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Interactive Poll: Sounds of Asia

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Poll Question: Which three are your favourites?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
4 [12.12%]
0 [0.00%]
5 [15.15%]
2 [6.06%]
2 [6.06%]
1 [3.03%]
2 [6.06%]
4 [12.12%]
2 [6.06%]
0 [0.00%]
3 [9.09%]
2 [6.06%]
4 [12.12%]
2 [6.06%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
You can not vote in this poll

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Mila-13 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mila-13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2021 at 09:33
No problem, Mira! Thank you very much. I hope you enjoyed your holidays? It's not easy to make a choice indeed. You chose cultural diversity which is great! Smile


Edited by Mila-13 - September 06 2021 at 10:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mila-13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2021 at 09:51

Hello again,

The nominations are all in. You can start voting now. You have until next weekend to do so. Saturday 11. September would be great with regard to the next poll.

Enjoy and have fun!


Playlist: Nominated songs




Edited by Mila-13 - September 06 2021 at 09:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2021 at 10:08
my three choices

Jambinai: Onda/Prelude 
Isfar Sarabski & Band: Novruz 
Altin Gün: Tatli Dile Güler Yüze 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote The Anders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2021 at 17:29
First batch:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snicolette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2021 at 17:41
Originally posted by The Anders The Anders wrote:



  LOLClap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2021 at 10:40
^ Geinoh Yamashirogumi is drawing on more of the Japanese cultural traditions than may be apparent to most.  Instead of celery, I suspect pickled daikon. ;) The write-up is much appreciated Anders. :)

Edited by Logan - September 07 2021 at 10:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Snicolette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2021 at 13:17
There were 9 solid contenders for the first 3 spots for me.  Finally, narrowed it down to 6, then made choices between the 6.

1.  George: Loved this one so much, it was easily my first choice:  Blackstring “Hanging Gardens of Babylon”  This opens with a solo of an I don’t know the name of the instrument, but similar to a mizmar.  A sort of koto instrument is utilized, as well as electric guitar and some sort of hammered instrument, like a kanun or santur.  There is also some sort of traditional drum, worn on the player’s body, as if for marching.  The mizmar-ish instrumentalist comes to the fore again, then the hammered instrument, then back to the mizmar thing.  Now it’s the koto-ish person’s turn and back to the mizmar.  Now, the guitarist’s time to shine.  The pace picks up in intensity, then all play together again.  This is fantastic. 
Note:  Also, if you' d chosen, would have garnered a second listen:  Wahh World Fusion Band “Desire On Fire," and Yoshida Brothers “Rising."

2.   Christian:  You undisciplined person, you!  😉  This one won out over the various hypnotic pieces for me:  Toshimaru Nakamura “Live at Japanorama”  Begins very subtlely with some high, yet very quiet electric kinds of sounds and an occasional quiet thunk.  Little bell-like sounds come up, with a fair amount of sustain, thinking it’s natural sustain, if they are indeed bells.  Very meditative. About halfway in, the quiet almost heartbeatlike sounds become more steady with some little clicky-clackies added in.  The clicky-clackies ebb and flow for a bit, then some quiet bells again, very high-pitched.  The bells are like Tibetan bells, when they are using the little baton to encircle the bells.  Some louder whangling commences and intensifies into almost siren-like sounds, yet still whirly.  Another abruptly ending piece.  I quite enjoyed this one also.  
Note:  Also if you'd chosen, up for 2nd listen:  Anoushka Shankar “Land of Gold," and Talvin Singh “Seven Notes." 

3.  Cristi:  This won for me, of the rockier sorts:  Mono “Nowhere, Now Here”  Live outing this time some quiet guitar notes begin this one, which may be moody, perhaps.  Drums enter quietly.  There is a swelling sort of sound (keys? Or something like a cello?  Can’t tell yet).  Contemplative tone being set.  Ah, now comes the apocalypse.  I like it here.  It was strings, after all.  Guessing this will be my favourite of yours, Cristi.  Builds into a lovely climactic wash of guitar, about halfway in, still keeping with that hopelessness in emotional feel.  Everyone joins back in as the piece comes to fever pitch.  Excellent!  

