Question to you about Genesis !

LEAST FAVE GABRIEL: Tresspass

FAVE COLLINS: Seconds out...studio:'Wind and wuthering'

I still think Trespass is very underrated, probably dooesn't have peaks of creativity like Musical Box or Supper's Ready (White Mountain is one of the most beautiful songs ever wrote by Genesis, so maybe I'm wrong), but is by large the most progressive and well balanced album, there's not a single bad and or poppy song, all the material is strong even when not outstanding. Plus the fact that Peter's voice sounds better than ever. 

Nursery Cryme has high and low points, I can't understand why the poppy For Absent Friends is in the same album with The Musical Box or Fountain of Salmacis, the rest of the songs are in the same level as any one from Trespass. Foxtrot is an exception and that's why it's the best IMO, all the tracks are strong plus Can Utility and Supper's Ready which are among the best.

SEBTP has two flaws I Know What I Like and the worst song from the Gabriel era More Fool Me. To end Gabriel's era The Lamb, well that thing  is from another planet, doesn't even sound like normal Genesis, don't misunderstand me is incredibly good but it has a different format (Conceptual, short tracks and a couple of fillers) than any Genesis album.

So why is Trespass so underrated?

Many people think in names, some say Hackett didn't played but Anthony Phillips is almost as good as him and with a very similar approach to dark atmospheres, others believe it's weaker because Collins wasn't there, but for God's sake, during Gabriel's era Phil was only the drummer, with almnost no input in the creativity section, OK he was an outstanding drummer, but Mayhew wasn't bad either.

I'm sure that if Anthony Phillips wouldn't had to leave the band because of his stage terror, Hackett would have never joined and Genesis would have been almost as great as with him, probably better in the compositional part because Anthony had a great iinfluence in Genesis music and Steve only proved what a great song writer he was when he left the band, but surely  a bit  weaker in the performance.

So take a listen to Trespass without prejudices and you'll find it's a very strong album. 

Iván

ivan_2068 wrote:   I'm sure that if Anthony Phillips wouldn't had to leave the band because of his stage terror, Hackett would have never joined and Genesis would have been almost as great as with him, probably better in the compositional part because Anthony had a great iinfluence in Genesis music and Steve only proved what a great song writer he was when he left the band, but surely  a bit  weaker in the performance.   Iván

The main thing that always frustrates me about 70's Genesis is that Hackett was sooo badly underused, and the other guys never let him contribute in the writing department.  Out of the entire era with Hackett, I've only seen two tracks that give Hackett lead writing credits (After the Ordeal, and Horizons:  both of them are insturmentals)  the former of which Tony Banks didn't even wan't to include on SEbtP.  When Steve finally does get the chance, he is amazing, IMHO he had the very best sound from his guitar, a very hight pitch sounding almost like a synth at times (similar to Brian May from Queen). 

But the bottom line is that Genesis would have been much better if Steve Hackett would have taken a more prominint role in composing.

ivan_2068 wrote: The main thing that always frustrates me about 70's Genesis is that Hackett was sooo badly underused, and the other guys never let him contribute in the writing department.  Out of the entire era with Hackett, I've only seen two tracks that give Hackett lead writing credits (After the Ordeal, and Horizons:  both of them are insturmentals)  the former of which Tony Banks didn't even wan't to include on SEbtP.  When Steve finally does get the chance, he is amazing, IMHO he had the very best sound from his guitar, a very hight pitch sounding almost like a synth at times (similar to Brian May from Queen).  That's the main and only problem especially when Gabriel left, because Tony alone was not able to do all the Job, from the beginning to The Lamb, the compositional role was shared by Tony and Peter, so there was no real need for another songwritter, except during FGTTR and Trespass where Anthony Phillips had very much influence mostly for the close friendship between Peter, Ant and Tony. When Peter left Steve should have taken his role with Tony, but at that point Rutherford also wanted some more participation and it was a chaotic situation. Steve had proven in 1975 with Voyage of the Acolyte that he was able to help Tony, but the rest of the band didn't wanted, so he was leftaside. Steve has said that he took various projects to Genesis but Rutherford and Collins voted no, so he used this songs in his first albums. Iván

