC/DC, but you don't see me requesting they be let on this site... As sure as I'm not going into a Metal or Hard Rock sites and ask them to add ELP...
So what if Led Zep is Rob's favorite band? Even tho they are a great band.. and historically as important as any other... that still doesn't make them prog or give them a place here, nor does it make sense for someone to request their admittance here just because he loves them.
This is an exclusive party... if it wasn't, then this site would mean absolutely nothing. Which its beginning to become anyway with all this silly illogical discussion... and its driving all the long time members away.. because they just can't handle the lunacy....
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THIS IS ELP
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