The three others in contention for 1-3 were, in no particular order:  

Lorenzo:  Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan “Mustt Mustt” 
Kees:  Altin Gün “Tatlı Dile Güler Yüze”  
Mirakaze:  The Monks of the Dip Tse Chok Ling Monastery “A Traditional Composition for Gya Ling and Dung Chen," also if chosen, Toru Takemitsu “Dodes’kaden," and anNina “対象a”

Honourable Mentions Go To:

Anders:  Dewa Alit & Gamelan Salukat “Dripping Water/Yeh Jgetel”
I prophesy disaster: Baraka “Balinese Monkey Chant," and if chosen, toe “Esoteric” 
Mila:  Isfar Sarabski & Band “Novruz," and, if she'd chosen it,  Anandi Bhattacharya “In Between Us”

This time, everyone had something, so I'm not going to go into my "if they'd chosen," list as usual.  This was an incredible round!  Thank you to Mila for hosting and the playlist and also to Lorenzo, as always, for this very innovative creation and variation on a typical poll setup.

Very Special Mention to Mike for Jambinai.  If it had been the first time I heard this, I'm sure it would have won, hands down, for me.  
 




Edited by Snicolette - September 07 2021 at 13:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2021 at 13:20
I lack confidence in my powers of expression to write mini-reviews of the music, but these are three that I appreciated.  In no real order of preference (the third I mention is the one I will definitely be looking into more of -- really appreciated the Toshimaru Nakamura, and by mentioning it last hardly means least )

What's brown and sounds like a bell?  Dung! Mention one goes to A Traditional Composition for Gya Ling & Dung Chen

What do you call a monkey in a minefield? Baboom! My second mention is the Balinese Monkey Chant.

What do you call a round sushi? Sushimaru (I only do this because Sushi Maru is a local restaurant I often go to and maru means circle or round, don't know or remember if Toshi means something).  My third mention will be Toshimaru Nakamura: Live @Japanorama

So that's my three votes.


Edited by Logan - September 07 2021 at 13:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2021 at 14:25
Originally posted by The Anders The Anders wrote:

First batch:
I actually think it's just a short tune.What I love about it is the double bass rhythm effect from the "backside" drummer. I wish it was longer too. They used to run a festival at Roy Thomson Hall in Toronto called 'Supercussion'.  Drum and rhythm bands from all over the world. It had some cool acts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2021 at 15:11
What a beautiful poll!

Strange sounds come to my ears!

I am afraid I was very busy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2021 at 16:12
@Nicky: And I picked the Nakamura one without even having read your earlier comment on it; was expecting to surely not get your vote for this one but here we are! Much appreciated. As well as your vote @Logan of course!

Other than that, having listened 5 1/2 numbers into the poll now, this may be the strongest ever. Every single one worth a vote yet!


Edited by Lewian - September 07 2021 at 16:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2021 at 18:07
Small dissertation

To evaluate, give a balanced judgment on an artistic opera, a person must be a good connoisseur. 

The neophyte, the one who discovers an art, tends to get enthusiastic easily and to exchange works for masterpieces that, with the passage of time, he will consider little more than modest operas. 

quantity affects quality: when you've seen or heard or read a lot, it's harder to say: this is an absolute masterpiece.

Now, I know Italian music well, I know pop, folk and rock, and the prog of the seventies and eighties well. I know I can make balanced judgments, that is, I have points of reference, my own criteria that I formed together with my sensitivity (issues of emotional approach). Before Logan tells me that it is all subjective I say that my judgments are balanced according to my criteria ;-), that is, I know very well that I am talking about my own criteria (here I am speaking as a music critic, in my small way). That is, in other words, if one studied my judgments, he would find a logic in it, which he can approve or not, but he would find a logic and, after a careful study, he will be able to predict a good part of the my judgments (I do not say everything)

Specifying that there is always something imponderable in judgments, at least mine, because there is the emotional, passionate component, which for me as an Italian is very important and often unpredictable, the fact remains that my judgments have a logic recognizable.

Which is not strictly correlated to my tastes, as I often say: I can judge an art-work as modest (a painting, a film, a novel, a long playing) and have it among my favorites, for example if it is a disco I often listen to it

Now, all of this happens with the art you know well, and therefore the music you know well.

