until the re-vamp... outta here
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Topic: until the re-vamp... outta here
Posted By: arcer
Subject: until the re-vamp... outta here
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 17:01
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Having just seen a 'include Zep in the archives' thread in main discussions (the second in as many weeks it seems), along with the countless other, tiresome, frustrating, boring and pointless similar threads about everyone (almost from 10cc to Ten Years After to Ten Speed Racer), I've had enough. I tried to be good, not lose my temper, and offer suggestions in the belief that if people read the threads on prog definitions and the re-vamp would use their better judgement and back off for a while until the heavily publicised re-vamp has been complete but it just goes from bad to worse. I'm bored, frustrated and generally ticked off. It may seem a bit dramatic but until the re-vamp is done, I'm going to join several other forum members and take a break to let the pollsters go at it. Not saying I'll be greatly missed (nothing so dramatic) but just want to make the point that the site is in danger of collapse under the weight of nonsense being spouted (yes, some it even by me! I'll keep an eye out and see how the re-vamp goes, best of luck with it.... until February or so.... |
) and I can't be bothered reading 80 per cent of the posts anymore.Replies:
Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 17:34
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I think one of the problems here is all the newbies seem to have no understanding of what even relative progressive music is. On one of the Pink Floyd sites someone started a thread called "Your Top Five Favorite Progressive Bands"... and quite a few of them listed mostly bands like the Allman Bros. or Led Zep... the Beatles... I was thoroughly amazed. I gave them the page URL here that explains prog.... but evidently none of them cared...they continued to list any band from the 70s that they liked....
------------- THIS IS ELP 
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Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 17:57
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Cheers Arcer! I agree. I am only going to check here once in a while and limit my posting. I agree about those threads. What gets me is in that Zep thread someone basically says Oh I don't think Zep is prog but they are more interesting than almost everything else here. Why would anyone waste their time on a site where they don't like most of what is subject here? . ------------- 
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Those kinds of things are just stupid and go along with the your 80% unreadable posts comment. If I come across something interesting I will Email it to you. Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 18:00
So your responsible, now these guys have found us, and clutter the forum and the archive with their misconseptions ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
threefates wrote:
Posted By: JrKASperov
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 18:08
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Finally someone with a healthy stand on the new 'ideas' for bands. But don't go arcer, or we'll all lose our heads. We need guys like you. ------------- Epic. |
Posted By: frosty
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 18:39
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It would be a shame for long standing contributers to leave the forum for these reasons. I would rather these discussions took place in a dedicated section, yes I know their is one already but it hasn't seemed to dawn on some people. The forum would be a poorer place for your absence.
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Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 18:47
| You know if it wasn't Robert The Plant who posted this then I might have groaned in discust too. But when someone whose name and avatar are based on a member of his favorite band, I can see why he would want to try to get them in. Given his age(17), one must remember when we worshipped our favorite band in our youth. The passion, The zeal we had for our band. I am sure RTP is only looking at it in that kind of perspective. It is like all these cool, important bands are invited to this exclusive party, and yet his favorite, Led Zeppelin...is not...!Why?, he is asking!! |
Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 19:00
This forum is a place for learning. Sharing your point of view and even learning to develop critical reasoning skills can only be a good experience. Let it go or discuss and teach. It's all about perspectives.... and music. 
