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Blacksword View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Cultural appropriation - your thoughts
    Posted: April 09 2016 at 05:17
Trigger alert!

Is CA a valid concept, or just a complete bag of sh*t?

CA - Wiki

Is it racist for a white person (or a black person for that matter) to cook a curry or to prepare Mexican food, for example? Have we all misunderstood diversity and multiculturalism, and in fact should really be pushing everyone into their ethnic silo's, never acknoweldging each others cultures?

Who is behind this agenda and why?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 05:51
I'll take complete bag of sh*t for $1000 Alex


and who is behind the notion... oh .. probably some egghead sitting in a darkened university closet trying to justify the research grant he received...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 06:26
I'm with Micky on this.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 06:49
^My thoughts exactly when I read the subject and before I opened the post. It's concepts like this that create not dismantle racism. It's called DIVERSITY, and at the very least helps stir the mixing pot.
Of course when these cultural elements are use for negative purposes, then we have a problem.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 06:58
that is why it is complete bullsh*t .... it is like creating the notion that the sky is blue... that has been going on for millenia... find me a culturally homogeneous society today... you'd have to go back to before the wheel was invented to find where one culture has not borrowed concepts. Food, fashion, music...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 07:29
Agree with everything said so far. A ridiculous concept. I can't understand why anyone would seek to pursue it.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 07:47
I think diversity and multiculturalism are different things, I support the first but oppose the second in the form that it has been imposed on modern societies economies. The main reason is that the latter lacks respect and understanding from all parts.

I think cultural appropriation to a small degree is required for societies to function in harmony, but not to the extent described here.


Edited by aapatsos - April 09 2016 at 07:50
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 07:49
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Agree with everything said so far. A ridiculous concept. I can't understand why anyone would seek to pursue it.



other than for benign purposes... like trying to justify a research grant..

the usual suspects... bigotry, hate, racism and using that notion as a vehicle for trying to rationalize it. Like cultural homogeny is something that really has existed since Japan opened it's borders


Edited by micky - April 09 2016 at 07:50
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 22:56
So embracing other cultures and taking enjoyment in what they have to offer is now a bad thing to some?

Oi
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2016 at 01:26
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

So embracing other cultures and taking enjoyment in what they have to offer is now a bad thing to some?

Oi


Liberalism like conservatism has a lunatic fringe and this is the loony liberal wing at work. They have much in common with their right wing counterparts in that they both seek to divide and control people and their overall desire is for an authoritarian system of government imposing their beliefs on others through draconian legislation, centering around the control of language and thought.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2016 at 01:58
A non-black person dressing up in blackface as a sterotypical black dude is racist. Wearing cornrows or dreadlocks is not.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2016 at 02:44
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

I'll take complete bag of sh*t for $1000 Alex


and who is behind the notion... oh .. probably some egghead sitting in a darkened university closet trying to justify the research grant he received...

Completely agree. Clap


Edited by Pastmaster - April 10 2016 at 02:59
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2016 at 04:01
I think the interaction between cultures has lead to numerous cultural elements being enjoyed by many millions more than they would have been otherwise: the Hindu numeral system, blues-derived rock, pizza, Swedish meatballs, soccer, bagpipes, chess, Go, etc.

With that being said, I think there are legitimate cases where a group can protest how another cultural group trivializes some of its cultural elements, particularly when it's done in a derogatory, overtly commercial or patronizing manner.

I can see how some Native Americans take offense at sports franchises that use Native American imagery in what they construe as a stereotypical manner (ex. Washington Redskins, Cleveland Indians, Atlanta Braves). Also, there have been a few cases where college fraternity members dressed up as stereotypical Mexicans using sombreros, ponchos, mustaches, etc.

As with many other subjective situations that can lead to conflict, a little bit of common sense goes a long way.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2016 at 05:41
Hmmm. Where do you draw the line?

Jazz, ragtime, gospel and blues, together with R&B and Soul, and thus hip-hop and rap, are the result of cultural appropriation. None of them bear much resemblance to the African music that they are derived from as they are the appropriation of Western music culture (European folk traditions, hymns & church music, Latin rhythms) into African song and dance traditions. [I would posit that this was possible because the fundamentals of harmony and meter within music are based upon inherent physiological human traits rather than learnt or passed-on cultural traditions, but that's a digression]. Here we don't use the seemingly derogatory word "appropriation" but the more acceptable "adaptation" or "fusion" because of the circumstances that lead to this appropriation of Western music by African-Americans. 