If, on the other hand, you compare yourself with the music you dont know well, for example, in my case, jazz, or electronic or Indian music with few Western characteristics, I feel displaced, I don't have solid criteria, a stable, balanced way to evaluate, and therefore my judgments are likely to coincide with my tastes.

And this doesn't just happen to me:
For example: the song Within You, Without You by George Harrison in SgT Pepper's is judged sometimes well, sometimes badly by the critics, from those who shout at the masterpiece to those who cry to disaster, (a critic said it is music for a poor Indian movie, worthy of a beginner).
This is because a Western music critic who does not know Indian music is greatly influenced by his tastes, by what the music inspires him, and therefore you can find diametrically opposed judgments.

Personally, I consider it a beautiful song, albeit tiring (the melody of the singing is always the same, the rhythm is slow and there are many stop and go). The fact that Indian arrangements have been mixed with the western strings arranged by George Martin for me makes it a great successful experiment that touches a remarkable climax of emotional intensity in the instrumental parts. But I understand that if it hadn't been for the string part, maybe I would have liked Indian music alone less and I would have been less able to value it.

In conclusion, with the Asian music of this poll, I find myself unprepared, my judgments will be unbalanced and weighted and I will choose a lot according to my tastes. Normally I make a compromise between my judgments and my tastes, here I will have to go only by instinct, choose based on tastes and... that's all.




Edited by jamesbaldwin - September 07 2021 at 18:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2021 at 18:33
^ An interesting read. I don't think it's all subjective and would argue that one can be more objective when one has greater knowledge and familiarity. And while personal biases are a common factor in appreciation, one can utilise frameworks of analysis for a more objective evaluation within that framework (even if biases are behind the framework). It's harder to judge when you don't have as many reference points and you haven't learnt "the musical language" so much. My issue sometimes is when people without adequate justification claim something to be good or bad from an objective standpoint, yet it clearly comes down to personal taste and often lack of experience from that person when it comes to bad (the right comparisons help). I don't take a deeply analytical approach to how I choose in these, I'd say that I go with what most appeals to me in some way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2021 at 12:12
After having listened to all of the suggestions last weekend I knew I had to come back to some to listen again to have a more clear opinion on them. Today I had a more focused listening session and it changed some of my earlier appreciations...When this poll theme was announced, I was a bit afraid of the "traditional" music offerings that would come by - those that are often, and stupidly, qualified as "world music". I'm generally not fan of it, though sometimes there are good surprises. But, in the end, my own tastes dominate in my choices. So, no extensive commenting, here are my votes.

3. At first I thought "gamelan music, oh no, here we go..." but upon the first notes I was fascinated by this contemporary piece. A great composition that works well from start to finish, despite the gamelans! So, a first vote for Dewa Alit & Gamelan Salukat with Dripping Water.

2. (or maybe 1) The biggest surprise was for me probably this piece: by its length (how dare you to put up a 20min. piece Wink), but especially by its richness and variety in musical offerings and changes of atmosphere. Very cinematic at places, very rock at others, very japanese at others (and maybe everywhere...). An intriguing and great listen throughout for me, so a vote for Geinoh Yamashirogumi playing Osorezan.

1. (or maybe 2, thus): This should be of no surprise to some of you, yes I'm that predictable sometimes, but Toshimaru Nakamura piece is indeed right up my ally: electronic music (with a Steve Reich like part in it) from Japan, I have to dive into that, I guess. And I'm glad you chose this one and not Cornelius (whose visuals are wonderful - will vote that in your spin-off poll - but the music was less interesting to me)...


Some other considerations:
- I liked all three of the post-rocky nominations, but regarding Jambinai I changed my take on it after several listens: First I very much liked it and the integration of the traditional instruments works very well, but upon subsequent listens apart from the instrumentation it ticked too many boxes of the post rock clichés for me. Not bad at all, but musically I found Mono's offering - also ticking quite some of those same boxes - a bit more interesting and varied, with a nice integration of the orchestra. But in the end I found the Hanging Gardens of Babylon by Black String the most interesting and original of the three; musically very rich and a nice and effective mix of tradition and modernity. It ended almost on the podium.

- After subsequent listens I started to like Mustt Mustt by Nursat Fateh Ali Khan more and more: a nice funky groove underneath a wonderful, more traditional performance. Not enough however to get to the podium.
- The Chieftains arrive to integrate the Irish and the Japanese in a very effective way, as if they have the same roots, almost. Nice listen.

