Okay a wide range of politicians to choose from ... I just wanted to see if there were any leaders around the world actually admired by people on this site ...

NOTE: In China, I've put the Wen/Hu President/Prime Minister duo as a team and for Germany, I've put Shroeder because his successor cannot be judged yet ...

Yikes, forgot John Howard

I voted for Sweden's Goran Persson (maybe more about the system he inherited and brought forward than the man himself) ...

"we are doomed" is tempting ...

My own country's leader Abdullah Badawi is a nice guy but has to deal with the shadow of our former Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad, who was boss for 22 years ... corruption, institutionalized racism and the resulting brain drain are our biggest problems ...

We are doomed is too easy a cop-out for an otherwise extremely interesting poll!!!

Bravo Martin!!

I went with Zapatero! He is still too new to really be judged , but I think he will also stink like they all do after two or three years! But he is not there yet. I also admire the Brazilian Da Silva, so far!!

As an aside , I cannot help myself having a bit of admiration for Castro holding back the US for the last 50 years after his country being completely broke and having his army parading on bike to save up the fuel! Environemental friendly armies - a new concept!!

I still have a lot of sympathy for Hugo Chavez, as he is still trying to help out his country when both the US and the Oligarchy and big industrial bosses are sabotageing the venezuelian econmy.

Qaddaffi is ageing fairly well for an old terrorist! He is becoming a sort of wise-man, much listened to in African circles! Still would not invite him over for dinner!!

Puttin is a modern Tsar, but is it possible to rule Russia any other way?

Among those I hate: Berlusconi (money is only motive), Chirac (the man has moments of brilliance but he is crooked as hell), Bush (no explications necessary), the Korean b*****d Kim Jong Ill, but the Japanese Prime is also a bit of an asshole as he is clearly in favor of re-writing the history books saying Japan was right in WWII.

I actually had Blair in esteem, until he decided to suck up to Bush for the Irak thing. He is going to pay the price for that and his lies in the next elections!!

Once I admired Blair and also Castro, Lula, Putin and others but they deceived me.

From the list I vote for Zapatero but would like to add some names: Dalai-Lama, Mandela, Clinton.

Atkingani wrote: Once I admired Blair and also Castro, Lula, Putin and others but they deceived me. From the list I vote for Zapatero but would like to add some names: Dalai-Lama, Mandela, Clinton.

I think we are talking of political leaders in  activity here. Or else the pope and Khomeiny would be in the list!

Andrea Cortese wrote: Berlusconi is great!

Now I understand more what you are about!!

Still you do not think you are naive???

Sean Trane wrote: Andrea Cortese wrote: Berlusconi is great! Now I understand more what you are about!! Still you do not think you are naive???

No, I simply do not follow the crowd!

Andrea Cortese wrote: Sean Trane wrote: Andrea Cortese wrote: Berlusconi is great! Now I understand more what you are about!! Still you do not think you are naive??? No, I simply do not follow the crowd!

Well since the crowd is voting in majority for him, you do vote with crowd!!

Do you actually think the man is honest? Destroying the state RAI TV in order to favor his private TVs chains. The man may be the most crooked in Western Europe ! And his dealing with Ligua!!

 Persson and Zapatero are the most tolerable ones from the list.

  Many months ago I thought much more of Yushchenko than   I do now.

Sean Trane wrote: Andrea Cortese wrote: Sean Trane wrote: Andrea Cortese wrote: Berlusconi is great! Now I understand more what you are about!! Still you do not think you are naive??? No, I simply do not follow the crowd! Well since the crowd is voting in majority for him, you do vote with crowd!! Do you actually think the man is honest? Destroying the state RAI TV in order to favor his private TVs chains. The man may be the most crooked in Western Europe ! And his dealing with Ligua!!

Reasoning: if he dominates all italian TVs, why the mass medias (TV, newspapers, radio...) are here against him?

Rai 3 is a channell which is organized by left-wing journalists, as always.

