Progressive rock: a man's genre?

Catcher10 wrote: Because, to use your words, prog music is abrasive and agressive, the wonderful lyrics can get ignored in a lot of cases. But to us men, since we enjoy the music, we can listen to the lyrics and pull out the meanings quite easily.   So why are their no women music reviewers, reviewing prog rock albums?

Outside prog circles, nobody considers prog, and especially classic prog, 'abrasive' and 'aggressive', they just dub it polite and pretentious, be they men or women.  I have seen women attend extreme metal concerts so I don't think the abrasiveness has anything to do with it. I don't know if you grew up in a family that listens to prog, because otherwise you'd be used to the idea that only a small minority likes prog, whether it's men or women and most people don't warm up to it.   Has nothing to do with 'inherent differences' between men and women. To reiterate my earlier point, 'we' assume that 'they' think differently, don't like this or can't do that and hence don't canonize female artists on merit the way we ought to, which reinforces the impression of it being a man's genre. But there are a lot of women who listen to rock-related music and lot of women making or performing it too. 

Lozlan wrote: As for women reading or listening to men's music/lit...progressive rock is both an intensely innovative and intensely self-indulgent musical genre. This self-indulgence is the result of privilege working behind the scenes to determine artistic output. On the surface we can claim (correctly, too) that prog is striving to elevate popular music to the level of the symphonic and jazz masters; but I ask you, how many of those composers were women? For centuries it was impossible for female composers to achieve any shade of recognition, with the result that classical music is explicitly a man's world. This actually serves as another fantastic example of false correlation: there are no famous female composers, so women must not compose classical music. I can't count on both hands and both feet the number of times I've heard classically trained male musicians comment on women's obvious compositional deficiency, based solely on their under-representation amid the company of Bach, Brahms, and Mendelssohn.  Oppressed peoples always, ALWAYS pick up on expressions of privilege, especially in art; as Audre Lorde stated, it is impossible to deconstruct the master's house with the master's tools. Although I don't universally agree with this supposition, it does go far in signifying that the master's tools are easily identifiable to those straining for freedom or equality.

Is or was?  The orchestra in my city has more female musicians than male, if not an equal number of. And that seems to be the growing trend worldwide, so are we assailing past crimes here?  And I cannot see the correlation between privilege and oppression in prog rock, seems to be as tenuous as between ice cream and murder.  The privilege if any in prog rock was self proclaimed in any case. The critics never bestowed it the status of snob music or recognized its efforts in progressing popular music, so no doors had to be knocked at for entry.  I had suggested earlier that maybe women are not so hung up on the idea of a band or group as men, so women listeners are more evenly spread across pop, rock, jazz etc than men (and since prog rock is essentially a rock genre, it would account for fewer women in prog rock too).  But I guess people are more interested in flogging the same old stereotypes than considering an idea which may have some merit, at any rate more merit than said stereotypes.

Alitare wrote: Yeah, and Courtney Love was in a band. What difference does it make?

I don't know what your point is, another misguided generalization like Twilight? If you asked Cobain fanboys, they'd say it made a  hell of a lot of a difference.

