Is the Middle East going to war? |
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Eetu Pellonpaa
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 17 2005 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 4828 |
Posted: July 17 2006 at 15:59 | ||
I'm just watching the news, and there have been more missiles being fired at Israel, one claimed to hit a hospital. It's understandable that this leads to a counter attack, but bombing the rooftops used for launching sites probably won't kill anything but the people living downstairs, as the guerrilas have surely already fled. Couldn't these rockets be tried to be shot down from patrolling fighters or by anti-aircarft artillery before they reach their targets? Is there any estimations how much Hezbollah does have these rockets?
I feel sad for all of those who are and will be hurt.
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NetsNJFan
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
Posted: July 17 2006 at 16:41 | ||
^ Estimates are that they have used about 10% of the their stockpile, in other words nothing. They get around $250 million a year from Iran, that buys a lot of rockets. Luckily, they haven't used any of their supposed Iranian Zelzal missiles, which can reach Tel Aviv. If this happens, I have no doubt either Syria or Iran is in for some bombing, since Hizbullah clearly lacks the capability to build or buy missiles with 100km ranges on their own.
Finding the launchign sites is exceedingly difficult, Eetu. Arab guerillas have a tendency to build their military posts next to civilian targets. (I.e. all those bomb factories in Gaza next to nursery schools and hospitals -- they feel it gives them some cover of safety.)
Props to the Arabs, or at leats some of their govenrments; they've finally grown up and chosen stability over hatred and ideology:
Jpost.com -- worth a read.
Edited by NetsNJFan - July 17 2006 at 18:03 |
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edible_buddha
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 195 |
Posted: July 18 2006 at 07:12 | ||
Finding the launchign sites is exceedingly difficult, Eetu. Arab guerillas have a tendency to build their military posts next to civilian targets. (I.e. all those bomb factories in Gaza next to nursery schools and hospitals -- they feel it gives them some cover of safety.)
Err Nets...
Do you have any understanding how small Gaza actually is??? On top of this, consider just how many ppl actually live there, and consider that Israel has been pounding this tiny plot of land for quite a while now. It is one of the most densely populated areas on this planet... Also, some have stated that palestine has been committing 'terror', yet Israel receives 6-8 billion US dollars in 'millitary aid' per year. And its not as if they are not using it. Where else are you going to put these 'bomb factories', assuming that your source is correct.
When some one bombs you, you do have a wish/desire to bomb them back... That has been Israels line for many years now, and gives them 'reason' to 'punish' the palestinian ppl. Yet, this reasoning cannot be used by the Palestinians for their retaliations with far less sophisticated equipment in this tit-for tat conflict. Why is that? Whats fair for one is fair for all btw... Also, Israel have a rather wide practice of not allowing ambulances with palestinian casualties to receive medical aid, and they have hit quite a few hospitals themselves... That is after the bulldozing of entire civilian blocks on many occasions. And I will repeat something else that I have said previously... Check out just how many civilians have died on both sides....Terror has been committed on both sides.
I thought that the Israli government would have gained enough sence that military might just does not help them get what they desire. Apparently, the support for the Hamas-majority government has actually grown since the most recent attacks in Gaza (apparently triggered by the capture of a 19 yr old Israeli soldier). U c, the ppl who live there are simply used to such a lifestyle.
Dont get me wrong, I condemn the use of arms at any civilian territary, whether in Israel, Lebanon, Palestine, or else where. And palestine/Hesballah/Lebanon et al, are just as bad (not worse, not better). However, what really riles me about this topic so far is that many here seem to think that Israel is the 'Innocent victim'.
They are not.
Edited by edible_buddha - July 18 2006 at 07:19 |
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I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: July 18 2006 at 09:03 | ||
This report from the Jerusalem post makes interesting reading. It seems Sen John McCain (Arizona) and former house speaker Newt Gingrich have a somewhat melodramtic perspective on the crisis.
Jerusalem Post The difference in international media reporting will always fascinate me. Edited by Blacksword - July 18 2006 at 16:47 |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: July 25 2006 at 03:04 | ||
While Israel continues to push its dubious agenda of bombing ambulances and taring this country to pieces, the US and UK stand back and applaud. The rest of the world is not so accomodating of Israels 'right to defend itself'
Well, all is not lost. Diplomacy had to rear its ugly head eventually, and today Condoleeza Rice visits Israel for 'frank' discussions with Mr Olmert. What effect will her visit have? Is there seriously a hope for a ceasfire with Americas help, or is this visit nothing more than window dressing to create the impression that the Bush Whitehouse wants Israel to stop?? Here comes Condie.... Israel has rejected the idea of putting UN peacekeepers in a 'buffer zone' on the northern Israeli border, and favours a NATO force to police the area instead. Is this a good idea or just a back door means of positioning western forces for when Iran and Syria join in the fun?? Edited by Blacksword - July 25 2006 at 03:06 |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Bob Greece
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1823 |
Posted: July 25 2006 at 03:34 | ||
I've heard that they have now started bombing sources of food production. Is there really nothing that cannot be considered a target?