In his three channels there are many left-wing-personalities! many programs made by tons of journalists or comicals who disagree with him!

Everyday in Italy we continuously hear speaking of Berlusconi: but it is to criticize him.  So, do you really know what are you speaking about?

Andrea Cortese wrote: Reasoning: if he dominates all italian TVs, why the mass medias (TV, newspapers, radio...) are here against him?  This is why he wants to destroy all TVs that are against him, to favor the ones he owns who do not question his actions. Rai 3 is a channell which is organized by left-wing journalists, as always. But Berlusconi would like to do away with that TV! please do not deny against 20 italians colleagues of mine! In his three channels there are many left-wing-personalities! many programs made by tons of journalists or comicals who disagree with him! But if they actually put him in trouble (like really challenging him), they will have problems! Everyday in Italy we continuously hear speaking of Berlusconi: but it is to criticize him.  So, do you really know what are you speaking about?Actually I work with roughly 20 Italians in my research center and not all are left-wingers! Actually the real right-winged collegues are very typed and serious and fewer sense of humour, although they also love a good laugh at the Trattoria next village! The fact that they are scioentist earning quite a good living , makes them aware that they are lucky and the fact that they drive Lancias Themas or Alfas 166 (there is even a Maserati and a Ferrari), would ensure a right-wing support , but surprinsingly, they loathe Berlusconi. The vast majority of your countrymen I work with (some have been here for over 15 years, but actually go back on holidays in Italy every time they can because they are all convinced that Italy is the best place around - I will not argue with them because thereis a sense of truth into it - and they suffer from the Dutch weather although they agree that the North Sea air is quite better than the Po valley) are completely ashamed of Berlusconi - my guess is 18 against and 2 for.

And the best looking pair of eyes belong to Evelina. The classiest of all ladies on site is Ana!!

However the best pair of knockers belong to Hilse!!! and the best piece of arse is ....... None of your business!!!

Sean Trane wrote: Atkingani wrote: Once I admired Blair and also Castro, Lula, Putin and others but they deceived me. From the list I vote for Zapatero but would like to add some names: Dalai-Lama, Mandela, Clinton.   I think we are talking of political leaders in  activity here. Or else the pope and Khomeiny would be in the list!

I believe that the Dalai-Lama and Clinton are still active although they don't have an official position by now. Mandela is great by his own.

The Pope should be included since he is de facto a Ruler (of Vatican City).

Sean Trane wrote: Andrea Cortese wrote: Reasoning: if he dominates all italian TVs, why the mass medias (TV, newspapers, radio...) are here against him?  This is why he wants to destroy all TVs that are against him, to favor the ones he owns who do not question his actions. Rai 3 is a channell which is organized by left-wing journalists, as always. But Berlusconi would like to do away with that TV! please do not deny against 20 italians colleagues of mine! In his three channels there are many left-wing-personalities! many programs made by tons of journalists or comicals who disagree with him! But if they actually put him in trouble (like really challenging him), they will have problems! Everyday in Italy we continuously hear speaking of Berlusconi: but it is to criticize him.  So, do you really know what are you speaking about?Actually I work with roughly 20 Italians in my research center and not all are left-wingers! Actually the real right-winged collegues are very typed and serious and fewer sense of humour, although they also love a good laugh at the Trattoria next village! The fact that they are scioentist earning quite a good living , makes them aware that they are lucky and the fact that they drive Lancias Themas or Alfas 166 (there is even a Maserati and a Ferrari), would ensure a right-wing support , but surprinsingly, they loathe Berlusconi. The vast majority of your countrymen I work with (some have been here for over 15 years, but actually go back on holidays in Italy every time they can because they are all convinced that Italy is the best place around - I will not argue with them because thereis a sense of truth into it - and they suffer from the Dutch weather although they agree that the North Sea air is quite better than the Po valley) are completely ashamed of Berlusconi - my guess is 18 against and 2 for.   And the best looking pair of eyes belong to Evelina. The classiest of all ladies on site is Ana!! However the best pair of knockers belong to Hilse!!! and the best piece of arse is ....... None of your business!!!

