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Tony Fisher View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Eurovision
    Posted: May 25 2006 at 13:17
Will Lordi's win on Eurovision do some good for prog as a spin off?

Although they're more plain stadium hard rock than anything, will this encourage some to look beyond the rap/boy band rubbish to some real music with real people playing real instruments? After all, Finland's viewers wanted to enter Nightwish the previous year but the powers that be said they weren't what Europe wanted to hear. I  disagree.

I suspect that Iceland would do well with Sigur Ros too, who are immensely popular in the UK.

Eurovision is a bit of a joke with the political voting, but a prog band on there could restore some credibility and give the genre some valuable exposure!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 13:24
Why would any self-respecting Prog band want to subject themselves to the celebration of the lowest common denominator that is Eurovision?

Imagine Sigur Ros getting beaten by some half-baked mutants in fancy dress for next to last place...
The dreaded "nil points"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 13:27
Having said that and hijacking Tony Fisher's thread,which I nearly moved BTW (but to where??)

Which European Prog (or prog-related)band would have the most chance of appealing to the widest proportion of Eurovision viewers?
A breakthrough band so to speak....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 13:47
Actually, I don't think the voting is political per se, I think it's based on cultural similarities. The musical traditions of the Balkans are different from those of Northern Europe, and their respective populations are going to respond to different things. Also, an artist like Sweden's Carola isn't really known outside Scandinavia so that's the only place where you can factor in her star power (which - for reasons that completely elude me - is considerable).

It's not because most Norwegian viewers consciously go "Oh, a Swedish song - we must vote for that!", but that they may already be familiar with the artist performing and have a natural affinity for the style of song performed. Replace Norway/Sweden with Croatia/Albania or any other countries with some shared cultural background.

Also, there's nothing in Lordi that's more "real" than lost of other Eurovision songs. Many are performed by the artists (one was, after all, totally acapella), and quite a few written or co-written by the performer.

What Lordi's victory proved was only that a Metal song of the type Lordi performed really isn't that far off from the radio-friendly Pop that most Metal fans abhor. And this is borne out by a growing Metal presence in each respective country's sub-contest (and remember, Norway did really well with Wig-wam last year).

The soundscape is quite different, but the conventions are the same; the structures, the rhythms, the melodies and chord progressions run very close to what is now the standard, almost immutable template for How a Song Should Be. One that's used by Westlife and Bruce Springsteen, by Lordi and Carola, by The White Stripes and The Sugababes. The differences are minor and usually cosmetic.

A much more likely scenario for Prog benefitting and gaining listeners through Eurovision is the heavy Balkan influence of the last few years. Balkan music generally does not shy away from odd meters and chord progressions that sound positively weird to the Western European ear.

Macedonia's entry Life from two years ago was a minor key tune in 7/8 with some intricate backing vocals and a nice Eastern-style string arrangement. As I recall, it placed quite high, probably kept from the win by Western Europe ignoring it completely, strange as it was to them.

Maybe as people hear more things like that, they'll become less sensitive to "odd" details in music, and so may expand their horizons a bit. At least, so one can hope.

But Lordi? Naw...


Edited by Teaflax - May 25 2006 at 16:11
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OT Räihälä View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 14:24
Wise words from John (Teaflax)... The only thing I would like to emphasize is that Norway's Eurovision contestant last year (someone called Wig-wam) must not be mistaken as Wigwam!

One of the finest bands to ever come out of the Fenno-Scandinavian prog scene.

http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAND.asp?band_id=657

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 14:39
Sorry - my bad. I'll fix it.


Edited by Teaflax - May 25 2006 at 14:40
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 14:51
I'm just not convinced that it was the song wot won it.
 
If you listened to the song alone, with no knowledge of how they looked, would you really pick it as a winner, even amongst such dross as the competition this year?
 