Not nominated, but could have been contenders:
- Harry Partch - Delusion of the Fury; another great contemporary piece of music.
- Kikuo ft. Hanatan - The Girl That Sells Misfortune; quite intriguing and effective, nice discovery.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mila-13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2021 at 13:15

My votes go to:

Jambinai
Nursat Fateh Ali Khan
Altin Gün

I will comment on the music a bit later. It's not easy to comment on such a complex musical theme like this one, esp. for me as a non-native English speaker. 



Edited by Mila-13 - September 08 2021 at 13:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2021 at 14:43
Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

Small dissertation

To evaluate, give a balanced judgment on an artistic opera, a person must be a good connoisseur. 

The neophyte, the one who discovers an art, tends to get enthusiastic easily and to exchange works for masterpieces that, with the passage of time, he will consider little more than modest operas. 

quantity affects quality: when you've seen or heard or read a lot, it's harder to say: this is an absolute masterpiece.

Now, I know Italian music well, I know pop, folk and rock, and the prog of the seventies and eighties well. I know I can make balanced judgments, that is, I have points of reference, my own criteria that I formed together with my sensitivity (issues of emotional approach). Before Logan tells me that it is all subjective I say that my judgments are balanced according to my criteria ;-), that is, I know very well that I am talking about my own criteria (here I am speaking as a music critic, in my small way). That is, in other words, if one studied my judgments, he would find a logic in it, which he can approve or not, but he would find a logic and, after a careful study, he will be able to predict a good part of the my judgments (I do not say everything)

Specifying that there is always something imponderable in judgments, at least mine, because there is the emotional, passionate component, which for me as an Italian is very important and often unpredictable, the fact remains that my judgments have a logic recognizable.

Which is not strictly correlated to my tastes, as I often say: I can judge an art-work as modest (a painting, a film, a novel, a long playing) and have it among my favorites, for example if it is a disco I often listen to it

Now, all of this happens with the art you know well, and therefore the music you know well.

If, on the other hand, you compare yourself with the music you dont know well, for example, in my case, jazz, or electronic or Indian music with few Western characteristics, I feel displaced, I don't have solid criteria, a stable, balanced way to evaluate, and therefore my judgments are likely to coincide with my tastes.

And this doesn't just happen to me:
For example: the song Within You, Without You by George Harrison in SgT Pepper's is judged sometimes well, sometimes badly by the critics, from those who shout at the masterpiece to those who cry to disaster, (a critic said it is music for a poor Indian movie, worthy of a beginner).
This is because a Western music critic who does not know Indian music is greatly influenced by his tastes, by what the music inspires him, and therefore you can find diametrically opposed judgments.

Personally, I consider it a beautiful song, albeit tiring (the melody of the singing is always the same, the rhythm is slow and there are many stop and go). The fact that Indian arrangements have been mixed with the western strings arranged by George Martin for me makes it a great successful experiment that touches a remarkable climax of emotional intensity in the instrumental parts. But I understand that if it hadn't been for the string part, maybe I would have liked Indian music alone less and I would have been less able to value it.

In conclusion, with the Asian music of this poll, I find myself unprepared, my judgments will be unbalanced and weighted and I will choose a lot according to my tastes. Normally I make a compromise between my judgments and my tastes, here I will have to go only by instinct, choose based on tastes and... that's all.


Clap Congratulations. Excellent post. You have discovered the golden egg of this poll. Sometimes you have to put it all aside. Just put it on the shelf and take a leap of faith. I'm sure someone more famous than me once said "I may not know much about Asian music...But I know what I like !"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snicolette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2021 at 14:47
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

[QUOTE=jamesbaldwin]
Small dissertation
Clap Congratulations. Excellent post. You have discovered the golden egg of this poll. Sometimes you have to put it all aside. Just put it on the shelf and take a leap of faith. I'm sure someone more famous than me once said "I may not know much about Asian music...But I know what I like !"
  Well said, JD and also, Lorenzo!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2021 at 10:06
First impression

Toshimaru Nakamura (posted by Lewian? Or Suitkees?): Live at Japanorama

Ten minutes of electronic sounds (noises) often prolonged on the same wavelength. Here we are in the most extreme field of the electronic avant-garde, beyond which it could reach Cage's minute of silence. In these cases, a person can go from exaltation to contempt. I, as I have said several times, if I don't hear the music, if there isn't a musical score, a composition, but everything boils down to pure sound / noise, I remain suspicious, very suspicious and not just because I dont try the pleasure of listening, but also because Imho I find the operation conceptually and artistically doubtful, I hardly distinguish it from the pure research exercise - in the same way I am skeptical about long and virtuosic instrumental pieces, which to me often seem like exercises in style.

