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dojonane ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: March 21 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 76 |
![]() Posted: March 24 2006 at 01:59 |
My querry is one of a more pluralistic (read: non musical) nature so I
won't feel all dejected like if no one takes interest, but I thought, what the hey, there are other themes that re-appear in progressive rock that are perhaps non musical but imply more a life style or ideology at play. One of them that's always pricked my curiosity is Paganism i.e. themes pertaining to early earth based religions, mystery cults, arcane rites, cultural myths being portrayed through song and the like. It seems to pop up in countless references via so many bands I adore and have repeatedly returned to for a whisp of that mysterious, almost primal interpretation of symbols and forces and the like. Okay, I know your thinking: bring out the midget stonhenge right? Hahaha well ultimately, I'm wondering, are there any others out there that have any theories on why this energy seems to permeate alot of the narrative themes and art associated with prog music. Question two is just for initiates: are there any among you who would go so far as to count yourself as a Pagan, or even a more expansive pantheistic view of divinity that perhaps monotheistic traditions of the day often frown upon? I'm not just talking Dungeons & Dragons here people. I'm just curious as to how many proggies actually 'feel' that essence that so many of the musicians tend to or if it all comes across as camp/ novelty to you? Pre-advanced apologies to any die-hard Neal Morse fans who will indubitably have this site fed through the digibless online sanctifying server! |
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Hierophant ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: March 11 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 651 |
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How Danny Carey (Tool) sets up his drums...
"Danny then set up his drums into proportions utilizing the circle and square of the New Jerusalem and uttered a short prayer relating to the principles of the ace of swords from the book of Thoth. He then performed a ritual utilizing his new found knowledge of the unicursal hexagram to generate a pattern of movement in space relating to Fuller's vector equilibrium model. The resulting rhythm and gateway summoned a daemon he has contained within "the Lodge" that has been delivering short parables similar to passages within the Book of Lies. Danny recommends as a device of protection and containment a thorough study and utilization of the underlying geometry of the Temple of Solomon for anyone purchasing their next record." |
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dojonane ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: March 21 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 76 |
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Hahahaha, I had a feeling the tone of this might take a turn for the absurd. Not that it offputs me, there's obviously a lot to laugh at in how seriously some of these metaphysical madmen take themselves. Still though, how do YOU feel about this business? Frankly, I'm amazed by mankind's mythic past. |
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Paco Fox ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 10 2004 Location: Spain Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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I can't consider my self a paganist, but, when talking about religion, many have told me my personal vision may be close to some pagan beliefs, mixed up with a certain thought that is common to most religions: 'let's be nice with one another for a change'. In the prog field, there's a very pagan oriented album I moderatly like called 'Triple Aspect' by a rare english band called 'Legend' that pagan interested proggers may like.
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BaldFriede ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 02 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10266 |
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Jean and I are High Priestesses of a pagan religion that worships Gaia, the ancient Greek Goddess of the Earth. |
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![]() BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
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Easy Livin ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
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We shall see how (and if) this thread develops. If it becomes a mainly discussion about paganism, it will be relocated to the "Discussions not related to music" section. |
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BaldFriede ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 02 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10266 |
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Jean and I are High Priestesses of a pagan religion that worships Gaia, the ancient Greek Goddess of the Earth. And we are prog musicians. There, is that better? ![]() |
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![]() BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
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Easy Livin ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
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BaldFriede ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 02 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10266 |
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"Xitintoday" by Nik Turner's Sphynx is a record about the Gods of the ancient Egyptians, based on the Egyptian "Book of the Dead". In fact Nik Turner recorded two albums on this theme, with exactly the same lyrics, but with different musicans, one in 1978 with the help of musicians from Gong and Hawkwind and a few others. The 90s album was recorded together with guitarist Helios Creed. The 1978 album is the better one, in my opinion, but it only came out on vinyl. Virgin, who own the rights to the Charisma label, should definitely reissue that album on CD; our vinyl version is almost worn out meanwhile.