BTW we have to count votes, after elections, not before!

Why I cannot disagree with other italian people? Do they are more italians than me?

...ah! I know...I'm naive.....!!

BTW that's the proof I do not (and I will not) follow the crowd!

The Miracle wrote: I don't know most of them well, but from the ones I do, Vladimir Putin. I'm Russian and he really making changes for the good. Slowly, but he's dragging the countru out of chaos.

I do agree with you, Miracle. I've always liked Russian History and Culture since I discovered (when I was just a school-boy) that "Czar" derives from the latin "Caesar"!

How about to spend holidays in Soci (Black Sea, or not?)? Is it a great and wonderful place?

Andrea Cortese wrote: BTW we have to count votes, after elections, not before! Why I cannot disagree with other italian people? Do they are more italians than me? ...ah! I know...I'm naive.....!! BTW that's the proof I do not (and I will not) follow the crowd!

But those 20 persons are maybe not that representative of Itally since 2/3 of them are Scientist (and obviously higher educated - all are post-doc Uni) and the others are technicians (and two of them union rep), asistants , infrastructure workers and administrative(the famous Evelina).

As I tried to say, they have been here for a relatively long time, so they are less likely to follow-up on internal politics, but are likely to be far more severe on the external politics of their country, which is making them cringe a lot.

I never meant to say they were more representative of Italians than you.

But if I may say , the majotity of italian immigrants in Belgium (most of them living in Charleroi and Liège) are also rather against Berlusconi , but their profile is radically different , since they were driven by misery after WWII and have flooded to coal mines and steel mills.

Anyway, go on closing your eyes !!!

Sean Trane wrote: Andrea Cortese wrote: BTW we have to count votes, after elections, not before! Why I cannot disagree with other italian people? Do they are more italians than me? ...ah! I know...I'm naive.....!! BTW that's the proof I do not (and I will not) follow the crowd! But those 20 persons are maybe not that representative of Itally since 2/3 of them are Scientist (and obviously higher educated - all are post-doc Uni) and the others are technicians (and two of them union rep), asistants , infrastructure workers and administrative(the famous Evelina). As I tried to say, they have been here for a relatively long time, so they are less likely to follow-up on internal politics, but are likely to be far more severe on the external politics of their country, which is making them cringe a lot. I never meant to say they were more representative of Italians than you. But if I may say , the majotity of italian immigrants in Belgium (most of them living in Charleroi and Liège) are also rather against Berlusconi , but their profile is radically different , since they were driven by misery after WWII and have flooded to coal mines and steel mills. Anyway, go on closing your eyes !!!

I am a lawyer! I'm obviously higher educated and post-doc UNI (in Padua) too!!

Never thought this means my politics' opinions are better (or has more dignity) than other non-so-high-educated people!

Are you a fan of the Plato's Politeia? I am not!

BTW let us decide the voters democratically if italians want a different government!

P.S. also my grandfather Alfonso went in your country (during the fifties) to work in a coal mine! He died here, after returning to italy, for a pulmonar (obviously) disease. I was only a little boy, but I vividly remember the last time I saw him!!

Trotsky wrote: Berlusconi, eh, Andrea?!? ... how RIGHT I was that other time.  ... and I see my friend Hugues couldn't resist! Well you can see my sympathies in that I voted for Persson, also like Zapatero, and have a soft spot for Lula, Chavez and Castro ... however I fear that unlike the Swedish and Spanish leader, Latin America is a very dangerous place for leftist (or would be leftist) governments ... if it wasn't for the whole "war against terrorism" issue, I'm sure that the Bush administration would be doing something about the left trend in Latin America, especially the vocal Chavez. But even so the pressure has forced these guys into horrible mistakes ... not that I'm blaming all mistakes on the outside ... I was very disappointed by the reports of corruption in Lula's Brazil Atkingani, no doubt that Dalai Lama, Mandela, Clinton qualify as world personalities/former leaders, but I feel that their current potential to affect change is slightly less than the names I mentioned ... otherwise I might have added Gorbachev and Bob Hawke and a few others ... but feel free to name anybody you want ...