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Posted By: Valarius
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 19:11
| Aren't all these people who are suddenly leaving overeacting a little? Or am I missing something? |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 19:30
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Thats all good and I try to do that and shut up and learn when called for, Danbo. The person that I refered to in my message (and there are a few just like him) really has no likes and posts just to tick people off. It just gets annoying. So I will answer on some things but on others I am not going to get drawn in. Hopefully they will get bored and go bother someone else.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: Rob The Plant
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 20:00
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Thanks for the defense Gdub, but I do see where the line is, though I also see some progressive elements in Zep. i suppose I lost my cool, because of the Autograph thing, but before that I never really pushed Zeppelin, though I love them to death. I feel terrible about pushing an old member over the edge like this. I suppose lately I've been caught up in a bit of silliness, which has influenced me (negatively sometimes). So I have this to say, sorry for losing us a valuable member, sorry for scaring Peter, sorry for scaring Threefates, sorry for mocking Threefates' her (or whatever exactly Mr Lake is to you), sorry for whatever else I've done. ------------- Collaborators will take your soul. |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 21:19
Nothing I have said in this thread refers to you Rob. Just to be clear.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 21:46
Hey, I gave them the Led Zeppelin forum URL also... ------------- THIS IS ELP
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Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 21:49
Oh Rob... have you met Reed??? I doubt you could actually mock anyone enough to hurt them. ------------- THIS IS ELP
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Posted By: Rob The Plant
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 22:01
haha, true. I've been a victim of Reed Lover, he coined the name "Rob the Plank." ------------- Collaborators will take your soul. |
Posted By: Sweetnighter
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 22:13
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ARGH!!! I hate to see this. Of course I do agree with many of Arcer's sentiments, it frustrates me that the most veteran members of the board have no way of implementing effective change to stem this recent trend other than by acting passive agressively and simply leaving the boards. Should this persist, and I fear that if this opening of the floodgates to making changes in the archives, that some of the best and most respected members of the board will continue to drop like flies until the board becomes like the board we continually talk about not liking... the ones where people just bash one anothers' favorite band and no decent conversation goes on. First with Cert's angered departure and Arcer's more resigned one, we definitely have a problem on our hands here. I've found that the main discussion page conversation has really lagged and I sympathize with these people to a large degree. To compare it to the political arena, this board has seen a major swing from a conservative outlook on how prog is defined to a seemingly much more liberal one. Where once Radiohead was seemingly out of the question, Radiohead is now in the archives and the newer members of the board are pressing for other groups to join as well, i.e. Led Zeppelin. Although I initially favored including the band into the archives, I now sort of regret it, seeing whats happened in the aftermath. It just seems to me that the veteran members of the board should be making decisions about including new groups, rather than having newer members rampantly clamoring for their psuedo-prog groups to be included.  This is a place for newcomers to learn about progressive rock, not for them to come and redefine what it is. So yes, I made that poll to include Radiohead into the archives, and may in some small way be guilty for all of this. Although I don't completely understand the details of the site's revamping, I hope that it somehow solves this situation. I really find the continuous posting of "lets add X band" in the main discussions section to be a drag. When I came here, I came here because I loved the classic prog groups and wanted to talk to other fans and expand my vision and knowledge of the genre. In any event, I would strongly urge the veteran members: threefates, gdub, velvetclown, reed lover, peter, james, the whole crew... to work with max and maani to somehow solve this issue. I haven't been here too long, but I hate to see the forums sliding down this hill. -Ian ------------- I bleed coffee. When I don't drink coffee, my veins run dry, and I shrivel up and die. "Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso? Is that like the bank of Italian soccer death or something?" -my girlfriend |
Posted By: Sweetnighter
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 22:16
I agree, he should be able to suggest adding bands to the archives if he wants. Regardless, if his doing so is resulting in other peoples' leaving the site over frustration, then something needs to change. I've said this before, and I really really really hope that the revamp somehow addresses this. ------------- I bleed coffee. When I don't drink coffee, my veins run dry, and I shrivel up and die. "Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso? Is that like the bank of Italian soccer death or something?" -my girlfriend |
Posted By: Glass-Prison
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 22:23
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Bravo.