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![]() BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
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ElwoodHerring ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: November 12 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 232 |
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Rick Wakeman's "No Earthly Connection" sounds very pagan to me; although Rick himself is a Christian. The music comes across as very earthy and elemental, especially the first half of "Music Reincarnate".
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[IMG]http://www.herring.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DRMkillb.JPG">
Right the Copyright Wrongs (Bill Thompson's BBC blog - essential reading!) |
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Rocktopus ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 02 2006 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 4202 |
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There is of course that obvious connection with rock concerts (and rock
gods) and the ecstatic, worshipping orgies of ancient greek god
Dionysos (or Roman equivalent Bacchus). Rock music seen as an
freedomseeking, uncontrollable and dangerous force. An enemy of
organised religion and modern society.
Knowing that modern life is destroying life on Earth, also makes it healthy to look for inspiration in earth based religions. Artists are outsiders and its natural for them (hm...us) to question our way of life. And to look for alternatives. Writing about pagan life or paginist beliefs is ultimately asking existensial questions. Like all great art. Robin Hardy's disturbing cult film 'The Wicker Man' from '73, shows the meeting of modern life and religion portrayed as a deeply christian policeman, while investegating the disseappering of a girl in a paganist society. Its a film that actually fits very nicely along with a lot of british progressive rock albums of the same era. And it has a great folk soundtrack. I'm sure most of you have seen it. That film and Comus even more disturbing album and masterpiece 'First Utterance' '71 feels closely related. I wouldn't count myself as Pagan or anything else. But if any, organised religions are the ones that deserves to be ridiculed and frowned upon. |
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
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sleeper ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: October 09 2005 Location: Entropia Status: Offline Points: 16449 |
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IMO bands tend to write about these pagan myths and legends because there far more interesting than the current monotheistic religions. As for myself I'm an atheist. |
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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dojonane ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: March 21 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 76 |
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No sir, can't say as I have seen it. It sounds absolutely fascinating though. Is it available online anywhere? Ive seen very few films that explore the theme of a clash between the early insurgency of Christianity and Paganism (without counting the obvious, yet still incredibly valuable mythic accounts such as 'Excalibur' and the new 'Beowulf & Grendel') Speaking of Beowulf & Grendel, not sure how many of you Marillionites are reading this but did you notice the main theme from the film follows the same chord progression as appears on the supposed magnum epic 'Grendel' during the verses. The film even takes on an empathetic perspective revealing the inner workings and humility of the beast, which is also apparently the angle Fish had written the song from (i.e. not portraying Grendel as a mere blood thirsty behemoth but as a kind of noble savage taking back what was taken in the first!) The song is convincing at times but sadly (as with much of early Marillion) recycles the same themes and ideas too often to stay truly dynamic for 18 minutes. I still love it somehow though, regardless of its avoiding the classic status. And one more thing, Rocktopus, our minds are bred from the same stuff! I'm so pleased to find someone who responds positively to my own weird muse, consistently. I checked out your paintings, absolutely inspiring, indellible technique and such subtly bizarre subjects. Are you a fan of Max Ernst? (my personal god, in the pagan sense ) ![]() |
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chamberry ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 24 2005 Location: Puerto Rico Status: Offline Points: 9008 |
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Mago de Oz's album Gaia talks about a very touching (and a controversy surrounding it) story concerning the new world, the aztecs, executions and Gaia itself. I must say that I respect people with your belief. It has so many good cualities and how you look at life and the world is a very interesting sight to see. |
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Flyingsod ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: March 19 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 564 |
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I usually tell people I'm a pagan and proud of it. Actually I am a wannabe pagan. If I could actually belive in supernatural beings it would have to be something involving Mother Earth. Pretty much though, to be more accurate, I am an existentialist. Somehow though I have a very deep spiritual affinity for the earth, maybe becuase I was born here and live here.
