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Trotsky 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 25 2004
Location: Malaysia
Status: Offline
Points: 2771
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 Topic: World Leaders
Posted: November 21 2005 at 22:14 |
Okay a wide range of politicians to choose from ... I just wanted to see if there were any leaders around the world actually admired by people on this site ...
NOTE: In China, I've put the Wen/Hu President/Prime Minister duo as a team and for Germany, I've put Shroeder because his successor cannot be judged yet ...
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"Death to Utopia! Death to faith! Death to love! Death to hope?" thunders the 20th century. "Surrender, you pathetic dreamer.”
"No" replies the unhumbled optimist "You are only the present."
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Trotsky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 25 2004
Location: Malaysia
Status: Offline
Points: 2771
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Posted: November 21 2005 at 22:19 |
Yikes, forgot John Howard 
I voted for Sweden's Goran Persson (maybe more about the system he inherited and brought forward than the man himself) ...
"we are doomed" is tempting ... 
My own country's leader Abdullah Badawi is a nice guy but has to deal with the shadow of our former Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad, who was boss for 22 years ... corruption, institutionalized racism and the resulting brain drain are our biggest problems ...
Edited by Trotsky
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"Death to Utopia! Death to faith! Death to love! Death to hope?" thunders the 20th century. "Surrender, you pathetic dreamer.”
"No" replies the unhumbled optimist "You are only the present."
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: November 21 2005 at 22:55 |
If anyone says Kim Jong-Il, BEWARE!!!!! 
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
Status: Offline
Points: 28427
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Posted: November 21 2005 at 22:57 |
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I don't know most of them well, but from the ones I do, Vladimir Putin. I'm Russian and he really making changes for the good. Slowly, but he's dragging the countru out of chaos.
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GoldenSpiral
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3839
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 00:15 |
 stonebeard wrote:
If anyone says Kim Jong-Il, BEWARE!!!!! |
I'm ronery, so ronery
So ronery and sadry arone...
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Baltimore,Md US
Status: Offline
Points: 27802
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 00:23 |
We are doomed
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20240
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 03:18 |
We are doomed is too easy a cop-out for an otherwise extremely interesting poll!!!
Bravo Martin!!
I went with Zapatero! He is still too new to really be judged , but I think he will also stink like they all do after two or three years! But he is not there yet. I also admire the Brazilian Da Silva, so far!!
As an aside , I cannot help myself having a bit of admiration for Castro holding back the US for the last 50 years after his country being completely broke and having his army parading on bike to save up the fuel! Environemental friendly armies - a new concept!!
I still have a lot of sympathy for Hugo Chavez, as he is still trying to help out his country when both the US and the Oligarchy and big industrial bosses are sabotageing the venezuelian econmy.
Qaddaffi is ageing fairly well for an old terrorist! He is becoming a sort of wise-man, much listened to in African circles! Still would not invite him over for dinner!!
Puttin is a modern Tsar , but is it possible to rule Russia any other way?
Among those I hate: Berlusconi (money is only motive), Chirac (the man has moments of brilliance but he is crooked as hell), Bush (no explications necessary), the Korean b*****d Kim Jong Ill, but the Japanese Prime is also a bit of an asshole as he is clearly in favor of re-writing the history books saying Japan was right in WWII.
I actually had Blair in esteem, until he decided to suck up to Bush for the Irak thing. He is going to pay the price for that and his lies in the next elections!!
Edited by Sean Trane
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Andrea Cortese
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 05 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 4411
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 05:50 |
Berlusconi is great!
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: October 21 2005
Location: Terra Brasilis
Status: Offline
Points: 12288
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 05:54 |
Once I admired Blair and also Castro, Lula, Putin and others but they deceived me.
From the list I vote for Zapatero but would like to add some names: Dalai-Lama, Mandela, Clinton.
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Guigo
~~~~~~
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20240
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 05:59 |
Atkingani wrote:
Once I admired Blair and also Castro, Lula, Putin and others but they deceived me.
From the list I vote for Zapatero but would like to add some names: Dalai-Lama, Mandela, Clinton.