So? How about those mellotrons, eh? ------------- Sun Tsu said: To fight and conquer in your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting. Sun Tsu: The art of War |
Posted By: maani
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 22:55
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All: As I noted in the other "I'm taking a break" thread, there is nothing wrong with taking time off, especially since so many of are "winded" from recent events and discussions. I would suggest, however, that you continue to "monitor" the site, especially those threads in which important discussions are being had re new rules and policies for the re-vamp. This is particularly true of those of you who are collaborators; please make sure to monitor the collaborators forums, since that is where final ideas for decision-making will occur. Peace to all. |
Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 22:56
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Actually, I just don't get the reasoning here. This site is not called "Prog & Everything Else Archives"... its called ProgArchives. I'm a fan of AC/DC, but you don't see me requesting they be let on this site... As sure as I'm not going into a Metal or Hard Rock sites and ask them to add ELP... So what if Led Zep is Rob's favorite band? Even tho they are a great band.. and historically as important as any other... that still doesn't make them prog or give them a place here, nor does it make sense for someone to request their admittance here just because he loves them. This is an exclusive party... if it wasn't, then this site would mean absolutely nothing. Which its beginning to become anyway with all this silly illogical discussion... and its driving all the long time members away.. because they just can't handle the lunacy....
------------- THIS IS ELP
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Posted By: Rob The Plant
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 22:58
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I'd like to hilight this quote, as it should be a basic custom followed by newcomers (including myself). I came here to learn, as Rob The Plant, and that's what all of us newcomers should be here for. It's far more constructive to listen, ask questions from the veterans and discuss in an intelligent manner, where as if we come and mock one another far more than is appropriate. This is why I am tellin geveryone blatantly, though I thought I have done htis already, that I am K00l. Sorry all who are enjoying his... um interesting personality, but it's beginning to get a bit over the top. It's a bit unfortunate that the site is getting crowded with rubbish, but it's not so hard to fix, with some responsibility beng given to the seniors. Plant, 1/3 Guruz, etc out. ------------- Collaborators will take your soul. |
Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 23:06
You're absolutely correct TF8ts but I must say once again....He is 17...not...well you know! |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: January 24 2005 at 23:18
You're absolutely correct TF8ts but I must say once again....He is 17...not...well you know! [/QUOTE]
I already posted that i didn't have anything against Rob or his Zeppelin thread. It is some other people that come on here do not, by their own admission, don't like prog and then start flaming type posting just to get a rise out of people. They can all go away.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: sigod
Date Posted: January 25 2005 at 09:37
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Cheers Arcer, you'll be missed. Many of the smiles this forum has given
me have come from you and your music equipment posts are always
informative and have better than average spelling. Come back soon mate.  ------------- I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision. - Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: January 25 2005 at 09:54
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arcer.. Hope to hear from you soon! To be frank I've run out of things to say myself, but I visit this forum every day of the week, and I love it. I advise any older member of this club, to just back off from the forum if they get frustrated with the discussions. Write some reviews, collaborate in whatever way you feel you can with the archives, but DONT 'leave' Please. Dont leave me with these kids..I'm a hopeless babysitter...
------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Rob The Good
Date Posted: January 26 2005 at 03:51
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My name's Rob too!!! Except that's my real name.
I'm not getting geared up to leave, but I AM getting tired of the endless debates. It seems people are absolutely nuts about getting their favourite band into the archive. I'm not making any comments about whether or not Radiohead are prog, but THAT'S how they got into the archive. I did that too!! I pushed for Roxy Music & The Crazy World of Arthur Brown to be included, and they were. But the old maxim stays true: Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it isn't prog. Just because you DO like it, doesn't mean it IS prog. I think it's a good idea that some of us take some time out. Things can get heated, and it's no help to anyone at all. It's sort of like me discussing politics here in NZ. The extreme left have really ruined the country, while the right or liberal centre are really suffering. Painful.  ------------- And Jesus said unto John, "come forth and receive eternal life..." Unfortunately, John came fifth and was stuck with a toaster. |
Posted By: Rob The Plant
Date Posted: January 26 2005 at 10:51
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I think it's settled down a lot. Now would be a better time for those who left ,to come back, not for you to leave. I know your name's Rob. ------------- Collaborators will take your soul. |
Posted By: Velvetclown
Date Posted: January 26 2005 at 11:28
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Robby !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------- Billy Connolly Dream Theater Terry Gilliam Hagen Quartet Jethro Tull Mike Keneally |