Personally, I think it has to do with the female mind often finding more of an emotional connection with more personal, nice sounding music. When I asked my mother why she hates Genesis so much, she said it sounded dissonant and made her feel anxious.

Sorry if that sounds sexist, because I'm really not at all. What are your thoughts?

My wife has said that the music I listen to goes on too long, is dull, and often sounds like soundtrack music, which would be fine if it was background music ina  film, but not to listen to.  I do like pop music that she likes, such as Abba (it's her favourite band, but I still know Abba better than her).  The only ones I can think of that she has liked in PA that I've played for her are Mellow Candle, Supertramp, and Alan Parsons Project (plus various songs by various artists such as as some PFM).

A complaint I've heard from various females is that the music I listen to is weird and not melodic.  I get the same weird complaint about music from males, but they don't complain about it not being melodic.  I don't know anyone in real life who shares my Prog Archives-type tastes in music  (some of it, sure, like King Crimson, but not the more avant-oriented music).

I definitely think that prog rock (and artsy fartsy music in general) is more related toward the male mentality. Sure, prog/art rock had a few very notable females, like Annie Haslan or Kate Bush, but take the leading forces behind the genre: Fripp, the entire bands of Pink Floyd, Yes, Genesis, Rush, Jethro Tull, VDGG, Gentle Giant, Camel, etc. etc. They were male-fronted, male-written songs and bands. In 1971 most guys had a choice between Aqualung and Carole King's Tapestry. Which do you think most adolescent males would rather listen to? Locomotive Breath or So Far Away?

Music and the arts in general are very much male-oriented. What are most female writers noted for? Vampire love stories or well-to-do british women looking for a husband. Anne Rice blah blah blah. Where's the female 1984, the female Brave New World? It's not that women are less artistic (but in my experience, most women seem more interested in painting/photography than any other art, but that's nothing more than an assessment of my locale, not a generalization), it's not that women are less artistic. They just spent so long being dominated by men in nearly every way that they didn't have a chance to grow into it. So really, if women would rather hear Justin Bieber over Jethro Tull, it's men's fault for being so damn vile. That, and most girls don't care about space operas and WWII battles and such. I don't either, but hey!

My point is that of course prog is man-oriented and male-dominated. Now that I've said that, let me go ahead and say that starting from the 1930's and up, from Billie Holiday to Joan Baez and Carole King and Kate Bush and Cocteau Twins and Joni Mitchell and Janis Joplin and all that, some women have made some flabbergastingly brilliant music to my ears. 

Are you saying working a full time job and helping raise a kid gives more free time than housework? 

Unlike previous attempts at this topic, lets see if we can keep it devoid of sexist remarks and jokes.

 

That takes the fun out of it. Can't we find a logical solution? What's the point of debating factual evidence? Either more guys like prog than girls or more girls like prog than guys. Why? Well, it's a trillion reasons. We can speculate all we want, but until we find out through cold, hard, psychological study and fact, this will end up being dick joke central.

Which brings me to my thesis statement: What did the penis say to the mailman? Hey, pal, how can you get aHEAD around here?

Get it? He's living in a residential area where he can send and receive postage! Har har!

So yes, why do more men like Genesis than women? Why do more men prefer 1984 over Interview with a Vampire? Who is a better writer, Anne Rice or George Orwell? Who the better songwriter, Tom Waits or Carole King? It's an opinion, there. It'll be sociological, genetic, psychological, circumstantial, emotional, and a big chain. Its a big chain, it's a grim and whip dim ganglyroo. Vim and bandersnatch for you, yon vorpal sword with golden hue, can cut with wring wrought snapping, true, and slice the bandersnatch in two. Hello my honey, hell my darlin', hello my ragtime gal!

Nobody's expecting a definitive answer with universal agreement to come out of a thread like this. I was just hoping for some interesting opinions.