The Dark Elf wrote: Catcher10 wrote: The topic is about PROGRESSIVE ROCK music...not jazz or opera. And to my point, opera is very emotional performances that pull at your heart.....I would expect women to enjoy opera rather than a prog rock concert. Jazz is lively and upbeat, you can dance to it even.....If you know my posts, you would know my wife is from New Orleans, jazz is in her blood, we've seen plenty of jazz artists in the French Quarter.   Because, to use your words, prog music is abrasive and agressive, the wonderful lyrics can get ignored in a lot of cases. But to us men, since we enjoy the music, we can listen to the lyrics and pull out the meanings quite easily.   So why are their no women music reviewers, reviewing prog rock albums?   I don't really listen to abrasive and aggressive prog music -- which bands are those precisely? My wife, like myself, enjoys a wide range of music. Our tastes differ in that she listens to classical music more often than I do, but I took her to a Jethro Tull concert when we were dating and she loved it. When Ian Anderson did a solo tour, she surprised me with tickets. She also bought a copy of the Rupi's Dance CD which she won't let me take out of her car.   All that being said, I thnk this whole patriarchal music business is a load of crap. We have plenty of Sandy Denny/Fairport and Annie Haslam/Renaissance CDs, but if she's in a rock mood, my wife will grab a Yes, Tull or Moody Blues CD. Or not, sometimes she listens to blues (all old black guys). She listens to whatever the hell she wants, just like I do. The only female singer I think she favors is Alison Kraus (who we saw with Robert Plant - great show by the way). She likes well composed, well sung and played music -- and I really don't think she gives a rat's hairy patoot what gender the musicians are, or whether she should feel inadequate because of some perceived male dominated music genre. The whole thought process is inane and misguided to say the least.   Wait a moment, she just home from work...   Yeah, so I asked her what she was listening to on her iPod. She answered Great Big Sea, The Waterboys and The Young Dubliners.   I asked her if she felt oppressed listening to male dominated Gaelic rock.   She answered, "Whatever."

Alitare wrote: Since when do I sincerely make generalizations? Do you think I think every female novel is like Twilight? You think I think every woman or man is the same? You don't know very much about how much I know about psychology, sociology, culture, and milkshakes.

I do not know you and am not obliged to since this is an internet forum, so I can only respond to what you post.  Comparing Anne Rice to George Orwell, Carole King to Ian Anderson and now bringing up Courtney Love all sound like generalizations. If you did not intend to make generalizations, I don't know what you hoped to convey with it.

rogerthat wrote: Alitare wrote: Since when do I sincerely make generalizations? Do you think I think every female novel is like Twilight? You think I think every woman or man is the same? You don't know very much about how much I know about psychology, sociology, culture, and milkshakes.  I do not know you and am not obliged to since this is an internet forum, so I can only respond to what you post.  Comparing Anne Rice to George Orwell, Carole King to Ian Anderson and now bringing up Courtney Love all sound like generalizations. If you did not intend to make generalizations, I don't know what you hoped to convey with it.

^ True that its not exclusively a "man's genre". Like Logan states here:

You should have heard the complaints I heard guys on my floor say while passing my room at school...most of them revolved around the stuff I listened to "not being music."  

SaltyJon wrote: You should have heard the complaints I heard guys on my floor say while passing my room at school...most of them revolved around the stuff I listened to "not being music."

Catcher10 wrote: rogerthat wrote: Catcher10 wrote: Because, to use your words, prog music is abrasive and agressive, the wonderful lyrics can get ignored in a lot of cases. But to us men, since we enjoy the music, we can listen to the lyrics and pull out the meanings quite easily.   So why are their no women music reviewers, reviewing prog rock albums? Outside prog circles, nobody considers prog, and especially classic prog, 'abrasive' and 'aggressive', they just dub it polite and pretentious, be they men or women.  I have seen women attend extreme metal concerts so I don't think the abrasiveness has anything to do with it. I don't know if you grew up in a family that listens to prog, because otherwise you'd be used to the idea that only a small minority likes prog, whether it's men or women and most people don't warm up to it.   Has nothing to do with 'inherent differences' between men and women. To reiterate my earlier point, 'we' assume that 'they' think differently, don't like this or can't do that and hence don't canonize female artists on merit the way we ought to, which reinforces the impression of it being a man's genre. But there are a lot of women who listen to rock-related music and lot of women making or performing it too.    Please take that question to CPicard......I did not use those words.....You all are totally confused on this thread. I grew up listening to all types of music and still do. My wife and I have seen Iron Maiden 3x, Scorpions 2x, Judas Priest, Earth Wind & Fire 3x as well as Kenny G who she likes.......So her tastes vary quite much. The question is, is Prog Rock-a man's genre? I gave reasons why I think it is and why in general more women do not listen to prog.   Cheers!

Hmmm...so your wife denigrates progressive music  but enjoys The Scorpions? Ummm...pardon my laughing out loud about her (and your) misguided attempts at foisting this entire "patriarchal music" hogwash on the rest of us...