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I think we are talking of political leaders in activity here. Or else the pope and Khomeiny would be in the list!
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20240
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 06:00 |
Andrea Cortese wrote:
Berlusconi is great! |
Now I understand more what you are about!!
Still you do not think you are naive???
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Andrea Cortese
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 05 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 4411
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 06:14 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Andrea Cortese wrote:
Berlusconi is great! |
Now I understand more what you are about!!
Still you do not think you are naive???
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No, I simply do not follow the crowd!
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20240
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 07:01 |
Andrea Cortese wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
Andrea Cortese wrote:
Berlusconi is great! |
Now I understand more what you are about!!
Still you do not think you are naive???
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No, I simply do not follow the crowd!
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Well since the crowd is voting in majority for him, you do vote with crowd!!
Do you actually think the man is honest? Destroying the state RAI TV in order to favor his private TVs chains. The man may be the most crooked in Western Europe ! And his dealing with Ligua!!
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Norbert
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 20 2005
Location: Hungary
Status: Offline
Points: 2506
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 07:20 |
Persson and Zapatero are the most tolerable ones from the list.
Many months ago I thought much more of Yushchenko than I do now.
Edited by Norbert
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Andrea Cortese
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 05 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 4411
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 07:23 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Andrea Cortese wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
Andrea Cortese wrote:
Berlusconi is great! |
Now I understand more what you are about!!
Still you do not think you are naive???
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No, I simply do not follow the crowd!
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Well since the crowd is voting in majority for him, you do vote with crowd!!
Do you actually think the man is honest? Destroying the state RAI TV in order to favor his private TVs chains. The man may be the most crooked in Western Europe ! And his dealing with Ligua!!
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Reasoning: if he dominates all italian TVs, why the mass medias (TV, newspapers, radio...) are here against him? 
Rai 3 is a channell which is organized by left-wing journalists, as always.
In his three channels there are many left-wing-personalities! many programs made by tons of journalists or comicals who disagree with him!
Everyday in Italy we continuously hear speaking of Berlusconi: but it is to criticize him. So, do you really know what are you speaking about?
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20240
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 07:57 |
Andrea Cortese wrote:
Reasoning: if he dominates all italian TVs, why the mass medias (TV, newspapers, radio...) are here against him? This is why he wants to destroy all TVs that are against him, to favor the ones he owns who do not question his actions.
Rai 3 is a channell which is organized by left-wing journalists, as always. But Berlusconi would like to do away with that TV! please do not deny against 20 italians colleagues of mine!
In his three channels there are many left-wing-personalities! many programs made by tons of journalists or comicals who disagree with him! But if they actually put him in trouble (like really challenging him), they will have problems!
Everyday in Italy we continuously hear speaking of Berlusconi: but it is to criticize him. So, do you really know what are you speaking about?Actually I work with roughly 20 Italians in my research center and not all are left-wingers! Actually the real right-winged collegues are very typed and serious and fewer sense of humour, although they also love a good laugh at the Trattoria next village! The fact that they are scioentist earning quite a good living , makes them aware that they are lucky and the fact that they drive Lancias Themas or Alfas 166 (there is even a Maserati and a Ferrari), would ensure a right-wing support , but surprinsingly, they loathe Berlusconi.
The vast majority of your countrymen I work with (some have been here for over 15 years, but actually go back on holidays in Italy every time they can because they are all convinced that Italy is the best place around - I will not argue with them because thereis a sense of truth into it - and they suffer from the Dutch weather although they agree that the North Sea air is quite better than the Po valley) are completely ashamed of Berlusconi - my guess is 18 against and 2 for.
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And the best looking pair of eyes belong to Evelina. The classiest of all ladies on site is Ana!!
However the best pair of knockers belong to Hilse!!! and the best piece of arse is ....... None of your business!!!
Edited by Sean Trane
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
|
|
Atkingani
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: October 21 2005
Location: Terra Brasilis
Status: Offline
Points: 12288
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 08:01 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Atkingani wrote:
Once I admired Blair and also Castro, Lula, Putin and others but they deceived me.