Women tend to like Pink Floyd far more than other prog rock for some reason. I've always felt that Floyd doesn't fit in perfectly with the whole "prog rock" thing. Their music has pretty simple structure, and is driven mainly by emotion

Hey, not all of us have been here since 2008

It's helpful.

I could've assumed you weren't referring to the historical era. Also I'm pretty sure that Annie didn't actually write any of the music

Face it, that post was just an excuse to link to the search page like that

There will be fewer women artists of great renown than men for some more time in most fields of art simply because 'we' let them do 'our' stuff much later and they've had to catch up with us. For all that, however, if you are even reasonably well informed, you should find female musicians, writers etc of undeniable talent.  The bitter truth is that since majority of listeners are also men, they are not interested in what a woman has to say and won't give credit where it's due and then go on pretending it's a man's world. Sure thing!     

And in the 70s, you also had Joan Baez  or Joni Mitchell.  Since I have not been initiated to Dagmar Krause, I won't comment on her.  And as for dissonance or, essentially, aesthetic ugliness, what about Diamanda Galas? I grant that most people would not have had access to an artist like Diamanda Galas but that certainly doesn't wash with Joan Baez or Joni Mitchell.  There is plainly latent bias against women in rock music. I have often seen fans second guess each and every of their actions and intentions in ways they never would with men - as if a woman cannot possibly be interested in music even if she devotes a liftetime to it. I don't think there's anything outrageous about this. Given the text of many a rock lyric, tongue in cheek though it may be, there is bound to be benign sexism in rock.

For the record, I prefer So Far Away to Locomotive Breath, but prefer Aqualung as a whole over Tapestry as a whole. I emotionally concur with a lot you have to say, Rogerthat.

I do too, it was just not a like-and-like comparison, that was my point.  How about choosing between Barbara Dennerlein and Joey De Francesco? So much tougher.  And if you asked the Baldies, they would probably say it's not even tough, it's Barbara all the way.

 

 

I have a female friend who likes some prog metal as well. 

But to answer the question I really don't know. However, I will say that even in other genres like electronica or indie music there are generally far more males who are really into the music than females. But this could be simply coincidence or perhaps because of the way that females are socialized.

 

Yes, we wouldn't want the truth interfering with political correctness.

Mentally disabled workers complete their tasks with less perceived efficiency, in general. This is terribly offensive, I'd wager. I wonder if we have any mentally disabled proggers in the vicinity. 

I keep coming back to this site every half a year or so, and forgetting how much I suck at following rules, making friends, and not being an abrasively venomous cockface. 

For example:

Person 1 - Woohoo, summer's here!

Person 2 - How's the new [insert movie here], Charles?

Person 1 - Excellent! Did you ever [insert progressing hobby here]. Rudolph?

Alitare - Ground control to Major Tom: Rush sucks a lot.

Person 1 - Golf damned TROLL!

Person 3 - lulwut?

Easy Livin' - BANHAMMER

Doo-doo-doo-doo  doo-doo-doo-doo. You just got a slingshot.

On the other hand, Opeth, Porcupine Tree and Freak Kitchen have performed in India. Jethro Tull came twice to India (missed them on BOTH occasions ).  Several fusioners have performed every now and then in India, notably the incredible Shakti.  Perhaps, part of the problem is critics, be they white males or whomsoever, are not interested in spreading knowledge of prog to anywhere, be it Europe or Asia.  But you folks in Europe (your location says London?) and USA can get in touch with people who caught prog in the 70s or at least who follow contemporary prog rock bands and get to know of the music.  But you will never see Red album or SEBTP mentioned as rock essentials in a place like India.  To expect all music lovers to have the curiosity to read on the internet and find out is unrealistic. This sort of relates to what I had brought up earlier. Are guys at all interested in reaching out outside their coveted circle?  Without such an effort, obviously the profile of fans of a particular genre may get homogeneous.  But there's nothing in the music itself that would alienate those who are not white males as such.  I know people who listen to prog and I have even picked up Canterbury classics like Rotter's Club in stores but it's bound to be a minority because there's no awareness and critics would rather you listen to November Rain all over again rather than Firth of the fifth.  

