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Blacksword View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 08:24
Originally posted by avestin avestin wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Two Israeli troops captured by Hezbollah, on the Lebanese border..     Breaking News (BBC)

 

This is looking very bad. Some of my friends have been called to their reserve units to replace the regular army units so they can be available for whatever is to come.

I am waiting to be called as well, probably.

 

This is the time of the warmongerers


Are you in Israel, avestin??
    
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 08:49
Originally posted by Forgotten Son Forgotten Son wrote:

Originally posted by spacecraft spacecraft wrote:

Much is made of the Israeli insurgence into the Gaza strip, bombs dropping here, innocent people killed there. But, hardly anyone blinks an eye when the obnoxious, ignorant and arogant race ( not England, but the Arabs, and Palestinions in particular) kill Jews.


I beg your pardon? Confused
 
Agree with forgotten son. 
 
I feel that Spacecraft should do some research into just how many ppl are killed and injured in both sides of the conflict (not just currently, but also since the inception of israel, and especially since the '2nd intafada').  Also to find out just how much money is being funded to both sides.  Then there is the effect on livelihoods of the civilians there (yes there are palastinian civilians too). 
 
The 'oh my god israel is being driven into the sea' arguement is not holding water, we are talking about a 'state' that has already been driven there.
 
Also, I hear more about the deaths of isralies by palastinians that vise versa (in spite of actual casualty statistics), so, many eyes are blinked indeed.
 
I just love how countries like USA and Israel, who have been wanting the world to be democratic, react to a country whose ppl uses democracy to vote in a party they dont like..... Theres got to be a reason palestinians voted the way they did... has anybody asked them?
 
I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 10:04
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by avestin avestin wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Two Israeli troops captured by Hezbollah, on the Lebanese border..     Breaking News (BBC)

 

This is looking very bad. Some of my friends have been called to their reserve units to replace the regular army units so they can be available for whatever is to come.

I am waiting to be called as well, probably.

 

This is the time of the warmongerers


Are you in Israel, avestin??
    


Yes.
And my wife and I are going to leave it on August 6th to the USA for PhD studies.
Now I am afraid I will not have the chance to do it, since I will be called to my unit.
I feel terrible. This is very depressing. I thought I was used to getting my life being manipulated and disturved by all these outside intrusions in the appearance of the Arab-Israeli conflict, but this is really frightening. I honestly don't know what to do.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 10:21
Originally posted by avestin avestin wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by avestin avestin wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Two Israeli troops captured by Hezbollah, on the Lebanese border..     Breaking News (BBC)

 

This is looking very bad. Some of my friends have been called to their reserve units to replace the regular army units so they can be available for whatever is to come.

I am waiting to be called as well, probably.

 

This is the time of the warmongerers


Are you in Israel, avestin??
    


Yes.
And my wife and I are going to leave it on August 6th to the USA for PhD studies.
Now I am afraid I will not have the chance to do it, since I will be called to my unit.
I feel terrible. This is very depressing. I thought I was used to getting my life being manipulated and disturved by all these outside intrusions in the appearance of the Arab-Israeli conflict, but this is really frightening. I honestly don't know what to do.

That's terrible, Assaf. Ouch

Is there any chance at all that you wouldn't be called to your unit?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 10:25
^^^
Chances are little as I see it.
For the time being, only officers have been called so that they will be told what to expect. Then after receving their orders, the rest of the commanding force (which I am part of in my unit) and the rest of the soldiers will be called as well.
Honestly, I fear the worst.
I hope I am wrong.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 10:48
^^ Wow...That's seriously depressing .... Ouch I can't imagine what you're going through right now.

I guess the only thing we can do at this point is hope that the situation will end quickly and peacefully. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 11:10
Originally posted by avestin avestin wrote:

^^^
Chances are little as I see it.
For the time being, only officers have been called so that they will be told what to expect. Then after receving their orders, the rest of the commanding force (which I am part of in my unit) and the rest of the soldiers will be called as well.
Honestly, I fear the worst.
I hope I am wrong.

 
I hope you're wrong too.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 11:15
Avestin, I wish you the best of luck; If I were religous I'd be praying for you and your unit.
 
I am very surprised that Olmert attacked Lebanon and not the Syrians.  To be fair, Lebanon itself is terrified of Hizbullah, which controls southern Lebanon, not the Lebanese Army.  Hizbullah acts in effect as a Syrian/Iranian force in Lebanon, doing there dirty work.  Damascus is the onewho is declaring war, not Beirut.  The last thing Israel needs is another Vietnam, which Lebanon was for 18 years.
 