Don't get me wrong - I'm glad Lordi won - they were a pseudosatanic breath of fresh air - but 90% due I think to their image, rather than the music. Thus, I can't see any knock on effect on the quality (sic) of Eurovision. It will always be a mixture of the naff, the very naff, the jawdroppingly indescribable, and the very occasional, often unintentional gem. Star
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 15:07
It deeply saddens me that Lordi would be chosen over, say, Wintersun, and many other incredible bands (progressive or not) that are in Finland. Then again, it's not that much of a surprise.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 15:29
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

Why would any self-respecting Prog band want to subject themselves to the celebration of the lowest common denominator that is Eurovision?

Imagine Sigur Ros getting beaten by some half-baked mutants in fancy dress for next to last place...
The dreaded "nil points"

I suspect Nightwish would have done okay but like you say Tony, I can't imagine any prog band wanting to touch Eurovision with the proverbial barge pole.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 15:36
Rick Wakeman would do it and ELP probably......Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 16:00
I thought it was a dire song.There were actually 3 songs I liked! (for the record Norway,Turkey and Croatia).
 
Norway had the best presentation by far Approve
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 17:11
^ Hmm, what makes you say that Richard?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 17:36
No, specially because the costumes where either intimidating (hard to watch) or plainly ridiculous, so it was hard to watch them, I mean there were even kids seeing Lordis in their sleep after the show. The second point I'd like to add was that the song was BAD, it was not metal, it was not rock, it was not pop, it was not prog. It was this wretched mixture between rock and pop, just nasty stuff (in my opinion of course).
...Histoires Sans Paroles...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 17:39
And yes, Nightwish, Sonata Arctica or even Stratovarius (in their good old days) would have been really nice to watch and listen to.
...Histoires Sans Paroles...
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crucify_the_ego View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 18:04
No band who are actually good will go near Eurovision, as, nowadays, appearing on it is basically the end of your career.

That said, I found Lordi utterly hilarious, and, to be honest, nowhere near as bad as most of the musicians on thee. And that a capella group ... wow, they were talented.

Let's face it though, the only reason to watch it is Terry Wogan.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 18:08
Originally posted by crucify_the_ego crucify_the_ego wrote:

Let's face it though, the only reason to watch it is Terry Wogan.


Definitely!!! ............although one year I was camping, and I actually heard some on the radio and Ken Bruce's Radio 2 was just as funny! Apparently they share a booth and get drunk all throughout the evening on "bailey's" (euch horrid stuff!)


    
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 18:32
I can't believe my eyes - progheads discuss Eurovision!
IMO Eurovision is a musical event for people who don't need music at all.
Participation in it is rather a shame than a honour for any serious artist. 
Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 18:51
I'll see a Lordi video on Youtube.com, and I'll give you my opinion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 19:12
Well, I saw "Hard Rock Alleluyah", a metallized rock/pop simple song, VERY, VERY commercial (and a bit bad, really........) The monsters are very well done, funny !! It's FAR of being Prog. I think they can have a commercial succes in the future (MTV, Muchmusic, etc......)
Overall, just another commercial band with good image, that scares me..... LOL
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Tony Fisher View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 19:23
Originally posted by crucify_the_ego crucify_the_ego wrote:

No band who are actually good will go near Eurovision, as, nowadays, appearing on it is basically the end of your career.



Wrong! Tell Lordi that as their sales go through the roof and every festival signs them up.  Winning Eurovision will catapult them into the limelight with a wider fan base and good luck to them for having the guts to be different. It was a catchy commercial rock song with a good riff, sing along chorus and fun lyrics. The 6th form rock/prog fans have been playing it in the common room today to annoy the dance and rap fans. My son (a metal/hard rock fan) thinks it's great and so do I. Not the greatest music, but great fun. Christ, I even VOTED for it (and I've never watched Eurovision before).

But the point is this: it's a song from an unfashionable genre (like prog) and they play real (ie guitars, keys!) instruments, so it may stem the tide of dross that is standard Eurovision fare and encourage a few decent bands (even prog ones) to have a go.


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