On the other hand, Opeth, Porcupine Tree and Freak Kitchen have performed in India. Jethro Tull came twice to India (missed them on BOTH occasions ).  Several fusioners have performed every now and then in India, notably the incredible Shakti.  Perhaps, part of the problem is critics, be they white males or whomsoever, are not interested in spreading knowledge of prog to anywhere, be it Europe or Asia.  But you folks in Europe (your location says London?) and USA can get in touch with people who caught prog in the 70s or at least who follow contemporary prog rock bands and get to know of the music.  But you will never see Red album or SEBTP mentioned as rock essentials in a place like India.  To expect all music lovers to have the curiosity to read on the internet and find out is unrealistic. This sort of relates to what I had brought up earlier. Are guys at all interested in reaching out outside their coveted circle?  Without such an effort, obviously the profile of fans of a particular genre may get homogeneous.  But there's nothing in the music itself that would alienate those who are not white males as such.  I know people who listen to prog and I have even picked up Canterbury classics like Rotter's Club in stores but it's bound to be a minority because there's no awareness and critics would rather you listen to November Rain all over again rather than Firth of the fifth.  

Nothing really, I am just attributing proper cause to this phenomenon.  Prog has a smaller following because the critics sell it short, as simple.  People will listen to anything that's drilled into their head as essential a thousand times over. This does not mean all such things necessarily constitute bad music but most listeners would rather the music walk up to their speakers than they find out about the music and get around to it.  And I am not really finding fault with that either because it's just human tendency and pretty normal. I am much more passive when it comes to seeking out great cinema even though I quite enjoy a film made with serious intent and executed with thoughtfulness and am not necessarily a pop cinema buff. I can devote the little bit of time that work leaves aside for me to the one art form of music but there's no room left for similar application with cinema.

I think it was Alitare who compared the Twilight writer to Orwell, which is total bollocks of course.  Jane Austen is very well regarded in literary circles, though I completely abhor that horrible book Sense and Sensibility!   I agree with you that music or literature doesn't have to deal with only feminist concerns to be perceived as empathetic to or of interest to women audiences.  I would say to expect THAT is sexist.  Why shouldn't a woman be interested in Animal Farm? It's about the world, not 'mankind' to the exclusion of women.  I also do know girls who like dystopian writing, be it this one or Brave New World, so it's not true that dystopia inherently doesn't appeal to women.  It's just that MOST guys would rather watch dumb Arnold Schwarznegger films than read and most girls would rather read Mills and Boon and the minority that visits progarchives.com stereotypes the "other" group by their impression of the majority (believing foolishly that majority of men would also be interested in reading dystopian novels).  

It's a well-known fact that women were oppressed for ages. Obviously the arts were male-dominated for quite a long time. This served a cultural and survivalist purpose. Racism, too, served a survivalist purpose. Ages past, when one similar group of individuals came about to killing other, dissimilar groups of individuals, they tended to have differing skin colors. Racism, then, was a natural side-effect of geographical conquest. Is it necessary for survival, now? In some cases, perhaps, but as we can see from the rampant growth in toleration in the major developed countries of the world, this primal racial need is being dissipated by the world at large. 

So of course women had their share of oppression. So of course they're probably more inclined to listen to different types of music. Of course there are women who love progressive rock, just like there are women who like to work at law firms, just like there are women who like to vote, just like there are women who like to bake apple pies and give blowjobs. Soooooooooooooooooooooooo, what was your point? 

 

Its all about patience and just listening to the music.....for some reason women have a difficult time doing both with music. And maybe they are better at it than men are, maybe they multi-task better, since men always state...."sitting down and listening to my music...". I don't know any woman that just sits and listens to music, be it Genesis or Celine Dion.

 

Once I explained to my wife the meaning behind The Musical Box she was more interested in hearing the lyrics along with the music. Or even explaining all the parts to SDOIT .....it becomes more listenable to her and she can get it and eventually understand it.

