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TOD KREMER 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 30 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 106
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 Topic: Hardest Bad Player To Overlook
Posted: April 07 2006 at 00:36 |
Many bands have weak links (you can debate who they may be all you want) but which particular instrumentalist in general is the most difficult to overlook when you are trying to enjoy a progressive album and this fellow is just not keeping up?
For me, it would be the singer (for instance, James LaBrie just kills DT for me when otherwise they would probably be my favorite modern prog band). Others feel the same way about Geddy.
Trespass is hard for me to listen to because John Silver's shortcomings (on drums) are actually distracting. I wish drums were more accomplished on alot of albums because I have been spoiled by the "greats".
For me, it would be bad singer the biggest killer, followed by bad drummer.
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SirPsycho388
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 09 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 697
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 00:59 |
 TOD KREMER wrote:
For me, it would be bad singer the biggest killer, followed by bad drummer.
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I completey agree. The voice of a band stands out the most, so when the message of the song is trying to be portrayed through a terrible voice - it just makes you wanted throw the record out the window!
And by being a drummer myself, i can't stand to listen to bad drummers. My interpretation of "bad" is someone who plays inappropriately - too simplistic in a complex setting, or too complex in a simplistic setting. Even someone who bashes and overplays when a song is chill and quiet. You get what i mean.
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Strangers passing in the street by chance two separate glances meet and I am you and what I see is me. And do I take you by the hand and lead you through the land and help me understand the best I can
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Black Mog
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 12 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 67
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 01:12 |
For me i go for bad singer...
Many good band could be so different(better) if they have another singer(when i talk about a bad singer, i didnt say he sing bad.. i say he does'nt go with the sound of the band) For me a good singer is a singer who give you the impression that his voice is an intrument :P
Example of singer who sound bad for me for me are:
Dream Theater - Sorry but its the kind of vocals i would like to have in a power metal band...
Coheed and Cambria - I really like this band...but i recognize that its will be a lot better(accessible) with a vocal least acute( why coheed and Cambria are sometimes considered as EMO )
The dillinger Escape Plan - Ouch !!! please we absolutely want to hear the instrumental side.
Ice Age - What the hell... i have sometimes the impression that Dennis the young is the singer of this band.
An example for me of singer who totally goes with the music is Riverside, Opeth, Dredg, Pink Floyd, Radiohead :P and many other
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2 Rights make 1 Wrong
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Masque
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 01 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 808
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 01:20 |
SirPsycho388 wrote:
TOD KREMER wrote:
For me, it would be bad singer the biggest killer, followed by bad drummer.
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I completey agree. The voice of a band stands out the most, so when the message of the song is trying to be portrayed through a terrible voice - it just makes you wanted throw the record out the window!
And by being a drummer myself, i can't stand to listen to bad drummers. My interpretation of "bad" is someone who plays inappropriately - too simplistic in a complex setting, or too complex in a simplistic setting. Even someone who bashes and overplays when a song is chill and quiet. You get what i mean.
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sometimes the drummer can`t win .. if he is in a band thats not very interesting and overplays to try and save the bands musical reputation, hes a bad drummer, if hes in a complex rather interesting musical band and decide to just keep time hes a bad drummer  thats myexperiencee at being a drummer in bands and one of the reasons i`m why I`m not a drummer in a band anymore . Yet I was told by people I don`t even know i`m a great drummer all the time. (peart cross ehart) is my style but the blokes I was playing with only ever complained about me. Listening to tapes recently of the years I was in a band I have to admit I did go off a little bit to much but that wouldn`t have happened if they had of shown more enthusiasm in what they were meant to be doing , a drummer needs a decent bass player without that he is going to be a bad drummer.
Edited by Masque
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Rorro
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 31 2005
Location: Uruguay
Status: Offline
Points: 508
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 02:29 |
bad drumming is as bad as bad singing
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 02:33 |
Drummer. Without a good drummer it all falls apart. Listen to "Sommerabend" by Novalis, and you'll know what I mean. 
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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UnknownFlow
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 06 2006
Location: Oxford
Status: Offline
Points: 85
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 03:13 |
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For me it would be bad Guitar or Keyboard playing, it's not as commen
but seeing as your holding quite a firm bit of ground in a band to be
messing that up can be pretty distracting.
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ANDREW
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 3064
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 08:26 |
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Drummer
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Empathy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1864
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 10:04 |
I find my playing is painfully bad, and hard to get past.
Seriously, though... a bad drummer is pretty tough to get past, for me.
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Pure Brilliance:
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Single Coil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 29 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 301
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 10:31 |
Bad Singer - I really don't listen to the singer as much as the rest of the band - but I just never end up giving the band a chance if I can't stand the singer.
Bad Guitarist - Probably since I play guitar.... my favorite bands have a lot of guitar compared to keyboards, so there's alot riding on the guitar player in the group for me.
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If it's worth playing, it's worth playing loud!
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Time-Machinist
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2006
Location: Museum
Status: Offline
Points: 182
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 10:37 |
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Drummer, and then singer IMO...
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goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 10:44 |
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The drummer, because if he can't play he makes everyone sound wrong.
While the singer is often the focus of the band, he's less important than usual in a prog context.
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rushfan6588
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 21 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 202
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 12:48 |
I voted for keyboardist...because prog is known for having extensive solo sections within its music...therefore when the keyboardists turn comes around a poor solo can go a long way towards killing a good song
Also bassist should be mantioned...few drummers can play well without a bassist...Guy Evans being one of the few exceptions.
Also many non or even counter rythim guitar players....Alex Lifeson comes to mind...thrive on a adequate bassist to be the perverbial glue that holds the song together.
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 13:34 |
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As I cannot play any instrument, it is harder for me to actually recognise bad playing (unless we're talking about punk!), so I voted for the singer. Then, I must admit I have a weakness for singers who can really sing: "unique" voices (in many cases a euphemism for bad) just don't do it for me, I'm afraid. The one possible exception is Roger Waters, who is in my opinion a very expressive singer, though his vocals are far from perfect.
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Hierophant
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 11 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 651
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 14:00 |
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for me DT's weakest link is the drumming - portnoy's playing does nothing for me
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166183
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 15:51 |
How about lyricist 
But ill vote for singer. Though most singers don't bother me, so its hard for me to use that excuse with bands i dont like.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Ghandi 2
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1494
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 17:44 |
Singing. I would really like Rush if only Geddy would SHUT UP AND PLAY HIS GUITAR!
After that, probably lyricist *cough* ClosetotheEdgeandFrancestheMute *cough* followed by drummer and guitarist.
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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 17:52 |
Bassist can really make bands great. If a band has a great guitarist or keyboardist, big deal, every band has at least one great musician. When a bassist is great, he makes his whole band better. He gives other musicians a chance to play more interesting parts, and he himself can add a whole new character to a band. I would give many bands much better reviews if they only had good bassist.
Bad bassist can totally break an album. The grooves to the songs are much simpler and boring. The chords loose musical innovation, and so many things can go wrong. Any idea what's it's like to listen to a great drummer and have a bass player rush the groove? Any idea what's it's like to hear a great guitarist solo over the wrong chords? It's not that the drummer is rushing or the guitarist is in the wrong key, it's the bass player making all of the musicians around him sound worse.
Now you're looking at my signature thinking I'm a bass fanboy...
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
Status: Offline
Points: 28427
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 18:18 |
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Singer.Bad vocals just act on my nerves... though I'm yet to meet a prog band where the singer would annoy me.
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cowbell1
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 06 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 86
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 20:03 |
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Really this is no question to any genera of music.
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Hardest Bad Player To Overlook
