Why is my Neo-Prog topic so heckin' cringeee?
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=124115
Printed Date: November 28 2024 at 22:36
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Topic: Why is my Neo-Prog topic so heckin' cringeee?
Posted By: softandwet
Subject: Why is my Neo-Prog topic so heckin' cringeee?
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 08:21
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I'm losing it. I'm listening to Pendragon's Love Over Fear, what seems to be considered one of the best albums of the year so far, but oh my god (even though i love the cover) the songs are so cringe, it's even more cringey than Marilion. With everything that Neo-Prog rips the hell off such as Genesis and Gabriel's vibe or Jon Andersonish lyrics... I hate this genre! So smoothish and mellowish! And it's 4.27 on PA when Phideaux's Snowtorch is 4.20!!! Phideaux HELLA Snowtorch!!! 4.20!!! {I took the liberty of editing the title to change it from "Why is Neo-Prog so heckin' cringeee" to "Why is my Neo-Prog topic so heckin' cringeee?" - Logan} ------------- So don’t evade the surgeon’s blade Cos the answer could be in your mind Maybe one cut and we’ll find We’re just a wavelength behind But we are entwined And I know what you need |
Replies:
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 08:39
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Well if you don't like it, don't listen to it, stop moaning about it and let those of us who think it's absolutely wonderful enjoy it in peace. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: FatherChristmas
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 08:41
^  Don't worry, soft and wet, loads of people agree with you. ------------- "Music is the wine that fills the cup of silence" - Robert Fripp "I am an anti-Christ" - Johnny Rotten |
Hercules wrote:Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 08:46
Have to agree, it's best to stay out of these types of threads if this music isn't for you. There's plenty of broad topic threads where tastes can be expressed, this is just baiting. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: A Crimson Mellotron
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 09:16
As everyone else said, you don't have to listen to it if you don't like it. But I am curious, what exactly do you find cringy? Which aspect of the music?
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Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 09:22
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Yes, that pendragon album is overrated but The Road of Bones melts my damn face off every time. I think Fish era marillion is great as well, H era isn't for me though. ------------- The sun has left the sky... ...Now you can close your eyes |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 10:43
COMPLETE opposite for me--on every single count! Love over Fear >>> The Road of Bones Hogarth-era Marillion > Fish-era (though I don't really love either) OP: Though I am not a real devout Neo Prog lover, I have come to find comfort in the Trick of the Tail/Wind and Wuthering melodic sensibilities and lush sound palettes pursued and perfected by several modern bands. (E.g. Mystery, Tony Patterson, Edison's Children, Wobbler, The Psychedelic Ensemble, Believe, Airbag/Bjørn Riis, Jerzy Antczak, Lifesigns, Love over Fear). Also, I don't hear/listen to words or messages: for me, the vocals are just another instrument in the weave. ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 10:44
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Every Neo-Prog band I have heard reminds of Genesis one way or another, even the ones I truly enjoy such as Fish-era Marillion and IQ. In general, though, I find the genre derivative albeit enjoyable for the most part. Never cared much for Pendragon myself, which is why I don't listen to them. They are a good band, though, and clearly have their fan base. I can only express my own opinion. Haven't heard Snowtorch but I have liked what little of Phideaux I have heard. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: POTA
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 10:45
| I think Pendragon in general is pretty cheesy. But at their best, they play some gorgeous music. And I think other than the incredibly bad “360 Degrees”, Love Over Fear is the best album of the year so far (which I expect to change once Dwellers of the Deep is released). |
Posted By: wiz_d_kidd
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 10:50
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One of the aspects of forums such as PA is that people like to share and express their common interests and tastes. There are many threads such as "Neo-Prog Appreciation!" where like-minded people get together to share what they like about neo prog. In all fairness, then, people should be allowed to have "Neo-prog Sucks!" threads to share their dislike for the genre, and if you're one who happens to like neo prog, stay away from the thread! People with opposite viewpoints from yours should be allowed to express their opinions.