 I am free here and also in my country, even if sometimes I'm under attack for my opinions!!

It's not a problem, BTW, Italy was always a country with tremendous ideological fights! and it is also now!

No, I like less Achille Occhetto! D'Alema is quite superior in political intelligence than the other!

Occhetto is now too much friend of Antonio Di Pietro! who is not my favourite politician!

Occhetto is too ideological connected with the judiciary revolution against the right-wing (and against the socialist party itself, which he helped to destroy! in 1992-1993!)! I think Bettino Craxi was a great politician and Berlusconi is sometimes similar to him.

Alessandra Mussolini is a strange and good politician: it's true she is near the neo-fascists (who I don't like a all!), but she was alway in the first line to support women and their rights! Its are not opposites, BTW!

P.S. my favourite is Berlusconi, I repeat it he is not a politician, BTW, he is more a self-made-man, someone of whom italy needed from long time! That's why he won two times!

Andrea Cortese wrote:  I am free here and also in my country, even if sometimes I'm under attack for my opinions!! It's not a problem, BTW, Italy was always a country with tremendous ideological fights! and it is also now!>> this is due to the presence of the Vatican and their meddling into politics!!

EEeeHHMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!......................

Apparently not only are you under fire for your opinion in your country but also on the web!

Sorry about that!! You are of course totally entitled to your opinion (however naive they are) and I beg you to forgive me if I made you feel like it was not a valid one!

But you must understand that Berlusconi brings horror and disgust to most people outside Italy (Italians included) a bit like W Bush is also! This was especially true in Genoa with the shooting of a protester. I even saw some Italians ripping the flag! Berlusconi is seen as a collab to the fascist Ligua!

Well Chirac does bring horror and disgust too, but everyone laughs at his lack of credibility , because the french are aware of this!!

As for your grandfather, too many Italians found death in our mines (tragedies and accidents that are still remembered 50 years later) but most found at least a decent life they could not have in Sicily (fleeing mafia and church protected and slightly mafiosis themselves lords), Sardinia, Calabra and Appuglia. But their homesickness isa sometimes painful to see.

Sean Trane wrote: Andrea Cortese wrote:  I am free here and also in my country, even if sometimes I'm under attack for my opinions!! It's not a problem, BTW, Italy was always a country with tremendous ideological fights! and it is also now!>> this is due to the presence of the Vatican and their meddling into politics!! EEeeHHMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!...................... Apparently not only are you under fire for your opinion in your country but also on the web! Sorry about that!! You are of course totally entitled to your opinion (however naive they are) and I beg you to forgive me if I made you feel like it was not a valid one! But you must understand that Berlusconi brings horror and disgust to most people outside Italy (Italians included) a bit like W Bush is also! This was especially true in Genoa with the shooting of a protester. I even saw some Italians ripping the flag! Berlusconi is seen as a collab to the fascist Ligua! Well Chirac does bring horror and disgust too, but everyone laughs at his lack of credibility , because the french are aware of this!! As for your grandfather, too many Italians found death in our mines (tragedies and accidents that are still remembered 50 years later) but most found at least a decent life they could not have in Sicily (fleeing mafia and church protected and slightly mafiosis themselves lords), Sardinia, Calabra and Appuglia. But their homesickness isa sometimes painful to see.

Don't worry!

BTW I have my own ideas that Berlusconi (what an interesting paradox!!) is victim of prejudice!

For example Genua's fights were thought and planned as a first answer to the democratic election of him!

The previous government, who organized that, immidiately went to demonstrate against the summit organized by themselves! This paradox is due only because of their hate for Berlusconi.

He has never shown hate for his opponents!!