In general when it comes to prog, just like heavy metal, it is difficult for women to get past some of the harshness, loudness (noise) of our music. I bet if you just give them the lyrics, it would spark more of an interest than simply pushing PLAY and tell them......"check this out honey!!!" Its like a 5yr old, the attention span will get them to about 1:45 into a song. I am not degrading either, its just fact, when it comes to music men just have the longer attention span. And some of it is fantasy for us, we want to be that band playing on stage and creating that music.....women could careless about that, I don't think there are many women who actually state "I want to be Celine, Norah Jones, Aretha, Lady Gaga or Kate Bush....."

 

For my wife what gets her interested in my music is all the stuff behind the scenes sometimes.......Neil Peart's losses, Portnoy's 12 part AA suite, Neal Morse's daughters birth defect. Issues that tug at your heart and deeper feelings, rather than trying to decipher Magma's Kobaia and their interacting with people from Earth....yikes!

 

The topic is about PROGRESSIVE ROCK music...not jazz or opera. And to my point, opera is very emotional performances that pull at your heart.....I would expect women to enjoy opera rather than a prog rock concert. Jazz is lively and upbeat, you can dance to it even.....If you know my posts, you would know my wife is from New Orleans, jazz is in her blood, we've seen plenty of jazz artists in the French Quarter.

 

Because, to use your words, prog music is abrasive and agressive, the wonderful lyrics can get ignored in a lot of cases. But to us men, since we enjoy the music, we can listen to the lyrics and pull out the meanings quite easily.

 

So why are their no women music reviewers, reviewing prog rock albums?

Catcher10 wrote: The topic is about PROGRESSIVE ROCK music...not jazz or opera. And to my point, opera is very emotional performances that pull at your heart.....I would expect women to enjoy opera rather than a prog rock concert. Jazz is lively and upbeat, you can dance to it even.....If you know my posts, you would know my wife is from New Orleans, jazz is in her blood, we've seen plenty of jazz artists in the French Quarter.   Because, to use your words, prog music is abrasive and agressive, the wonderful lyrics can get ignored in a lot of cases. But to us men, since we enjoy the music, we can listen to the lyrics and pull out the meanings quite easily.   So why are their no women music reviewers, reviewing prog rock albums?

-------------
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...

Yeah, generalizations make an ass outta you and me. Wait... assumptions make gumptions with gumbo and tea.

No, that ain't right. Typifications make criminal stations. HORSEsh*t!

Stereotyping is incessant griping. Naggerjuices! I can't seem to get this right.

One more time: Ignorance is fish. There we have it - if you're ignorant then you smell like big mouthed bass. I accomplished something today.

That's right, I sat through every bloody minute of West Side Story. Christ - a woman must've written that Romeo and Juliet inspired cheese-pudding. I feel titties, such big titties, and I rubbed them from ceiling to wall, and I pity any boy who hasn't got big balls. LALALALALALALALALALA what boner, where?!

Yeah, and Courtney Love was in a band. What difference does it make?

 

Ummm....what were we talking about again?

 

Oh yeah, abrasive, like scabby. Like...Courtney.

Since when do I sincerely make generalizations? Do you think I think every female novel is like Twilight? You think I think every woman or man is the same? You don't know very much about how much I know about psychology, sociology, culture, and milkshakes. 

 

I have no idea who those "abrasive and agressive" bands might be....those are the words of CPicard...ask him. I also do not listen to this type of music.

 

Please take that question to CPicard......I did not use those words.....You all are totally confused on this thread. I grew up listening to all types of music and still do. My wife and I have seen Iron Maiden 3x, Scorpions 2x, Judas Priest, Earth Wind & Fire 3x as well as Kenny G who she likes.......So her tastes vary quite much.

The question is, is Prog Rock-a man's genre?

I gave reasons why I think it is and why in general more women do not listen to prog.