I'll go for the obvious mention since no one else has. Jon Anderson solo albums. I really dont see all that much paganism in progressive music. In fact if you discount classical mythology references and obscure music I'd be hard pressed to site 5 instances of it. Unless of course you were speaking to the mood of the music rather than the lyrics. That would be open to such varied interpretation though. I've done some small research on ancient musics especialy those related to earth based beliefs and I haven't seen any evidence of ancient musical ideas being used in prog. I'm no professor though so im not saying its absolutly not there... |
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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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No, by the contrary, No Earthly Connection's cheesy lyrics are an attempt of Rick to write in Jon Anderson's style, he creates a parallel history of how man developed and lost his musical soul. But his references to The Maker are obviously a reference to God and of course being mentioned one maker we must assume it's monotheist album. Iván |
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dojonane ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: March 21 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 76 |
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Not so much melodic themes or ethnic folk traditions being crystallized in prog itself...more so the dynamism of spirit taking on different incarnations, songs about anthropomorphic qualities for natural forces, personified elements (i.e. I talk to the Wind), metaphysical leanings like pythagoras' concept of the music of the spheres in ascribing melodies to the sun and the like. More primordial and elemental in terms of symbology then distinct narratives relating to Ra of Baphomet or the like, although I'm sure those exist as well...the lyrical themes found in the band Citizen Cain's work often seem to invoke specific entities and call upon a friction between Christianity and something more ancient, taking its toll on the rationalization of belief into such neat little orders... |
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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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You make a point, if there is a gene where I find more Pagan influences is in Medieval Celtic influenced Prog'. Celtic culture had a very strong religion that even managed to survive Catholicism because they blended their traditions with Christian celebrations. Somethuing similar to what was done in Perú by the natives. The Spanish boasted around the world that in Perú the Corpus Christy was celebrated as in no other place in the world, but the truth was that our natives were celebrating the Inti Raymi (The Feast of Inti or the Sun) that is precisely in June. So if you can foind Pagan influences even blended with canonic music is in Folk or more precisely ethnic Prog, but not because the musicians are Pagans, but because of this influence incorporated in Prog. Iván |
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Witchwoodhermit ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 23 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 871 |
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The energy created from music is a purlely spiritualistic experience. How music effects you, changes your mood and demeanor, lifts you to "higher planes". That IS "spirit". Doesn't matter what your taste is, if music is your saviour, you will be uplifted. Demons and wizards are a cool concept for a younger audience, that is true, but romantisism and poetic lyrics will always touch the sensitive spiritual side of our nature. The soul is a passionate flame. What does this have to do with progressive rock? Well, for starters prog offers far more than the top fourty, boy meets girl (boy) or look at my new car(dis me and and kill your ass) stupidity of current "music", and deals more with the intellectual and higher thoughts of lyrical and musical sense and intelligence. In short, prog aims for a higher ground. People who listen to progressive rock are well aware of their taste in music and are extremley proud of it. So are the listeners of all other genres like classical, jazz etc. They find great joy in their music and revell in every cord and lyric played. Thats not to discount the top fourtyers and current music fans. Music is music, it hits us in different ways of importance. What they all do have in common is that- it moves us! Music touches our very soul, our "primal beast", makes us remember that WE are animals on this globe as all the rest. When push comes to shove, when the drum beats, and the voices cry, we ALL respond. I guess thats where paganism comes in. The primal- the true. We all feed off the earth, and we all return. Words no one can refute. The ritual of life is a constant with us, no matter how we see our Gods. One thing is for certain, the music will always PLAY ON. |
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Here I'm shadowed by a dragon fig tree's fan
ringed by ants and musing over man. |
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dojonane ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: March 21 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 76 |
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Breath-takingly put. Sometimes these forums can become so begrudgingly left brain in their purely rational, competitive, quantifying scope (as if percentages amount to more than poems). It nourishes the ladder of my sky-bound narrative to hear another phrase in the terms of a mystic why and from whence the mystery of what brings us here flows. It recalls in me two allusions: A brief poem called 'Nature' which is the prelude to a collection of Emerson's writings: "A subtle chain of countless rings The next unto the farthest brings The eye sees omens where it goes And reads all languages; the rose And striving to be a ma, the worm mounts through all the spires of form." the other is lulled from a Huxley poem entitled 'Philosopher's Song" "But oh the sound of simian mirth, Mind issued from the monkey's womb Is still umbilical to earth Earth it's home and earth it's tomb" Edited by dojonane |
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