This is White man's guilt: the embarrassment and shame that they bear for the slavery, colonisation, displacement and ghettoisation of other races by their forebears, even though those white-oppressors were the social elite who similarly exploited the less privileged of their own race and culture through the class-system, enforced transportation, work-houses and indentured servitude. My (white) ancestors were neither slaves nor slavers, (nor where they colonists or imperialists), but they were no more free as a consequence of that: general suffrage (as an indication of emancipation) in the UK is less than 100 years old, prior to 1918 no one in my family-tree was eligible to vote. Their political, social and religious freedoms were limited and their cultural identity marginalised and suppressed through many centuries of imposed social and religious conformance, though this wasn't as visible as the more politically motivated suppression of Irish, Welsh and Scottish identity. Much of what is now regarded as English cultural heritage and tradition is a romantic Edwardian/Victorian re-imagining.

Therefore I cannot be 'embarrassed' by cultural appropriation because of the sins of someone else's father but equally I cannot appropriate for myself the offence felt by others of a different culture. If a Native American is offended by cultural appropriation of a traditional head-dress then so be it, if a middle-class white student is offended by it then I have to ask what offends them so?

[Is three non-English actors' (Depp, Dias and McGregor) parody the stereotypical English accent in a crap film (Mortdecai) or Rickman and Irons using stereotyped German accents in the Die Hard franchise as offensive as Jolson donning blackface in the Jazz Singer? Is Olivier applying black grease-paint to play Othello not offensive because it's a characterisation not a caricature? Do we then say that no black actors can play Hamlet because they are not white, or do we restrict that role just to Danish actors?]
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2016 at 09:25
I can conceive of situations in which cultural appropriation would be a bad thing, but this has little to do with real life examples of where this term is applied en masse. Cultural appropriate as its usually used is a good thing which allows rather different people to find some common ground and gain appreciation for their differing cultural backgrounds.

That being said I think many of the people who cry cultural appropriation are just ill informed as the crotchety old guys who complain about people crying cultural appropriation. I think PZ Myers wrong a pretty good piece summing up what I mean though I don't quite like his tone nor do I agree with every point.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2016 at 10:09
I'm thinking the level of hyper-political-correctness has reached such a fever pitch that I may be accosted on the street for wearing dungarees, because, as everyone knows, the word dungaree is expropriated from the Indian duṅgrī (ie., cotton cloth), and I am contributing to the ongoing social evils resulting from several hundred years of imperial white colonization and repression of Third World countries. 

I will then be scolded in no uncertain terms that using nomenclature such as "Third World' only perpetuates the impression that said impoverished and backward nations are lesser entities in the eyes of the white privileged empire-makers who looted these lands to enrich themselves on the backs of slave labor.

And then I will reply, "I am wearing f*cking blue jeans, *sshole!"


Edited by The Dark Elf - April 15 2016 at 22:07
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2016 at 13:40
To all the academicians who buy into this:




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2016 at 05:05
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

I can conceive of situations in which cultural appropriation would be a bad thing, but this has little to do with real life examples of where this term is applied en masse. Cultural appropriate as its usually used is a good thing which allows rather different people to find some common ground and gain appreciation for their differing cultural backgrounds.

That being said I think many of the people who cry cultural appropriation are just ill informed as the crotchety old guys who complain about people crying cultural appropriation. I think PZ Myers wrong a pretty good piece summing up what I mean though I don't quite like his tone nor do I agree with every point.
In quoting Kou, the article expressed the point I tried to make but far more eloquently than I: "Cultural appropriation is when members of a dominant culture adopt parts of another culture from people that they’ve also systematically oppressed." The bulk of Carrier's article, and those of Kou and Coyne, struck me as over-reacting to make their respective points, but that is the norm in the blogosphere where 'mutual respect' is a path seldom trod. 

Appropriation in itself is not necessarily a bad thing, (that would be misappropriation), but if we accept Kou's definition of Cultural Appropriation without taking into account her further corollaries and provisos then it can only be regarded as a bad thing despite any positive outcomes that result from it. This leads to the reflex reaction that people have (on both sides) when this topic is discussed at face-value without considering the context in which it is used. 

[I think cuisine is a poor example to pick because few are expert on what constitutes authenticity and appropriation here, Kou attempts to clarify 'authenticity' but doesn't quite succeed IMO, but that's by-the-by.]


Edited by Dean - April 11 2016 at 05:06
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2016 at 09:08
Another trap liked by people who are now facing every quirk and aspect of their lives suddenly being turned against.
It's Centralization vs De-Centralization now. But there will be more lunatic stuff like this in due course!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2016 at 21:50
I'm with the majority on this one. TAKE DOWN THE SJW'S!!!!!
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