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BaldFriede 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
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Points: 10266
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 Topic: Cha-cha-cha in VdGG’s "Sleepwalkers"
Posted: April 20 2006 at 18:24 |
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The cha-cha-cha in VdGG's "Sleepwalkers" has been critisized by Sean
Trane and Tony Fisher (I just read his review of "Godbluff"). My
personal opinion is they miss the point of it completely. Sure, they
play a perfect saloon cha-cha-cha for a few bars, but they then rev up a
gear and tear it apart brutally. In my opinion this supports the lyrics
perfectly; the mindless animation of the "Sleepwalkers" is accurately
mimicked with this. For me this passage is one of the high points of
the song. What is your opinion?
Edited by BaldFriede
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: April 20 2006 at 18:36 |
I just listened now to it.
I agree with you. It's excellent.
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Flip_Stone
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Joined: August 11 2005
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Posted: April 20 2006 at 18:48 |
I like it. It's short and fun. It comes out of nowhere, and then goes away when the band kicks back into the heavy prog.
Those who don't like it have shown other examples of similar narrow-mindedness in the past. A closed mind is a complaining and annoying mind. Just ignore them and their noise.
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Bj-1
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Posted: April 20 2006 at 18:50 |
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I have never had a problem with that part. I kinda' like it, actually!
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RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!
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Greg W
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Location: Chicago
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Posted: April 20 2006 at 18:54 |
The cha cha is the highpoint of this great tune.  . Those two just lack a sense of humour.
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bucka001
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Posted: April 20 2006 at 19:38 |
When I was in college back in the 80s, we used to crack ourselves up by saying that we wanted that cha cha cha bit played as we walked up the aisle during graduation, as it perfectly suited our twisted states of mind at the time - basically trooping along aimlessly like sheep in our waking lives.
That part of the song is hailarious and frighteningly dark at the same time. It's brilliant. It's also very Banton-esque; it displays his sense of humor perfectly. HB was off building his organ when the rest of the band got much of Godbluff together. By the time they were arranging Sleepwalkers, he was fully involved again. HB from Van der Graaf Generator - The Book (p.201): "Keen-eared analysts will be able to spot that Arrow and Undercover Man in particular - which the other three had already part developed - do not have the usual manic Banton elaborations of, say, Sleepwalkers, where I was firmly back on the case! 'Hey, let's play cha-cha-cha at this point...' 'OK!'"
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jc
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
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Points: 166183
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Posted: April 20 2006 at 22:05 |
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I like it.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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chamberry
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Posted: April 20 2006 at 22:12 |
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If it wasn't for the cha cha cha part I wouldn't even like the album
and probably lost interest. That was the part that got my atention and
keep listening to the album.
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Zoso
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Joined: March 29 2006
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Points: 501
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Posted: April 20 2006 at 22:25 |
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I'm listening to Godbluff for the very first time right now, and The
Sleepwalkers is coming up next. I'll have to get back to you guys on
this one.
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Rorro
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Joined: December 31 2005
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Points: 508
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Posted: April 21 2006 at 02:45 |
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I love that part, in fact that helped the song to be one of my favourites VDGG songs.
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Sean Trane
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Posted: April 21 2006 at 03:47 |
 chamberry wrote:
If it wasn't for the cha cha cha part I wouldn't even like the album and probably lost interest. That was the part that got my atention and keep listening to the album. |
You mean to tell me that if it was not for those Cha Cha Cha (played twice and max 5 second in total), you would not like the album  >>> Man YOU ARE STRANGE 
I still confirm my dislike of cha cha cha in that particular track (I do not care for the dance either, BTW ), but it is partly because VDGG is not a band known for its humour (I think the cha cha cha bit in a Caravan or in a Genesis track would've been great  ) , but in this case it provides what I feel is unecessary break into the track, too light-hearted for the subject discussed.