I've always been curious as to why Mike and Phil (and even Tony) pushed Steve aside.  His solo work was incredible, (I'd love to see what Please Don't Touch, Spectral Mornings and Defector would sound like with some of the group's input).  Was the reason for this becuase the other guys wanted the attention to themselves, or they just didn't like Steve's style?  I've noticed that the songs which Banks writes most of have very little noticealbe guitar in them.  So maybe the rest of the band didn't like a guitar sound.  I've heard that a big reason why Steve left the band was because he wrote the song 'Please Don't Touch' and Phil completely rejected it for Wind and Wuthering, so this was the last straw.

btw, I know that Mad Man Moon and the title track from A Trick of the Tail were written with Gabriel (for the SEbtP sessions).  I'm curious if there were ever any recordings of these maybe on the cutting room floor, that might come up some day (or even be around already) along with those Jackson tapes.   Any insight?

I was really edging away from the group at that point. I was getting tired of bringing ideas into the group which I felt they weren't going to do. If the ideas were more radical, they weren't necessarily going to do them. I felt that the band was heading towards an area that was becoming very safe.  http://www.worldofgenesis.com/SteveHackettInterview2001.htm

He was quite right.

ivan_2068 wrote: Fearless wrote:   I've heard that a big reason why Steve left the band was because he wrote the song 'Please Don't Touch' and Phil completely rejected it for Wind and Wuthering, so this was the last straw. Not only that Fearless, the relation Steve Hackett - Genesis was not good after A Trick, and the rest of the band is obvious in that. If you have the In Concert DVD (A 1 hour film of the 4 men Genesis + Bruford) you can notice that Bill and Steve are practically ignored by the camera, in the case of Phil I understand because Phil still played a lot of drums and we know his ego is huge but in the case of Steve there was no reason at all. It was almost as three close friends and two strangers Steve said that he took a lot of stuff to the band and they sistematically rejected everything he took, in the case of Please Don't Touch it almost reached W&W but Tony insisted that it had to be replaced for Wot Gorilla? but that wasn't the only song as Steve said in a 2001 interview: I was really edging away from the group at that point. I was getting tired of bringing ideas into the group which I felt they weren't going to do. If the ideas were more radical, they weren't necessarily going to do them. I felt that the band was heading towards an area that was becoming very safe.  http://www.worldofgenesis.com/SteveHackettInterview2001.htm   So Steve got tired and one day he told Tony OK man I'm out. Iván

That's a very interesting interview.  Thanks a lot for the info, Ivan.

Worst Gabriel era album (not counting FGTR)...Nursery Cryme - I know this get's a lot of praise from Genesis fans, but in my opinion the album was too uneven after the loss of their primary songwriter, Ant Phillips.  A transitional album, before Gabriel and Banks truly found their voice,  that had some great songs but was just not as consistently good as their earlier masterpiece Trespass, and their later gems. 

Favorite Collins era album...A Trick of the Tail.  In my opinion, ATTOT is a much better album than NC.  Some of the songs on NC are better than anything on ATTOT, but Trick is much more consistent and holds the listener from beginning to end.

herbie53 wrote: Back to the original question: Weakest Gabriel album: TRESPASS. Sometimes I think that Lamb Lies isn't so great like everybody talks... The best Collins album: WIND AND WUTHERING. ATOTT is almost so good like... And W&W is much better than Trespass and Lamb Lies...

I agree totally & The Lamb is so hyped up by fans sheer devotion to the band that it makes them blinkered. The Lamb is not a great album!!!

Ricochet wrote: Not greater that Foxtrot or Trespass,but it is a very good album.

At least the first side is!!!