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softandwet
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 06 2019
Location: France
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Points: 211
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Topic: Why is my Neo-Prog topic so heckin' cringeee? Posted: September 26 2020 at 08:21 |
I'm losing it. I'm listening to Pendragon's Love Over Fear, what seems to be considered one of the best albums of the year so far, but oh my god (even though i love the cover) the songs are so cringe, it's even more cringey than Marilion. With everything that Neo-Prog rips the hell off such as Genesis and Gabriel's vibe or Jon Andersonish lyrics... I hate this genre! So smoothish and mellowish! And it's 4.27 on PA when Phideaux's Snowtorch is 4.20!!! Phideaux HELLA Snowtorch!!! 4.20!!!
{I took the liberty of editing the title to change it from "Why is Neo-Prog so heckin' cringeee" to "Why is my Neo-Prog topic so heckin' cringeee?" - Logan}
Edited by Logan - September 26 2020 at 11:27
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So don’t evade the surgeon’s blade Cos the answer could be in your mind Maybe one cut and we’ll find We’re just a wavelength behind
But we are entwined
And I know what you need
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 08:39 |
Well if you don't like it, don't listen to it, stop moaning about it and let those of us who think it's absolutely wonderful enjoy it in peace.
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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FatherChristmas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2020
Location: LandofGrey&Pink
Status: Offline
Points: 2457
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 08:41 |
Hercules wrote:
Well if you don't like it, don't listen to it, stop moaning about it and let those of us who think it's absolutely wonderful enjoy it in peace. |
^ Don't worry, soft and wet, loads of people agree with you.
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"Music is the wine that fills the cup of silence" - Robert Fripp "I am an anti-Christ" - Johnny Rotten
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team
Joined: March 16 2007
Location: Boston
Status: Offline
Points: 20848
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 08:46 |
Hercules wrote:
Well if you don't like it, don't listen to it, stop moaning about it and let those of us who think it's absolutely wonderful enjoy it in peace. |
Have to agree, it's best to stay out of these types of threads if this music isn't for you. There's plenty of broad topic threads where tastes can be expressed, this is just baiting.
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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A Crimson Mellotron
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 10 2020
Location: Bulgaria
Status: Offline
Points: 4133
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 09:16 |
softandwet wrote:
I'm losing it. I'm listening to Pendragon's Love Over Fear, what seems to be considered one of the best albums of the year so far, but oh my god (even though i love the cover) the songs are so cringe, it's even more cringey than Marilion. With everything that Neo-Prog rips the hell off such as Genesis and Gabriel's vibe or Jon Andersonish lyrics... I hate this genre! So smoothish and mellowish! And it's 4.27 on PA when Phideaux's Snowtorch is 4.20!!! Phideaux HELLA Snowtorch!!! 4.20!!! | As everyone else said, you don't have to listen to it if you don't like it. But I am curious, what exactly do you find cringy? Which aspect of the music?
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dougmcauliffe
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 23 2019
Location: US
Status: Offline
Points: 3895
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 09:22 |
Yes, that pendragon album is overrated but The Road of Bones melts my damn face off every time. I think Fish era marillion is great as well, H era isn't for me though.
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The sun has left the sky... ...Now you can close your eyes
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BrufordFreak
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 25 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 8192
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 10:43 |
dougmcauliffe wrote:
Yes, that pendragon album is overrated but The Road of Bones melts my damn face off every time. I think Fish era marillion is great as well, H era isn't for me though. |
COMPLETE opposite for me--on every single count!
Love over Fear >>> The Road of Bones Hogarth-era Marillion > Fish-era (though I don't really love either)
OP: Though I am not a real devout Neo Prog lover, I have come to find comfort in the Trick of the Tail/Wind and Wuthering melodic sensibilities and lush sound palettes pursued and perfected by several modern bands. (E.g. Mystery, Tony Patterson, Edison's Children, Wobbler, The Psychedelic Ensemble, Believe, Airbag/Bjørn Riis, Jerzy Antczak, Lifesigns, Love over Fear).