From the list I vote for Zapatero but would like to add some names: Dalai-Lama, Mandela, Clinton.
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I think we are talking of political leaders in activity here. Or else the pope and Khomeiny would be in the list!
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I believe that the Dalai-Lama and Clinton are still active although they don't have an official position by now. Mandela is great by his own.
The Pope should be included since he is de facto a Ruler (of Vatican City).
Edited by Atkingani
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Guigo
~~~~~~
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Andrea Cortese
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 05 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 4411
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 08:51 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Andrea Cortese wrote:
Reasoning: if he dominates all italian TVs, why the mass medias (TV, newspapers, radio...) are here against him? This is why he wants to destroy all TVs that are against him, to favor the ones he owns who do not question his actions.
Rai 3 is a channell which is organized by left-wing journalists, as always. But Berlusconi would like to do away with that TV! please do not deny against 20 italians colleagues of mine!
In his three channels there are many left-wing-personalities! many programs made by tons of journalists or comicals who disagree with him! But if they actually put him in trouble (like really challenging him), they will have problems!
Everyday in Italy we continuously hear speaking of Berlusconi: but it is to criticize him. So, do you really know what are you speaking about?Actually I work with roughly 20 Italians in my research center and not all are left-wingers! Actually the real right-winged collegues are very typed and serious and fewer sense of humour, although they also love a good laugh at the Trattoria next village! The fact that they are scioentist earning quite a good living , makes them aware that they are lucky and the fact that they drive Lancias Themas or Alfas 166 (there is even a Maserati and a Ferrari), would ensure a right-wing support , but surprinsingly, they loathe Berlusconi.
The vast majority of your countrymen I work with (some have been here for over 15 years, but actually go back on holidays in Italy every time they can because they are all convinced that Italy is the best place around - I will not argue with them because thereis a sense of truth into it - and they suffer from the Dutch weather although they agree that the North Sea air is quite better than the Po valley) are completely ashamed of Berlusconi - my guess is 18 against and 2 for.
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And the best looking pair of eyes belong to Evelina. The classiest of all ladies on site is Ana!!
However the best pair of knockers belong to Hilse!!! and the best piece of arse is ....... None of your business!!!
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BTW we have to count votes, after elections, not before!
Why I cannot disagree with other italian people? Do they are more italians than me?
...ah! I know...I'm naive.....!!
BTW that's the proof I do not (and I will not) follow the crowd!
Edited by Andrea Cortese
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Andrea Cortese
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 05 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 4411
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 08:59 |
The Miracle wrote:
I don't know most of them well, but from the ones I do, Vladimir Putin. I'm Russian and he really making changes for the good. Slowly, but he's dragging the countru out of chaos. |
I do agree with you, Miracle. I've always liked Russian History and Culture since I discovered (when I was just a school-boy) that "Czar" derives from the latin "Caesar"!
How about to spend holidays in Soci (Black Sea, or not?)? Is it a great and wonderful place?
Edited by Andrea Cortese
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20240
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Posted: November 22 2005 at 09:52 |
Andrea Cortese wrote:
BTW we have to count votes, after elections, not before!
Why I cannot disagree with other italian people? Do they are more italians than me?
...ah! I know...I'm naive.....!!
BTW that's the proof I do not (and I will not) follow the crowd!
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But those 20 persons are maybe not that representative of Itally since 2/3 of them are Scientist (and obviously higher educated - all are post-doc Uni) and the others are technicians (and two of them union rep), asistants , infrastructure workers and administrative(the famous Evelina).
As I tried to say, they have been here for a relatively long time, so they are less likely to follow-up on internal politics, but are likely to be far more severe on the external politics of their country, which is making them cringe a lot.
I never meant to say they were more representative of Italians than you.
But if I may say , the majotity of italian immigrants in Belgium (most of them living in Charleroi and Ličge) are also rather against Berlusconi , but their profile is radically different , since they were driven by misery after WWII and have flooded to coal mines and steel mills.
Anyway, go on closing your eyes !!!
Edited by Sean Trane
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
|
|
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World Leaders