BTW : I checked up on that review of mine, and apparently only the first version of the review I made from that album is apparent . I had edited twice once in late 04 and another time in september 05, when I rewrote almost all of my VDGG reviews. Not only have the recent changes made disappear this rewritten review, but it has wiped out my review of Still Life and the one from World Record is also not the latest version
Edited by Sean Trane - April 21 2006 at 04:36
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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video vertigo
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Joined: September 17 2004
Location: United States
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Points: 1930
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Posted: April 21 2006 at 04:02 |
where exactly is this "cha-cha" part. I'm not quite sure what everybody's getting at here.
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"The rock and roll business is pretty absurd, but the world of serious music is much worse." - Zappa
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Online
Points: 20413
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Posted: April 21 2006 at 04:03 |
Flip_Stone wrote:
IThose who don't like it have shown other examples of similar narrow-mindedness in the past. A closed mind is a complaining and annoying mind. Just ignore them and their noise.
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Actually just to prove your obtuse and stupid opinion wrong , Tony and I, might have been on opposite sides of the Strawbs thread you are thinking of , but we actually agree on this issue and we did not consult each other on this issue, which means that if anybody is closed minded, you might be advised to take a good look in the mirror , Mr stone(r)
Something that you seem completrely unable to do.
I suppose the only thing you have to do after this message is shut your mean trap in complete shame and make yourself forgotten for as long as possible.
And just above is the post I explain why I do not like that passage. It is the perfect analysis, of why something can be wrong, quaint or quirky about such an intervention.
Edited by Sean Trane - April 21 2006 at 04:38
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Online
Points: 20413
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Posted: April 21 2006 at 04:07 |
video vertigo wrote:
where exactly is this "cha-cha" part. I'm not quite sure what everybody's getting at here. |
this last around two seconds but occurs on two different occasions. the music breaks into a three identical note which could also be read as "Boom Boom Boom".
this refers to a dance from the 30's that was generally between swing jazz and argentinian tango and finished on this chacha cha , where you would clap hands three times and stomp foot three times also along with the musicians.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: April 21 2006 at 06:46 |
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The cha-cha-cha part appears after the following lines of the song:
"In time the whole raw world
will pace these same steps on
into the same bitter end".
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 A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: April 21 2006 at 06:47 |
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On the contray, Sean, it is not lighthearted at all, as they quickly show when they rip that cha-cha-cha apart.
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
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Posted: April 21 2006 at 07:00 |
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I don't want to be pedantic(or do I?) but its a "Cha-cha" not a "Cha- cha-cha".
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: April 21 2006 at 07:05 |
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some call it "cha-cha", others "cha-cha-cha". both names exist. I
prefer the latter name, because it is onomatopoetic for a certain
pattern in the music (in the "Sleepwalkers" version the last 3 notes
before they tear it apart). there even is a movie named "Cha-cha-cha" (1998, directed by Antonio del Real)
Edited by BaldJean - April 21 2006 at 07:08
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: April 21 2006 at 07:07 |
Well all I can say is I never heard that dance referred to as a Cha-cha cha.
I just did a search...its definitely Cha-cha.
If some say different they err.
Edited by Snow Dog - April 21 2006 at 07:09
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Joren
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Joined: February 07 2004
Location: Netherlands
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Posted: April 21 2006 at 07:11 |
The cha-cha-cha part fits perfectly in the song. The passage that precedes it already has a similar rhythm, and the passage that comes afterwards as well... and in the passage after that passage parts of that rhythm return as well. All in all, the development of the theme (or rhythmic pattern, as you wish) lasts from 2:52 till 4:03, so all in all the construction lasts a lot more than the 5 seconds you mention Sean. Agreed, the "real" cha-cha-cha part lasts only 25 seconds (3:04-3:29), but it is well-embedded, -integrated and -developed in the context of the song (like I explained above). I think it's brilliant, just like the rest of the song. 
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Cha-cha-cha in VdGG’s "Sleepwalkers"
. This is about people manageing their differences of opinion in complete peace and harmony.