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Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 10:52
P.S. Phideaux underwhelms me every time I try to listen to him (and I own everything he's released since Ghost Story except for 7 1/2). ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 10:55
Here! Here! And, for the record, IQ sucks! (Just kidding. They're okay.) ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 11:00
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Phideaux is listed in PA under Crossover Prog, not Neo-Prog. ------------- No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man. |
Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 11:04
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^ Which raises the question: Do people conflate Crossover Prog and Neo-Prog? ------------- No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man. |
Posted By: Greenmist
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 11:16
| Well i actually like neo prog rock more than i do classic prog rock. Im a huge fan of Arena. Id highly reccomend their album The Visitor to anybody thats a fan of prog rock. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 11:19
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it's not cringy at all. I wonder if you (the OP) know the difference between fact and opinion. No offense...
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 11:20
| Here's how I see it. Neo prog combines elements of classic prog with hard rock and metal and sometimes synth pop and alternative. In the early days there were elements of new wave but probably not so much these days. So imo it's sort of a hybrid genre. Crossover prog is similar but probably more poppy with less hard rock and metal influences. Some people are prog purists and don't like non proggy elements in their prog. That's understandable to a degree. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 11:23
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I find this topic really cringe, and if there weren't various thoughtful responses I would lock it. I might edit the title and move this to the Genre Appreciation forum. If another admin chooses to lock it, then I wouldn't complain. SoftandWet, I do think you come up with too many topics, especially in The Prog Lounge, and wish you would post in more of other people's topics and search for relevant topics instead of coming up with lots of your own. That is a really trolling like title. We have a recent Neo-Prog appreciation topic, and had you brought up your issues in that topic in a respectful manner, while mentioning the qualities that you like in music, then I expect that people would have found albums that would appeal to you in the category, since it can be quite diverse (as are many categories here). Quite a few conflate certain Neo-Prog and Crossover ones and post 70s Symphonic Prog with Neo-Prog, but then those categories do cross over. Lots of albums in the Neo-Prog category could get various labels. I like Discipline, which used to be in Neo-Prog, and would call the first album at least Neo-Prog, and I call it other things. To some Neo-Prog has meant a diverse amount of albums, including ones such as Spock's Beard, Dream Theater The Flower Kings, and even The Mars Volta. Some think it just means new prog as in post classic era bands. To some it means any melodic symphonic rock, and melodic arena rock. To some it means Proggy AOR... (depending on what one means by AOR, AOR as in melodic rock in this case), or poppy Prog. I would call a lot of Neo-Prog Crossover Prog, in that it incorporates mainstream elements with Prog commonly, and Prog generally I could call crossover in a sense, in that it crosses genres. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 11:30
Not trying to devalue your view (which is a powerful and plausible one); but I think forums are good as they are. Someone creates an unorthodox thread, others give reactions, someone undermines the orthodoxy with an unsettling comment (like you did); and someone pretends to be a wise smartass like me.   Seriously though, I love PA as it is. For the topic, I do enjoy some neo-prog, though I might have been a "hater" If I had grown with 70s' classic prog. Who knows... |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: September 27 2020 at 00:30
This is a poor argument and I couldn't disagree more. By this logic 3/4 of this board should get out of the politics thread, all they do is go in circles complaining about Trump instead of making positive contributions. This board is as stale as week-old thread, we need this type of discussion to switch it up. It'll lead to more original topics that others will enjoy. This is a message board meant for discussion, and this is a very applicable prog topic that I'm interested in learning more about. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: September 27 2020 at 00:33
I've yet to see evidence this dude is trolling, simply for having an opinion outside the consensus here. Links?
