Video & PC Game Discussion

Siam, how are you getting on with Fable 2 and Fallout 3?

I've not got them but my mate has and he says they're both excellent.

Ocarina o' Time

stonebeard wrote: Ocarina o' Time

I'm into Fallout 3 (PC) at the moment. definitely recommended, although just as with Oblivion, I could do without the flawed dialog sections. It really jerks you out of the immersion unless you're lucky enough to hit the right multiple choice response sequences. That really needs to be worked on.

KoS wrote: ^ Games are more innovative now than ever, and also shorter. It's the same mentality that some people use on prog saying that  the '70's were the best and that today's prog is nothing special.

• 90's mortal Kombat (I II III trilogy and IV) and nowadays
• Classic survival horror games (Resident Evil , Silent Hill , Alone in the Dark) and nowadays games from the same franchises+ lots of copy cats)
• Final Fantasy VII and XII
• Gran turismo II vs Gran Turismo 4
• MGS and MGS3
• Medal of honor I and II and nowadays version

Just the graphics to me. The basics are the same. From the first PSX (32 bits) to PS2 (256) the console is 8 times more powerful. But are the games 8 times more entertaining?

• Sports games , they are more realistic (sometimes too much) but you cant compare vitua tennis with Top Spin or good ol' Winning Eleven vs nowadays version (the older was damn entertaining too)
• Need for Speed series. They lost to Gran Turismo in the 90's but with the Underground series they made an amazing game. (However the best is the second one , Pro Street is more of the same)
• GTA series. No explanation needed , although Driver cleared the path for nowadays GTA.

I haven't played it in a few weeks, but I got a PSP at the end of August.  I've beaten Crisis Core, Patapon, Metal Gear Solid Portable Ops, and LocoRoco so far.  I still have Valkyrie Profile left to play. 

I just started playing Warcraft III again too.

darkmatter wrote: I just started playing Warcraft III again too.

OK, I've bitten - after all the hype & reading so much about this World Of Warcraft (not least from one of my fellow admins), I've decided to give it a try; used to love RPGs & can honestly say I've not seen a negative review of WoW, so stumped up & purchased this yesterday...

...any advice for a 45 yr old WoW newbie?

crimson87 wrote:     It's an interesting discussion , we would have to come with another thread.   But the way I see it: what's the BIG difference between those games   •    90's mortal Kombat (I II III trilogy and IV) and nowadays •    Classic survival horror games (Resident Evil , Silent Hill , Alone in the Dark) and nowadays games from the same franchises+ lots of copy cats) •    Final Fantasy VII and XII •    Gran turismo II vs Gran Turismo 4 •    MGS and MGS3 •    Medal of honor I and II and nowadays version Just the graphics to me. The basics are the same. From the first PSX (32 bits) to PS2 (256) the console is 8 times more powerful. But are the games 8 times more entertaining? In my opinion , the true revolution in video games was the change from 16 bits to 32 bits. From that point there was little space for innovation.   However there were a couple of games that were improved.   •    Sports games , they are more realistic (sometimes too much) but you cant compare vitua tennis with Top Spin or good ol' Winning Eleven vs nowadays version (the older was damn entertaining too) •    Need for Speed series. They lost to Gran Turismo in the 90's but with the Underground series they made an amazing game. (However the best is the second one , Pro Street is more of the same) •    GTA series. No explanation needed , although Driver cleared the path for nowadays GTA.

You are right, not counting graphics there is not a lot of “in your face” change going on. What it is, is gradual steps. You mention several titles that have had some minor changes from one to the other. The thing is that most games in a series do not change very much, especially if they are launched in the same console cycle.  

There is also the problem with the types of genres that the games belong to. You mentioned some Final Fantasy titles that belong to the Japanese RPG genre. The problem with genres is that after a while they become stale and begin to feel as copies for each other. I used to be a fan of JRPG’s but most of them are really just the same. The JRPG genre is dwindling because of the lack of innovation. FFXII, however did improve on the stale sort of turn based combat by giving the player more control and making it more into an action game. There is also the diffence between Western RPG’s which are much more open ended such as the Oblivion, Fallout and Diablo series.

You also mentioned franchised games. The problem with franchises is that the first game establishes the gameplay(controls), story, and look of the game. Most franchises do not change radically because they don’t want to shoot themselves in the foot. Look at the difference between Resident Evil 4 and previous ones. In RE4, the controls got much tighter; you don’t have the tank controls of previous games. The game feels more action based and it is passed that way. One of the innovations in gaming is the pacing the game in a way that resembles peaks and valleys of action.  
How a game tells the story is what I feel is what is most exciting about game design today. The established way of telling story in a game is either through cut scenes or text. Games such as Half-Life 2 and Bioshock rely on the environment and characters in the game to tell you the story. In Half-Life, Valve devolved a way to make faces move and react as real people do. This created a series of empathetic characters that you care about. The Half-Life series takes the player on a sort of Disneyland ride through the game but it does not feel directed at any point because of the pacing and level design.

Through advancing technology games not only look better but play better and can do a lot more. The AI in games can now be advanced enough that it can feel as if you are playing against real people and not just a computer. The increasing fidelity of games also helps the player feel as if they are in the world of the game. With HD sets and 5.1 surround sound, the player is now enveloped whatever world that the game is. Whereas before it was more abstractions on the screen, nowadays realistic looking people, animals, and environments can have a greater emotional impact on the gamer. Even the Wii, is an innovation because not only is it bringing motion control into games but it is also broadening and softening the people towards games. The social aspect of gaming is also an innovation. As a result of broadband internet, more and more people can now play online with friends and strangers. You can play games such as Halo, or Gears of War with an online co-player. In World of Warcraft, there are over 10 million subscribers that use that game not only as a pastime but as a social network such as Myspace. Not only that but games such as Little Big Planet and Spore are letting the gamer create things in the game that other people can see and play with. With Little Big, the developers are hoping for a Youtube like experience where you can create your own game and share it with other people.


I’m getting tired of typing so here is a list of some innovative games in the past few years(I’ll add descriptions later):

•    Half-Life 2 and Episodes
•    Portal
•    Shadow of  the Colossus
•    Metal Gear 4
•    Team Fortress 2
•    Braid
•    Little Big Planet
•    Spore
•    Resident Evil 4
•    Bioshock

KoS wrote: •    Half-Life 2 and Episodes •    Portal •    Shadow of  the Colossus •    Metal Gear 4 •    Team Fortress 2 •    Braid •    Little Big Planet •    Spore •    Resident Evil 4 •    Bioshock

I'll add a few:


Company of Heroes (squad-based RTS, requring you to plan, prepare well-balanced armies and micromanage intensively)
10tacle/Simbin racing simulation games (GT Legends, GTR, GTR 2, Race, GTR Evolution etc.)
Dead Space (not sure how innovative this one is, apart from the incredible ligthing and sound effects, but it's the scariest game I can think of, including the Silent Hill series. System Shock 2 is probably on par with it, though)


Probably also Empire Total War, when it comes out in February. While it won't be as revolutionary as the first in the series - Shogun Total War - it's shaping up to be a massive step forward from its two immediate predecessors.


Edited by Visitor13 - November 14 2008 at 15:37

I've been playing FFIV recently on my GBA on the way to uni unfortunately I've not really had the time to get some proper gaming in.