I do not hate my polical opponents. In fact it's right to respect them and to be respected by them !

We are doomed

Please i dont wat to see any vote for Bush

Andrea Cortese wrote: The Miracle wrote: I don't know most of them well, but from the ones I do, Vladimir Putin. I'm Russian and he really making changes for the good. Slowly, but he's dragging the country out of chaos. I do agree with you, Miracle. I've always liked Russian History and Culture since I discovered (when I was just a school-boy) that "Czar" derives from the latin "Caesar"! How about to spend holidays in Soci (Black Sea, or not?)? Is it a great and wonderful place?

I haven't been to Soci, but I grew up around that area, but by the Caspian sea.  Great places, with great warm climate.

http://www.sochi-info.com/photo/ - http://www.sochi-info.com/photo/  <A big photo gallery. It's in Russian, just click on a thumbnail to get to the full index of the photosession.

King of Loss wrote: I won't rest 'til we have a good President!

You'll need some strong coffee. ........

Which band do each of these guys lead? 

It'd be so much easier to choose one if I knew which band they were with.

lol... like music bands?? ^

if thats what you mean.. that was pretty funny

Blair

Bush

Chirac  * 100 =lots of  

I'm going way out on a limb here and saying Sharon. Has the old warmonger done a good thing by leaving his party and going on his own to try and broker peace with arabs? Would be nice to think he has... 

NutterAlert wrote: Blair Bush Chirac  * 100 =lots of   I'm going way out on a limb here and saying Sharon. Has the old warmonger done a good thing by leaving his party and going on his own to try and broker peace with arabs? Would be nice to think he has...

I agree with you on Chirac!!

Not on Blair and Bush, yet.

King of Loss wrote: I won't rest 'til we have a good President!

looks like your never going to rest then

Trotsky wrote: The Doctor wrote: Which band do each of these guys lead?  It'd be so much easier to choose one if I knew which band they were with. Do you really not know, Doc? ... well, it can't affect your voting cos how much can you admire someone if you don't which country he's leading?

Oh this isn't a music question?    Oops I'm in the wrong section for music polls. 

So who are these guys then? Didn't Tony Blair once have a singing career with the Beatles as his backing band? 

The Doctor wrote: Trotsky wrote: The Doctor wrote: Which band do each of these guys lead?  It'd be so much easier to choose one if I knew which band they were with. Do you really not know, Doc? ... well, it can't affect your voting cos how much can you admire someone if you don't which country he's leading? Oh this isn't a music question?    Oops I'm in the wrong section for music polls.  So who are these guys then? Didn't Tony Blair once have a singing career with the Beatles as his backing band?

No he played guitar for Roger Tayler

TheProgtologist wrote: We are doomed

We most certainly are!

Andrea Cortese wrote: NutterAlert wrote: Blair Bush Chirac  * 100 =lots of   I'm going way out on a limb here and saying Sharon. Has the old warmonger done a good thing by leaving his party and going on his own to try and broker peace with arabs? Would be nice to think he has...  I agree with you on Chirac!! Not on Blair and Bush, yet.

Typical Britsih view on anti-french feelings.

Yes, Chirac is a crook but the man has flashes of brilliance (he has more of them in his second term than in his firt term as president) although this is all too rare.But the man has balls which is more than Bush or Berlusconi (or Aznar)  did by sucking up to Bush!!

In my mind he (chirac) is a lesser evil because every one knows what he is about and no-one trusts him in his own country. This is where Blair (however diminished he is with his own Irak Gate) and Berlusconi (will find out soon once they find the real motives of his decision are discovered) will pay the price for it (I hope).

Sean Trane wrote: But the man has balls which is more than Bush or Berlusconi (or Aznar)  did by sucking up to Bush!!

Bush? Like Marilyn Manson?

Joking, you meant Blair i think...