On a personal note, I don't want to hear any criticism about Israel's response from the French or Scandinavian governments.  Olmert is correct, this is an act of war, from Lebanon/Syria, and no other country would take it.
 
From Jpost.com
 
Quote
 
PM Olmert declares Hizbullah attack 'act of war' by Lebanon
 
Seven IDF soldiers were killed Wednesday in a Hizbullah attack on IDF forces patrolling the Lebanese border, it was released for publication.

Three soldiers riding in a Hummer jeep were also killed, while two other soldiers in the same jeep were kidnapped.

Four other soldiers died when the tank in which they were riding rode over a bomb, which detonated in a massive explosion. The force of the blast ripped the tank apart, and IDF forces were searching for the remains. All of the soldiers' families have been notified.

Wednesday morning's attacks, which occurred 17 days after IDF soldier Gilad Shalit was abducted in Gaza, opened a second front on Israel's northern border, including barrages of Katyusha rockets and mortar shells.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert declared the attack as an "act of war" and not terror. During a press conference with Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi Wednesday afternoon, he called it an unprovoked assault by a sovereign nation and held Lebanon, where Hizbullah has a minister in the government, fully responsible.

"Israel's response will be restrained but very, very, very painful," Olmert added.

The Defense Ministry confirmed early Wednesday afternoon that two IDF soldiers had been kidnapped by Hizbullah. IDF ground troops had been sent into Lebanon to search for the two. IAF jets, helicopters and UAVs were also flying above Lebanon searching for the soldiers. Several jets were flying patterns above Beirut, Channel 10 reported. Simultaneously, Navy gunboats and artillery along the border were shelling Hizbullah targets in Lebanon.

The army has destroyed 17 targets as well as Hizbullah outposts and three bridges since the beginning of the operation.

Hizbullah's Al Manar TV broadcast earlier Wednesday that the organization had kidnapped the two soldiers. A senior Hizbullah official said that at least one of the allegedly kidnapped soldiers was still alive. A senior IDF officer landed Wednesday afternoon in the northern Druse village of Kfar Yanuh apparently to inform a family there that their son had been kidnapped.

Hizbullah launched a heavy barrage of Katyusha rockets and mortar shells at IDF positions and communities along the northern frontier on Wednesday morning starting about 9:15 a.m. One rocket scored a direct hit on a house in Shtula. Magen David Adom said they had treated six people so far. Both soldiers and civilians have been wounded. The wounded were being evacuated to Nahariya hospital.

According to the military, an explosive charge detonated under an IDF tank, inflicting casualties.

IDF Northern Command officers were in touch with UN and Red Cross officials in Lebanon to try and conduct negotiations through those organizations with the Lebanese government in an effort to retrieve the captured soldiers diplomatically. According to IDF estimations, military campaigns in Lebanon had little chance of retrieving the soldiers.

Meanwhile, police all over the country have gone on high alert to prevent terror attacks.

According to Channel 10, Hizbullah has offered to exchange the two soldiers and Cpl. Gilad Shalit for thousands of security prisoners.

IDF sources estimated that the attack was a Hizbullah response to Israel's early Wednesday attempted strike on top Hamas terrorist Mohammad Deif in Gaza.

Residents of the Western Galilee entered their shelters, and in the community of Shlomi, residents were asked to enter fortified rooms early Wednesday.

The northern border has been on high alert since Operation Summer rains began. 



Edited by NetsNJFan - July 12 2006 at 11:22
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 11:30
Interestingly, it seems the kidnapped soldiers aren't even Zionists (Jews), they are Druze border patrols.  Nice job, Hizbullah.
 
On a seperate note, the Druze are actually the coolest people ever.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 11:32
Originally posted by avestin avestin wrote:

^^^Chances are little as I see it. For the time being, only officers have been called so that they will be told what to expect. Then after receving their orders, the rest of the commanding force (which I am part of in my unit) and the rest of the soldiers will be called as well. Honestly, I fear the worst. I hope I am wrong.


I hope you're wrong too. I'm very sorry you're having to go through this.
    
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 12:05
God I hate Kofi Annan.  Like usuall, he's made himself the first to "condemn Israel's actions without reservation."
 
Gimme a break. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 12:29
Originally posted by NetsNJFan NetsNJFan wrote:

God I hate Kofi Annan.  Like usuall, he's made himself the first to "condemn Israel's actions without reservation."
 

