The Savage rose is missing on the list

What is the list you are referring to?

Savage Rose was checked by Crossover and then submitted to the Admin Team for Prog Related. It wasn't really flat out rejected for all time as I read it, but it was felt to be a weak case (not a strong enough case had been made) and not to fit the Prog Related criteria well enough. Basically it was rejected unless a really compelling case is ever made for it. It was deemed not Prog enough for a Prog category and not a strong case for Prog Related.

Edited by Logan - July 07 2021 at 18:26

^ I have no idea (scratch that, probably the period and music that was deemed most relevant -- early period would have been considered for sure). I wasn't part of the PR team so I don't have the PMs presenting the case for Prog Related, nor do I know the band well. Crossover likely based it in on what was presented in the 2012 suggestion thread, and maybe more music, and then thought it better for Prog Related. Psych checked it before that and was unsure/ not convinced.

PR works differently than other categories. The arguments are considered important, and that a case is presented that ticks as many of the Prog Related criteria boxes as possible. If compelling arguments (well-researched, logical and thorough) were not presented, than that likely would have had an effect.

By the way, the Crossover team would sometimes remove entries from their list once they decided it was not for them (I just read about this when doing a topic search for Savage Rose in their thread, if I read it properly). They were the ones who checked it then passed it on to PR for evaluation as they thought that would be more suitable. So just because they don't have a ProgFreak entry doesn't mean they didn't check something. Other teams who regularly use it have been inconsistent in its use (use it at some times and not others, often depends on the period. With Eclectic we used it then later made our own charts, since it was just to help keep us organised really, rather than to help others follow an evaluation. Not sure what they do now).



Edited by Logan - July 07 2021 at 19:11

They should be on prog archives.

How dare a band that was featured on the Supernatural Fairy Tales box set not be included on this site. Next thing you know they'll have to add ELO and Golden Earring. 

The Savage Rose
Savage Rose at Smukfest 2011
Background information
Origin	Denmark
Genres	Psychedelic rock, progressive rock, folk rock, psychedelic folk, blues rock
Years active	1967-present

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - July 07 2021 at 20:34

If bands Santana, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, etc are in, then Savage Rose should be included IMHO.

I said that I'd see how this thread goes. How it develops, how well it answers those questions I raised before. Arguments and counter-arguments. I thought maybe a really solid case would be made or built here to demonstrate the Prog connection with band members, the general scene, similar music included in Prog categories.... For me to present the case to Admin, I'd need more than "these albums are proggy" (the arguments matter). There's lot's of proggy albums not in PA. Anders offered to contribute to the bio as needed, and then earlyprog, and I wouldn't have considered bringing it forward if people had not offered to write the bio (which also tries to explain its Prog relations) and add the albums. Proto-Prog is an interesting idea, earlyprog.

"If bands Santana, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, etc are in, then Savage Rose should be included IMHO."

To be honest, this killed it for me (at least for me to bring it forward). I am now not comfortable bringing this case to Admin. I won't now, but an SC might who knows the band and arguments really well and can make a clear and logical case for it that shows its relations to Prog and the Prog scene well.

A: None of those are in Prog categories other than Santana, and Santana is controversial for its placement (people not knowing the discography well enough, I might think), so to say this case is related to those is akin to calling it "Prog-Related Related" and "Proto-Prog Related".

B: It has not been demonstrated what those bands have in common with Savage Rose, musically, in terms of influence etc. Like I said, it should be compared to the most relevant of bands, preferably those thought of as Prog proper, and specifics help. The music itself is not so much the issue for me as the arguments. "Should" arguments commonly carry the burden of proof. If those are the most relevant acts, it makes for a harder case when the best examples are not considered very Prog or Prog proper (even if I could draw all sorts of similarities to each band, all are bluesy and can be quite ballsy, and Savage Rose can be very blues). Black Sabbath was quite a controversial addition that some people still question, and this could itself be considered a significantly controversial case (not accepted for Psych or Crossover, and had already been passed to Prog Related where it was not accepted).

Unique as pointed out earlier (at least for the local scene) is good in a way, but of course it can make the case harder to prove.

I think at this point it would be best to go the expected route (with the link I provided earlier). So discussion develops more, and then an SC PMs us with the best arguments for it (and hopefully highlights the best counterarguments) if that SC supports it strongly, and then if we approved, adds the band. This would be the second time coming to PR, and the arguments and links to Prog (not just this sounds Prog) shown in people's research should be pretty solid and detail oriented.

So I won't be a torchbearer. My flame died. Better that one much more knowledgeable than I, both in the music and knowing details about the band and band member's history, presents the case to Admin (an SC by PM if one is passionate about it) to argue for it. I hear a Prog relation in certain music (albums), but I wouldn't be comfortable with that being my sole case. I lack the deep knowledge about the band and band members to make a solid case for it myself that I would be comfortable with for PR. And I don't know enough for Proto Prog.

Edited by Logan - July 09 2021 at 17:29

I like Savage Rose, but never heard about Savage Grace (and hope they have more songs that are good other than the cover just listed)