So, surely interesting from the point of view of intellectual curiosity, but in this case too extreme to enrich my heart or my imagination.





EDIT:

Now I see: it was posted by Christian.

In this case, I wonder, is there a way to recognize the Japanese origin of the piece? Is it a style of electronic music well developed in Japan?




Edited by jamesbaldwin - September 10 2021 at 12:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Mila-13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2021 at 15:42

This was an interesting and diverse edition, in terms of cultural backgrounds or musical genres. I would like to thank you all for being part of this musical journey!

Since many of you have already commented on the submitted songs or musical pieces  I decided to add just a few details about the instrumentation or cultural backgrounds.

On one hand we got to hear pure ethnic music from Bali and Tibet, the latter with a religious connotation and on the other hand different kinds of fusion with ethnic or folk elements, plus a few exceptions.


Ethnic Music

Kodo

is a Japanese taiko drum ensemble."Taiko" are a broad range of Japanese percussion drums. In Japanese the term refers to any kind of drum, but outside Japan, it is used specifically to refer to any of the various Japanese drums called wadaiko. They are still used today in religious ceremonies as well as in folk festivals such as thanksgiving and in the past in warfare.

Dewa Alit & Gamelan Salukat: 

A music ensemble from Bali playing “gamelan”, their traditional ensemble music where various traditional percussive instruments are used i.a. metallophones played by mallets and a set of hand-played drums called "kendhang", which register the beat. The "kemanak" (a banana shaped idiophone) and "gangsa" (another metallophone) are commonly used gamelan instruments in Java.

Balinese Monkey Chant 

is a “kecak”, a form of Balinese Hindu dance and music drama that was developed in the 1930s in Bali and is traditionally primarily performed by men.

The Monks of the Dip Tse Chok Ling Monastery

Ritual Music of Tibetan Buddhism: Musical chanting, most often in Tibetan or Sanskrit, is an integral part of the religion. These chants are complex, often recitations of sacred texts or in celebration of various festivals. 

Yang chanting, performed without metrical timing, is accompanied by resonant drums and low, sustained syllables. Each instrument mimics the sound of an animal, the drums being the footsteps of elephants and the horns mimic bird calls. Individual schools and even individual monasteries, maintain their own chant traditions. 


to be continued




Edited by Mila-13 - September 10 2021 at 17:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mila-13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2021 at 15:00

A personal reflection on our Asia poll.

The ethnic music in its pure form tells us a lot about the specific culture not only in terms of music but also in terms of the cultural characteristics and inner being of people from that cultural group. I think I can recognize this in particular with respect to Eastern and Southeastern Asian culture (Kodo JPN, Dewa Alit & Gamelan Salukat and  Balinese Monkey Chant). Corporate music exists in different shapes but here we can see it in its distinctive form. The collective is clearly placed above the self which is reflected in East and Southeast Asian social structure to date.

Therefore, the increased need for individual expression doesn’t surprise me, it is rather a logical result. Japan is f.e. a pioneer in the field of video game music which offers plenty of space for individual work. My suggested but not nominated piece by Kikuo ft. Hanatan is a good example here. In an intensified form we can see it in the field of improvisational music. The Onkyo music movement emerging from Japan in the late 1990s aptly demonstrate this (Toshimaru Nakamura). Geinoh Yamashirogumi is another variety of this desire to experiment, here within a collective, and in the form of their re-interpretation of folk music, as well as their fusion of various traditional musical styles with modern instrumentation. Of course, technical progress does affect the creative process everywhere and in many fields but it seems to me that this development particularely corresponds the East Asian way of being.

I wonder whether I am on the right track or is it rather a preconceived idea that I have about East Asian nature?




Edited by Mila-13 - September 11 2021 at 16:04
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