Theism v. Atheism in Prog

Valdez wrote: jammun wrote: Just a thought for consideration:  all Western music as we know it, and especially prog, was originally financed by the Catholic church.  (No, I'm not a Catholic nor much of a Christian for that matter.)   Rockin the Papacy one Cardinal at a time. Agnus Dei!

beautiful

I think Ulver's music has a lot of religious themes (especially the Blake album) but I think they speak so vaguely on the subject (best example being on Blood Inside) that the lyrics come across more as a personal take on religion that a message per se, which I think benefits the subject. The whole Blood Inside album seems to focus on the aspects of death in general perhaps, and I think the way Ulver approaches religion is not preachy at all, but still gets a points across if one looks for it, I suppose.

It's very subtle and seems never ever to come before the music (except for perhaps one line, which seems to damn heaven as a joke of some sort).

This is all odd and contrasts with the Blake album, which, obviously, reflects, either directly or indirectly, the religious viewpoints of Blake himself. Yet, again, the music typically seems to come before any sort of message they might have.

I think they use theistic and I suppose atheistic elements as well to forward a more broad subject, which I think makes sense as it does not interfere with their music, and also it isn't trying to force any religious ideals down the throat of the listener--something many bands (*cough* RUSH *cough*) fail to achieve.

Anyway, that was a bit scatterbrained, as I'm very tired. So i apologize for any possible incoherency.

Don't forget Anderson and Yes were also inspired by The Bhagavad Gita when they created "Close to the Edge"!

I'm suprised no one has brought up Dream Theater's "In the Name of God". I'm still unsure whether they are on one side saying religon is corupt and terrible, or if they're presenting both sides and staying in the middle.

keiser willhelm wrote: $ I was speaking from the point of view of anderson, so those aren't my thoughts per-say, but his. But the Catholic Church most definitely wrote the new testament, which although much shorter than the old, sets up an extremely new and radical image of God, very different from the Hebrew God of the old testament. And if you will, how does he attack judaism? he only attacks Organized religion as epitomized by the Catholic Church and, i missed this "The bloody Church of England / in chains of history", the Anglican church (very similar to Catholicism) I still stand by my post. in the end Ian doesnt reject all religion and all Gods, just the popularised Christian image of God. The last song My God is very telling. HIS God. not THEIR God. he doesnt reject all Gods and all religions as an atheist would, he takes HIS God.

To cite Back Door Angels

Why do the faithful have such a will To believe in something And call it the name they choose Having chosen nothing

That seems very general and anti-religious (not atheistic, but certainly anti-religious). If we can extrapolate intent back to Aqualung, then...

@Pnoom. We'll have to agree to disagree, then. I didn't like the style or wording, so...

I just wanted to bring up one album that has lyrics that are virtually quotes of the bible:

Popol Vuh's Seligpreisung
http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=6133

My review for that album was poor...
Anyway, I think that is a totally different perspective on what christian music usually is. (As a reply to those who said that christian music was rarely interesting). To the people who have heard it, ¿Do you find it preachy?

Just a little trivia for those of you who may not know; The band's name 'Popol Vuh' is taken from the name of the Mayan Codex.

Cthulu wrote: Don't forget Anderson and Yes were also inspired by The Bhagavad Gita when they created "Close to the Edge"!

Actually it was Siddharta!

Oh, I should say Orphaned Land's "Mabool" is the perfect blend of religious storytelling and good prog. Not like Neal Morse, who drowns in his own preachiness.

fuxi wrote: Cthulu wrote: In "Aqualung" Ian Anderson was satirizing the treatment of God in organized religion. Anderson's album "Divinities: Twelve Dances with God" is New Age instrumental music about God! I know about "Twelve Dances with God". It's precisely the mellowing in Ian's attitude (in middle age) which led him to state (in his ISLE OF WIGHT DVD Commentary) that he was never against God as such. But this doesn't change the fact that AQUALUNG's liner notes (which I quoted earlier) sound atheist. I wonder why so many of you keep harping on the "fact" that Ian was ONLY against organised religion. Do you find it so hard to swallow that he might have had atheist ideas when young?

Well I think liner notes 7 through 9 show the point of all his seemingly atheist and satirical remarks in notes 1 through 6:
7 - But as these things did come to pass, the Spirit that did cause Man to create his God lived on within all Men: even within Aqualung.
8 - And Man saw it not.
9 - But for Christ's sake he'd better start looking.

It seems to me that Ian is saying that even though Man used God to rule over the Earth (in religion, church authority, etc.), it eventually came to pass (Protestants? Martin Luther? church reform/separation of church and state), and people (even Aqualung, which I think Ian was saying that all men are equal in the eyes of God) still contained 'the Spirit' (the voice of the real God, not Man's excuse-for-power God), but Man did not or can not see it (maybe because his mind is possessed by religion, and a belief system that inhibits a real connection with God) and that he needs to take the personal endeavor of finding God within him.

Of course, some can see just whatever message they'd like out of those lyrics, though. Sure it "sounds" Athiest, but I think thats just Mr. Anderson being clever again.


Edited by explodingjosh - May 11 2008 at 19:33