If they really gave 2 hoots about saving innocent peoples' lives, they would have sent somebody immediately that Israel started bombing and not wait until hundreds are dead and the country is half destroyed.
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Bob Greece
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1823 |
Posted: July 25 2006 at 05:08 | ||
Yes. I first remember this when reading online Serbian newspapers during the Kosovo war.
You would hope that having the ability to read everyones' viewpoints would increase understanding and reduce conflicts. Sadly that doesn't seem to be the case.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: July 25 2006 at 05:20 | ||
I guess the US regard this as part of the 'war on terror' They must be delighted that Israel are doing the dirty work on Hezbollah here. After all, Hezbollah are very strongly linked to Iran and Syria. However, it seems that Israels current campaign has been ineffective in crushing the terrorists, and has succeeded only in killing civillians. Sadly it will get to a point where so many are radicalised and enraged by the Zionist onslaught, that the terror cycle will be set to worsen for Israel and the west. Not improve. Perhaps Israel have realised this and will set about a mass extermination program once their invasion starts. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Bob Greece
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1823 |
Posted: July 25 2006 at 08:21 | ||
According to the BBC news today, Condoleeza went to Israel to express support not to ask for a ceasefire.
This was obvious to me. Israel won't get rid of Hizbollah this way. The bombing of Lebanon is just a big recruiting drive for them. What little chance there was for peace in the Middle East has just got a lot lot further away.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: July 25 2006 at 09:53 | ||
..and of course the worse the terror threat gets for them - and us - the more we will fight back. It's a familiar cycle. The perfect recipe for escalation. |
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
Posted: July 25 2006 at 12:11 | ||
I bet part of the reason the response was slow is the we (the US) is piss scared of this whole thing. We are streched so thin around the world, any serious involvement in this conflict would lead to questions of whether or not we would get involved, which would require a draft, which I personally think should be abolished.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: July 25 2006 at 16:23 | ||
A draft would be a nightmare and a very bad move. I'm inclined to think there would be so much opposition in the US even Bush wouldn't go that far..
That said, if the conflict escalates..... ? The Israelis want a NATO peacekeeping force on the Lebanese border. This will conveniently position up to 20,000 foreign troops in the area, and is a shrewd way of pulling other nations into this. Hezbollah will capitlaise on this too, by targetting them. This would lead to more being sent to the region, stretching western military forces to breaking point (if we're not nearly there already). Meanwhile the invisible terrorists will be targetting the US and EU. |
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Bob Greece
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1823 |
Posted: July 26 2006 at 07:08 | ||
I never thought of that. But I thought that there are already UN troups in the area. Weren't the UN in Lebanon in the past?
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: July 26 2006 at 07:24 | ||
Yes, the UN are still there. Two UN peacekeepers were killed by the Israelis this morning (or last night) The Israelis claim it was an accident, but apparently it 'appeared' to be deliberate. Israel does not like the UN, and doesn't want them there. |
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Bob Greece
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1823 |
Posted: July 27 2006 at 10:03 | ||
When I read these stories I just feel despair ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/5218036.stm It makes you want to cry doesn't it? Edited by Bob Greece - July 27 2006 at 10:04 |
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: July 27 2006 at 11:53 | ||
^ Yes, it's a dreadful situation.
I cant believe the Israeli arrogance - I know there is good and bad on both sides - but to claim the whole world supports them is incredible. The US and the UK support them. Thats all. The rest of the world is opposed to this action. |
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Bob Greece
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1823 |
Posted: July 28 2006 at 04:13 | ||
This is ridiculous. UN expresses 'shock and distress' about UN deaths. Of course, it's terrible but what about the hundreds of other people dying. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5222890.stm
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Bob Greece
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1823 |
Posted: July 28 2006 at 04:26 | ||
I don't think the UK supports them. It's just that Tony Blair is so keen to do anything to please Bush.
Yo Blair! Edited by Bob Greece - July 28 2006 at 04:27 |
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
Posted: July 28 2006 at 04:36 | ||
I heard a report of 600 dead in conflict so far. All for 3 soldiers...*shakes head*
Is this supposed to be justified?
Lasting peace my ass! How naive can we be? Ask for a cease-fire now!!! Wasn't there a cease-fire at the time of the kidnappings?!?! Like anything will prevent it from happening again.
As for the US, I say have no involvment at all. I'm sick and tired of this bullsh*t conflict! You want to blow yourselves to pieces? FINE! I'd rather live my life than have it involved in a futile conflict. Whenever you guys feel like dropping this sh*t and joining the 21st century, the western hemisphere is wide open.
Edit: No offense intended to those who might be offended. Thinking out loud.... Edited by stonebeard - July 28 2006 at 04:38 |
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: July 28 2006 at 04:52 | ||
Yeah, you're right, Bob. Margarat Beckett wasn't happy about Prestwick airport being used to ship bombs to Israel. Blair is once again in Bushs lap, although they are meeting today I believe, and Blair intends to try and pursuade Bush to call for a ceasefire. The only chance of a diplomatic solution is if the entire world isolates the US and Israel, and of course if Hezbollah stops firing rockets into Northern Israel too. It's a two way street, but the double standards of Israel, and the west generally are shameful. |
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