Also, I don't hear/listen to words or messages: for me, the vocals are just another instrument in the weave.
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Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
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Progosopher
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 12 2009
Location: Coolwood
Status: Offline
Points: 6467
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 10:44 |
Every Neo-Prog band I have heard reminds of Genesis one way or another, even the ones I truly enjoy such as Fish-era Marillion and IQ. In general, though, I find the genre derivative albeit enjoyable for the most part. Never cared much for Pendragon myself, which is why I don't listen to them. They are a good band, though, and clearly have their fan base. I can only express my own opinion. Haven't heard Snowtorch but I have liked what little of Phideaux I have heard.
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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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POTA
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 17 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 173
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 10:45 |
I think Pendragon in general is pretty cheesy. But at their best, they play some gorgeous music. And I think other than the incredibly bad “360 Degrees”, Love Over Fear is the best album of the year so far (which I expect to change once Dwellers of the Deep is released).
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wiz_d_kidd
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 13 2018
Location: EllicottCityMD
Status: Offline
Points: 1423
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 10:50 |
One of the aspects of forums such as PA is that people like to share and express their common interests and tastes. There are many threads such as "Neo-Prog Appreciation!" where like-minded people get together to share what they like about neo prog.
In all fairness, then, people should be allowed to have "Neo-prog Sucks!" threads to share their dislike for the genre, and if you're one who happens to like neo prog, stay away from the thread! People with opposite viewpoints from yours should be allowed to express their opinions.
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BrufordFreak
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 25 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 8192
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 10:52 |
BrufordFreak wrote:
dougmcauliffe wrote:
Yes, that pendragon album is overrated but The Road of Bones melts my damn face off every time. I think Fish era marillion is great as well, H era isn't for me though. |
COMPLETE opposite for me--on every single count!
Love over Fear >>> The Road of Bones Hogarth-era Marillion > Fish-era (though I don't really love either)
OP: Though I am not a real devout Neo Prog lover, I have come to find comfort in the Trick of the Tail/Wind and Wuthering melodic sensibilities and lush sound palettes pursued and perfected by several modern bands. (E.g. Mystery, Tony Patterson, Edison's Children, Wobbler, The Psychedelic Ensemble, Believe, Airbag/Bjørn Riis, Jerzy Antczak, Lifesigns, Love over Fear).
Also, I don't hear/listen to words or messages: for me, the vocals are just another instrument in the weave. |
P.S. Phideaux underwhelms me every time I try to listen to him (and I own everything he's released since Ghost Story except for 7 1/2).
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Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
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BrufordFreak
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 25 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 8192
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 10:55 |
wiz_d_kidd wrote:
One of the aspects of forums such as PA is that people like to share and express their common interests and tastes. There are many threads such as "Neo-Prog Appreciation!" where like-minded people get together to share what they like about neo prog.
In all fairness, then, people should be allowed to have "Neo-prog Sucks!" threads to share their dislike for the genre, and if you're one who happens to like neo prog, stay away from the thread! People with opposite viewpoints from yours should be allowed to express their opinions.
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Here! Here! And, for the record, IQ sucks! (Just kidding. They're okay.)
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Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
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I prophesy disaster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 31 2017
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 4780
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 11:00 |
Phideaux is listed in PA under Crossover Prog, not Neo-Prog.
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No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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I prophesy disaster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 31 2017
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 4780
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 11:04 |
^ Which raises the question: Do people conflate Crossover Prog and Neo-Prog?
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No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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Greenmist
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 10 2020
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 294
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 11:16 |
Well i actually like neo prog rock more than i do classic prog rock. Im a huge fan of Arena. Id highly reccomend their album The Visitor to anybody thats a fan of prog rock.
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Cristi
Special Collaborator
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams
Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Offline
Points: 43679
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 11:19 |
it's not cringy at all. I wonder if you (the OP) know the difference between fact and opinion. No offense...