 

Cheers!

Maybe I'm being facetious. 

 

Logan wrote: My mother (like my father when he was alive, by he was very vocal in his disdain for rock and pop music) only listens to classical music by choice (she does quite like some jazz too).  I played her some Art Zoyd from Generations Sans Futur whilst she was in my car, and she said it was far too dissonant for her.  That said, she did enjoy a fair amount of U Totem's debut (I avoided some parts) and she did like Aranis. My wife has said that the music I listen to goes on too long, is dull, and often sounds like soundtrack music, which would be fine if it was background music ina  film, but not to listen to.  I do like pop music that she likes, such as Abba (it's her favourite band, but I still know Abba better than her).  The only ones I can think of that she has liked in PA that I've played for her are Mellow Candle, Supertramp, and Alan Parsons Project (plus various songs by various artists such as as some PFM). A complaint I've heard from various females is that the music I listen to is weird and not melodic.  I get the same weird complaint about music from males, but they don't complain about it not being melodic.  I don't know anyone in real life who shares my Prog Archives-type tastes in music  (some of it, sure, like King Crimson, but not the more avant-oriented music).

 

he too points out some reasons why women may not enjoy/understand progressive rock as much as men do, I like his post and was on the same lines as my thinking.

 

Prog rock takes time and patience.....My wife likes Rush and Genesis, but cannot sit on the sofa and listen to all of Hemispheres, Xanadu or Supper's Ready....and never listen to all 4 sides of The Lamb Lies Down.

 

I could care less what other men think of what I listen to, if they don't understand, its their problem........But keeping my wife happy is my problem.

 

 

Was she voicing her indignance at the band while they were on stage? Did she carry a protest sign? What a joke.

In short, there will be some inherent differences between men and women because, well, they can and we can't  but because society was male dominated these differences were for a long time projected as proof of women's inferiority to men, which is needless to say a sexist stance. 

I want a blowjob.

Raff's blog wrote: Before I wrap up this very long and detailed review, I would like to acknowledge the wealth of female musical talent seen on stage over the weekend. The ladies are really making headway into the progressive world, ad this is also borne out by the increasing number of women in the audience. Next time the old, worn out cliché of “girls don’t listen to prog” comes up, the facts will prove it wrong.

( http://progmistress.wordpress.com/2011/05/26/live-review-rosfest-2011-prog-is-a-battlefield/" rel="nofollow - http://progmistress.wordpress.com/2011/05/26/live-review-rosfest-2011-prog-is-a-battlefield/ )

(I hope she doesn't mind me posting this on her behalf, it just seemed relevant to the conversation)

Poke away. I'm not here to prove a point. I'm not here to be right, either. This doesn't seem to be a right or wrong situation. Either women are genetically predisposed to behaviors that differ from men, or they aren't. It's not a matter of opinion. The existence of the sun doesn't change if you start or stop believing in it - all it changes is your possible reaction to it.

This may very well be the greatest post to grace the ProgArchives.

 

Wait...It took you 3 years and over 4700 posts to figure out that you wasted and immense amount of time here better spent posting inanities on some other forum better suited to your stunning intellect and room-crowding ego? That says more about your utter fatuousness than anything else. Rather than insulting everyone and the kitchen sink, take a long look in the mirror, and then hit yourself upside the head with a baseball bat -- hard enough to either give you some common sense or to put yourself in a coma. Either would be fine.

 

Having frequented many forums since the stone age of the Internet, I always find it amusing when a poster feels it necessary to make a "grand exit" . As if anyone cares. Just leave -- and shut the front door.

 

And that's all I want to say. Thank you.

 

 

You know he was trolling right?

 

And room-crowding ego... Who else has that...?

 

I am uninterested in whether or not he was playing a game. If he was in fact trolling, then I suppose one should never take his posts seriously.

 

As far as "room-crowding egos", mine might fit snuggly through a door, but I won't knock the chip dip off a table on the far side of the room.