Gimme a break. 


Well, their actions are pretty OTT, Nets, but I would agree that Annan's condemnation is far from balanced. So far, he has just said the 'soldiers should be released' I'm sure Hamas will listen to him and do as they're told.. I dont think...

In answer to your original question in this thread; Yes, it looks like the ME is going to war. Big time.

Bad times.
      
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 12:29
Right now I am at the mercy of those generals and leaders that sit behind their desks and shout Forward. And you know what happens to the Front Rank now...

Thanks for your words of sympathy, fellas.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2006 at 00:13
Update from jpost.com:
 
IAF bombs Beirut International Airport

Quote IAF fighter jets bombed runways at Beirut International Airport early Thursday morning as part of a military campaign which it vowed would be harsh and quick against the Lebanese government and Hizbullah, which a day before killed eight IDF soldiers and kidnapped two others along the northern border.

It was unclear whether there were any casualties in the IAF strike.

Meeting in emergency session late Wednesday, the Cabinet approved plans by IDF echelons to target the airport and other strategic infrastructures inside Lebanon including power plants.

Earlier Thursday morning, several Katyusha rockets, fired by Hizbullah from southern Lebanon, landed on an IDF base in Mount Meron on Thursday morning. No one was wounded and no damage was reported.

Overnight Wednesday, the IAF struck a Hizbullah post and two bridges in southern Lebanon as the number of targets hit by the Airforce since fighting erupted after the kidnapping of two IDF soldiers, reached into the hundreds.

Meanwhile, Hizbullah shelled the Western Galilee with mortars. No one was wounded and no damage was reported.

For a Jerusalem Online video of events click here

Earlier, in a series of air strikes, IAF aircraft bombed Kfar Shuba and Sheba Farms. The communications infrastructure connecting Beirut to the south of the country was also damaged by IAF strikes.

The strikes followed an attack by IAF warplanes and navy gunboats on a Palestinian terrorist base south of Beirut late Wednesday in the closest raid to the Lebanese capital since fighting erupted.

Meanwhile, the names of six of the eight soldiers killed Wednesday in a Hizbullah attack on IDF forces patrolling the Lebanese border were released for publication Wednesday evening: Sgt. Nimrod Cohen, 19, from Mitzpe Shalem; Sgt.-Major Eyal Benin, 22, of Be'ersheba and Sgt.-Major Shani Turgeman, 24, of Beit Shean. All the soldiers' families have been notified.

The fourth victim was later identified as Sergeant-Major Wasim Nazel, 27, from the Druze village of Kfar Yanouch. Earlier, Nazel's family was mistakenly informed that he had been kidnapped.

Two of the soldiers who were killed when the tank in which they were riding drove over an explosive device, were identified as Staff-Sergeant Alexei Kashiniervski, 21, from Ness Ziona and Yaniv Bar-on, 19, from Maccabim.

Under heavy fire, IDF forces continued their attempts to reclaim the bodies of the four soldiers who died when their tank was ripped apart by the blast.

Three other soldiers were killed were riding in a Hummer jeep when it was attacked, while two other soldiers in the same jeep were kidnapped.

All residents along Israel's northern border from Nahariya in the west to Kiryat Shmona in the east were ordered into bomb shelters on Wednesday night.

"This is a new situation. The residents of Israel need to know that we are going into a period that would require resilience," Minister Issac Herzog said after the emergency cabinet meeting Prime Minister Ehud Olmert convened on Wednesday night in Tel Aviv in light of the events on the northern border.

According to Herzog, Israel is holding Lebanon responsible for the attack, which was carried out from its territory.

OC Northern Command Maj.-Gen. Udi Adam said the IDF was preparing for a widespread operation not only against Hizbullah but also against the Lebanese government. The IDF, The Jerusalem Post learned, has drawn up plans to bomb main infrastructure, including power stations in Lebanon.

"The IDF is responding with its full might by the air, the sea and the ground," Adam said. "We are also preparing for a massive operation to defend Israeli citizens and stop the terror."

 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2006 at 00:18

I found this interesting:

Mideast envoys have war of words in U.N. hallway

Israeli: 'You're paying the price'; Palestinian: 'Leave us alone'

 
Quote

UNITED NATIONS (CNN) -- The Palestinian and Israeli ambassadors to the United Nations engaged in an impromptu debate Wednesday in the hallway outside the Security Council.

Israeli Ambassador Dan Gillerman said sarcastically that Palestinians must be "in love" with the idea of Israeli occupation; Palestinian Ambassador Riyad Mansour responded, "I wish you'd leave us alone."