Sean Trane wrote: Andrea Cortese wrote: NutterAlert wrote: Blair Bush Chirac  * 100 =lots of   I'm going way out on a limb here and saying Sharon. Has the old warmonger done a good thing by leaving his party and going on his own to try and broker peace with arabs? Would be nice to think he has...  I agree with you on Chirac!! Not on Blair and Bush, yet. Typical Britsih view on anti-french feelings. Yes, Chirac is a crook but the man has flashes of brilliance (he has more of them in his second term than in his firt term as president) although this is all too rare.But the man has balls which is more than Bush or Berlusconi (or Aznar)  did by sucking up to Bush!!   In my mind he (chirac) is a lesser evil because every one knows what he is about and no-one trusts him in his own country. This is where Blair (however diminished he is with his own Irak Gate) and Berlusconi (will find out soon once they find the real motives of his decision are discovered) will pay the price for it (I hope).

Hello Hughes,

In Italy all the most important journalists (the greatest part of them are against Berlusconi) assured the people that Bush would have lose elections. They were not sure, they were SUPER-SURE (is it correct? I doubt it).

The result was the opposite! And what was the reason their intelligent minds could find out to justify the clear error? Americans are ignorant or, at least, fundemantalists!!

Now, I think the problem is not who are americans (that I respect, without sucking up none of them!), the problem is what kind of journalists we have in our countries! They do not distinguish their political passions from reality! Doing so, they deprive american people of the respect they deserve, not as americans, but as people who are voting democratically the president they think is better in that momen for their country!! they also deprive us of journalism!!!

This is one of the best things in the world! The greatest part of it doesn't have this freedom to chose and not to be doomed!

We cannot say our opponent is EVIL only because he's our opponent! we cannot call ignorant or brainwashed the people only because they vote Bush or Berlusconi!

This is something I have to fight for!!

I admit I have exaggerated with Chirac...that's because italian is naturally (and friendly!!) rival of frech!!

I disagree with the french government who seems to be always against USA...this is their grandeur?

See you soon!

Andrea

The Doctor wrote: Trotsky wrote: The Doctor wrote: Which band do each of these guys lead?  It'd be so much easier to choose one if I knew which band they were with. Do you really not know, Doc? ... well, it can't affect your voting cos how much can you admire someone if you don't which country he's leading? Oh this isn't a music question?    Oops I'm in the wrong section for music polls.  So who are these guys then? Didn't Tony Blair once have a singing career with the Beatles as his backing band?

Actually no, Tony Blair went to the same school as Mr.Bean (Rowan Atkinson)...

Dont blame his stupidity

Xymphony wrote: Sean Trane wrote: But the man has balls which is more than Bush or Berlusconi (or Aznar)  did by sucking up to Bush!!   Bush? Like Marilyn Manson? Joking, you meant Blair i think...

Feudian slip there!!!

Yes I did!

ClemofNazareth wrote: Andrea Cortese wrote: [9) Since Bush declared war against terrorism, terrorism increased; USA is part of the problem. Etc.

[/QUOTE]

The USA are not part of the problem and I believe that - with another government - they should be part of the solution (or we're all gonna die).

The matter is: "Are North-Americans, Europeans and Japaneses prepared to lose at least 10% of their present level of income, consumption and waste, in order to fit with the WTO rules, the Kyoto Protocol and several other treaties?"

This 10% is not to be delivered freely to Sub-Saharan Africa and other poor countries since naturally many countries will grow when commerce barriers fall.