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2016
Location: Philly burbs
Status: Online
Points: 18275
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 11:20 |
Here's how I see it. Neo prog combines elements of classic prog with hard rock and metal and sometimes synth pop and alternative. In the early days there were elements of new wave but probably not so much these days. So imo it's sort of a hybrid genre. Crossover prog is similar but probably more poppy with less hard rock and metal influences. Some people are prog purists and don't like non proggy elements in their prog. That's understandable to a degree.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 35884
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 11:23 |
I find this topic really cringe, and if there weren't various thoughtful responses I would lock it. I might edit the title and move this to the Genre Appreciation forum. If another admin chooses to lock it, then I wouldn't complain.
SoftandWet, I do think you come up with too many topics, especially in The Prog Lounge, and wish you would post in more of other people's topics and search for relevant topics instead of coming up with lots of your own. That is a really trolling like title. We have a recent Neo-Prog appreciation topic, and had you brought up your issues in that topic in a respectful manner, while mentioning the qualities that you like in music, then I expect that people would have found albums that would appeal to you in the category, since it can be quite diverse (as are many categories here).
Quite a few conflate certain Neo-Prog and Crossover ones and post 70s Symphonic Prog with Neo-Prog, but then those categories do cross over. Lots of albums in the Neo-Prog category could get various labels.
I like Discipline, which used to be in Neo-Prog, and would call the first album at least Neo-Prog, and I call it other things. To some Neo-Prog has meant a diverse amount of albums, including ones such as Spock's Beard, Dream Theater The Flower Kings, and even The Mars Volta. Some think it just means new prog as in post classic era bands. To some it means any melodic symphonic rock, and melodic arena rock. To some it means Proggy AOR... (depending on what one means by AOR, AOR as in melodic rock in this case), or poppy Prog.
I would call a lot of Neo-Prog Crossover Prog, in that it incorporates mainstream elements with Prog commonly, and Prog generally I could call crossover in a sense, in that it crosses genres.
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Shadowyzard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 24 2020
Location: Davutlar
Status: Offline
Points: 4506
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 11:30 |
wiz_d_kidd wrote:
One of the aspects of forums such as PA is that people like to share and express their common interests and tastes. There are many threads such as "Neo-Prog Appreciation!" where like-minded people get together to share what they like about neo prog.
In all fairness, then, people should be allowed to have "Neo-prog Sucks!" threads to share their dislike for the genre, and if you're one who happens to like neo prog, stay away from the thread! People with opposite viewpoints from yours should be allowed to express their opinions.
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Not trying to devalue your view (which is a powerful and plausible one); but I think forums are good as they are. Someone creates an unorthodox thread, others give reactions, someone undermines the orthodoxy with an unsettling comment (like you did); and someone pretends to be a wise smartass like me. Seriously though, I love PA as it is. For the topic, I do enjoy some neo-prog, though I might have been a "hater" If I had grown with 70s' classic prog. Who knows...
Edited by Shadowyzard - September 26 2020 at 11:40
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Frenetic Zetetic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 09 2017
Location: Now
Status: Offline
Points: 9233
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Posted: September 27 2020 at 00:30 |
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
Hercules wrote:
Well if you don't like it, don't listen to it, stop moaning about it and let those of us who think it's absolutely wonderful enjoy it in peace. |
Have to agree, it's best to stay out of these types of threads if this music isn't for you. There's plenty of broad topic threads where tastes can be expressed, this is just baiting. |
This is a poor argument and I couldn't disagree more. By this logic 3/4 of this board should get out of the politics thread, all they do is go in circles complaining about Trump instead of making positive contributions. This board is as stale as week-old thread, we need this type of discussion to switch it up. It'll lead to more original topics that others will enjoy.
This is a message board meant for discussion, and this is a very applicable prog topic that I'm interested in learning more about.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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