The exchange came amid heightened tensions and fighting in the region. (Watch the testy exchange caught on camera -- :57)

An Israeli airstrike hit the Palestinian Foreign Ministry in Gaza early Thursday, part of a campaign Israel says is aimed at recovering an Israeli soldier kidnapped June 25 and stopping militants from firing rockets into Israel. (Full story)

And Israeli artillery and airstrikes pounded Hezbollah installations in southern Lebanon on Wednesday after a cross-border raid that left three Israeli soldiers dead and two others captive. (Full story)

Despite the tense situation at the United Nations, both diplomats remained cordial, shaking hands at the end of their one-minute exchange.

"You are so in love with occupation that you, you cling to it even when we leave every single inch," Gillerman said.

In the middle of Gillerman's sentence, Mansour injected, "We hate occupation."

"You are not leaving us; I wish you'd leave us alone," Mansour said.

Gillerman told Mansour that the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza last year was "one of the most heart-wrenching acts by any Israeli leader."

"Why are the soldiers inside?" Mansour asked. "Leave us alone."

When Gillerman said Israel had left the Palestinians alone, Mansour disagreed.

But Gillerman responded: "Your own people, your government had two choices. Take care of its people or turn it into a terrorist. You chose the latter, and you're paying the price."

"No, that is not true," Mansour said.

"The problem is occupation," Mansour said. "Once occupation is completely out, then peace and freedom will prevail. Consider it seriously."

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2006 at 00:33
Has the US government even said aything at all on this damn war!?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2006 at 03:46
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Has the US government even said aything at all on this damn war!?


Yes. Condie Rice has been very vocal about it. Last thing I heard she said was 'What war?'
     
The US has quiety urged restraint on both sides, but thats about it really. Condie is tied up with bringing Iran back to the UNSC, and the rest of the Bush admin is in despair over North Korea; apperently the NK/China talks have broken down, and the SK/NK talks are about to break down.

What a great week it's been.

You would expect the US to be trying its hardest to broker peace in the ME. I can only conclude there is a strategic reason they're not doing so. I may be wrong, but I believe that the current Israeli action would have been in the planning for along time, and is nothing to do with kidnapped soldiers and home made rockets. I believe this may be the back door route to dealing with Iran and/or Syria, both of whom back Hezbollah. It would not take much to pull either nation into the conflict. Israel may be trying to create a scenario where an attack on Iran maybe justified. The US maybe taking a back seat, if this is the case, as another US led conflict in the ME would not go down well with US media or voters.

..and now Israel have imposed an air and sea blockade of Lebanon. All this for a few captured soildiers? I dont think so. This was not the approach taken in the past, when they negotiated the release of one hostage and the remains of three soldiers from Hezbollah, in return for the release of Arab prisoners. Why would Israel risk taking the entire region to the brink over three hostages, and some fairly inconseqeuntial attacks from home made rockets?

A bridge too far?...and an airport...

Edited by Blacksword - July 13 2006 at 05:26
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2006 at 10:22
I'm sorry Blacksword, Lebanon is responsible for this, just like witht he Palestinians, Hizbullah is a political party represented in their parliament.  They can't say, "it's Hizbullah, not us"
 
Fairly inconsequential rocket attacks, Blacksword?:
 
 
Israel doesn't have that martyr mentality so even two deaths are mourned.
 
I am really worried about this situation.  I didn't see Lebanon in this picture at all.
 
Well to answer my own question, looks like a real war, not just border flare-ups.  The ball is now in Syria's court, they may have to get involved for political reasons.
 
Blacksword, I don't think this was premeditated on Israel's part.  The Israeli Governments official policy was disengagement from the West Bank (90% withdrawal), that is what the PM campaigned on, withdrawal.  That plan is dead now because of the situation, and hes not happy about it.


Edited by NetsNJFan - July 13 2006 at 10:35
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2006 at 12:34
Things are looking very serious indeed. I'm not sure that it was premeditated, but it does seem rather overdramatic on Israel's part...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2006 at 12:47
 Yea since this thread was originally posted it has now officially escalated into a war. I cant wait to see what the U.S. does, now that we have our hands full alll over the world and our troops are spread too thin as it is. Anyway if we are going to back Israel as we have commited ourselves years ago, why are we now content to sit back and say "Israel has a right to defend itself" while we are over in Iraq starting a civil war?

Edited by dralan - July 13 2006 at 12:47
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