Atkingani wrote: ClemofNazareth wrote: Andrea Cortese wrote: [9) Since Bush declared war against terrorism, terrorism increased; USA is part of the problem. Etc. Geez, somebody needs a hug . Seriously though, for whatever it's worth, I don't believe it's the USA you should be pointing to as the problem.  I think it's the flaws of government in general, which is a problem we all share.  In the past two elections in our country a total of 112 million people voted for Bush (50M in 2000 and 62M in 2004).  That equals only 49% of the 227 million people who voted in the two elections, and does not account for the roughly 342 million people in the two elections combined who either did not (or could not) vote.  Throw in the 11 million "illegal" aliens living and working inside our borders, and we're left with a president who was put into office with only 21% of the people living here having voted to put him there.  Representative government, my ass!! But what are the alternatives?  Totalitarianism?  Anarchy?  Communism?  I consider myself to be a rabid student of history, both in my university studies, and in daily life, and I have yet to come across a system of government that works any better.  And since juntas, civil wars, and revolutions are no longer en vogue over here (and dumping tea in harbors doesn't have the same zing it once did), the only viable options the 61 million of us who voted against Bush in 2004 have is to keep trying.  We have made gains in this off-year cycle in local and state elections around the country, and I am confident in 2006 we will see a major shift of power in Congress.  By 2008, we should all be able to celebrate ushering the Bush cartel and his crusading army of self-seving zealots out of power.  I for one can't wait!

The USA are not part of the problem and I believe that - with another government - they should be part of the solution (or we're all gonna die).

The matter is: "Are North-Americans, Europeans and Japaneses prepared to lose at least 10% of their present level of income, consumption and waste, in order to fit with the WTO rules, the Kyoto Protocol and several other treaties?"

This 10% is not to be delivered freely to Sub-Saharan Africa and other poor countries since naturally many countries will grow when commerce barriers fall.

[/QUOTE]

We are loosing that level nowadays! China's growing up!

fm0210 wrote: >We cannot say our opponent is EVIL only because he's our >opponent! we cannot call ignorant or brainwashed the >people only because they vote Bush or Berlusconi! We can. 1) USA won't have petroleum in 10 years, that's the only reason why they invaded Irak. 2) USA didn't sign Kyoto agreement, the result is this weather change which can be irreversible if we don't stop pollution soon. 3) USA fight to condemn: lack of human rights, of justice, make countries be disarmed... and at the same time fight to have some immunity, to not comply it. 4) There are less rights and freedom for USA citiziens, since Bush make people have fear, and the answer against what we 'fear' is violence. Besides, how can America be a democracy having harassment, misinformation, lack of judicial rights and torture inside their own country? 5) Disobedience on International agreements, attacking United Nations' politic architecture, break conventions of Ginebra, cancelling nuclear agreement that was signed with USSR, putting theirself above of international laws. That sounds like the beginning of IV Reich. 6) Multinational companies and neoliberalism carry unsupportive, individual and selfish ideals. 7) Bush is a marionette, he has pressures to rule his country to an economic interest. 8) Bible has been historically used by dictators, psychos, 'saviors' of humanity. The book is usualy manipulated and misunderstood by them. 9) Since Bush declared war against terrorism, terrorism increased; USA is part of the problem. Etc.

Weather change is iraversable and a constant. Ever since this planet has ha a climate it has been in a peremenant state of change wich has resulted in largly tropical climats changing to ice ages throughout history. The big difference is that this time our pollution is helping to speed it up but dont take the fools stance that we can prevent weather change, its going to happen, we will have another Ice age regardless of what we do, the only question is when.

Andrea Cortese wrote: Atkingani wrote: ClemofNazareth wrote: Andrea Cortese wrote: [9) Since Bush declared war against terrorism, terrorism increased; USA is part of the problem. Etc. Geez, somebody needs a hug . The USA are not part of the problem and I believe that - with another government - they should be part of the solution (or we're all gonna die). The matter is: "Are North-Americans, Europeans and Japaneses prepared to lose at least 10% of their present level of income, consumption and waste, in order to fit with the WTO rules, the Kyoto Protocol and several other treaties?" This 10% is not to be delivered freely to Sub-Saharan Africa and other poor countries since naturally many countries will grow when commerce barriers fall.

We are loosing that level nowadays! China's growing up!

[/QUOTE]

China is a GREAT problem... they are offending the environment absurdly.

Compared with theirs the aggressions here are peanuts but we do not have a market of 1.3 billion possible buyers. So everything there is forgiven and here is blamed