There appears to be a hierarchy of touchy mods and senior members that react to particular topics, then act like the person that doesn't share their exact opinion is therefore trolling and baiting. This board has had sh*t for new activity in months, it's all polls and lists. I made a thread asking people to define a single word and it blew up over 6 pages in a day; that's how bored people are here. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: September 27 2020 at 01:58
| I don't think neo-prog is meant to be ground breaking particularly. It always piggy backed on Genesis (and Yes to a lessor extent). Genesis represented a different branch of prog even in their hey-day of the Gabriel era adopting a more 'arty' approach. A lot of people relate to this and like it. In a way Neo is just a long term tribute to Genesis. The bands know what they're about and don't make any great claims in my experience. You are allowed to not like it. |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 27 2020 at 02:02
That's fine, people can do that if they want but what's the point? There are genres of prog I don't listen to (most of prog-metal for instance) but I don't Sl*g them off. It's not bad music, it's just music I don't particularly care to listen to. I would prefer to see positive threads.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 27 2020 at 02:09
Since I was referring to the title of this topic as being troll-like, I don't see why you would need links: "Why is Neo-Prog so heckin' cringeee". I'd say that the original post is troll-like as well if not actual trolling. I said it is a trolling-like title, this depends on how one defines trolling, not that it is trolling. Perhaps I should have said that this may be construed as trolling. And I don't think the opinion is really that unusual, it's how it was expressed as "Why is Neo-Prog so heckin' cringeee". Of course a title like that is going to seem inflammatory and provoke negative reactions. To me tolling often tends to mean playing the fool to try to expose other's people's foolishness, and is often really quite clever, but this could easily be construed as an inflammatory title. It doesn't seem at all constructive. It's fine to have an opinion, but then be careful to phrase it in a way as if you're not making an objective claim, and maybe go for some nuance. Couple that "Why is so Neo_prog so feckin' cringey" with:
And ask yourself what is the purpose? Getting it off one's chest? Looking for allies? To have a delightfully engaging conversation with others? Surely it's known that it might not be taken well at all by some. I like to say "Speak your mind but mind your speech" even though I do have a belief in the general principle of a right to offend and take offence (at the site that works within certain rules), which doesn't mean that I don't respect manners. I have spoken with the poster (spoken at more like cause it never got a response), or tried to, about certain issues before, such as posting lots of topics in the Prog lounge, often misplaced, and perhaps I would have been more diplomatic had I had not had issue with the posting before. Funny thing with being a moderator is that you are often derided when you take action and derided when you take none, or seemingly not enough. It's all part of the ride, I guess. By the way, I noticed you other comment in the Rush thread, where was of course going for a bad joke, as I often do. Golden Age to Age of Steel, i.e. Caress of Steel and thought might as well deal with both in one shot.
Mod singular in this case. And when I posted that Rush joke there were three such threads. Had many threads been raised, and four or even three at once is more than I would like, I would have raised with that person, but I don't usually Rush into such things. Had hoped it might just wither away and die on its own and I would close it now if it weren't for the continuing conversation (not us but others that posted after you). If you have concerns, please notify a mod by PM (just be sure to avoid the touchy ones if PMing). ;) Thanks, Greg EDIT: Will close it after all. Oh, one more thing. Do you remember this thread: https://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=122644" rel="nofollow - I don't like Neo Prog, change my mind (CLICK) with the first post presenting the challenge (this is the whole post).
See how well that went with response to recommendations. If it had been a sincere desire to discover Neo-Prog that might appeal, that was an odd approach. It didn't list any of the bands/albums that had been tried, nor was the qualities of music that were liked and disliked mentioned. Instead it was phrased in a rather aggressive (or so it seems to me) challenging manner while offering nothing for people to base their recommendations or arguments on other than I don't like Neo-Prog, so try to change my mind. Weird. If that was what was being implied. I rather think "Bring it!" was the message -- fighting words rather than a sincere desire to be able to appreciate the category. It sounds confrontational, and do topics like these and expect confrontation. Now we have this thread which says:
Not much progression, and it seems to be a not very useful follow-up thread. Might have been better to bump the old thread and say something like, "Thanks for trying to recommend music to me before, but after listening to these, I have found I think that this category is really not for me." Or not bothered at all. Sorry, but these approaches seem very juvenile to me. In softandwet's "I don't like Neo-Prog" thread, which I thought very poorly approached, I wrote in response, which I think reasonably diplomatic:
------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |