What genre is prog's foe ? |
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Soul Dreamer
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 17 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 997 |
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hahaha maybe we just have a lot in common in taste of music.... |
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 12 2008 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 5898 |
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Yeah, progressive rock just has "scenes", metal and punk have well-defined subcultural identities associated with those scenes, but in both cases the scenes still come before the fashion and attitude of which they're an outgrowth. I've also noticed that progressive rock fans welcome mainstream acceptance whereas in metal, punk and probably also goth rock circles there's a tendency to see mainstream crossover success as pearls before swine. Edited by Toaster Mantis - November 22 2009 at 02:58 |
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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JD
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 07 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18446 |
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Admittedly I'm not familiar with all the Stranglers recordings. I base my opinion on "Gospel According to MIB", Feline and Norfolk Coast, which I have. I was aggressively a prog snob in the eighties. In my early 20's and only wanting to fill my head with "challenging" music. I was more likely to listen to Frank Zappa or Harry Partch than any "80's" bands. Only in the last 15 years have I been going back and filling in the blanks trying to give most of what i previously ignored at least one listen. I'll happily concede the point. |
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ExittheLemming
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Interesting summary certainly. I don't think you really believe that mainstream success for either a punk or prog band would be viewed by either 'scene' as pearls before swine. Even a casual glance through the Collins Genesis, Asia or Buggles Yes threads over the years would be sufficient to convince anyone that what flows unopposed into the mainstream is viewed with contempt by the hard-liners as a very diluted or polluted version of the genre ? (I'm not defending the anti-populist brigade here BTW) Do you really mean those bands that don't pander to being radio-friendly but are still mainstream successful ? (erm...I can't think of any proggers that fit the bill, apart from say Floyd ?) |
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synthguy
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Wearing feelings on our faces when our faces took a rest...
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 12 2008 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 5898 |
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Not for progressive rock at least, however in metal there's quite a bit of distrust towards not only bands that deliberately go for mainstream crossover success but towards when more "authentic" bands get popular outside the metal subculture. The antipathy isn't towards the artists but fans in question who don't have enough loyalty/familiarity with the subculture and are hence perceived at not appreciating metal for the right reasons. This thread on a metal forum would be a very good example of what I'm talking about. I am very certain there's similar concerns in the punk subculture even though I don't have first-hand experience of it like I have with metal. As for my opinion, on one hand I can definitely understand where such concerns are coming from but on the other hand I also get the impression that even within subcultures it's usually very few of their actual members who actually live up to whatever high-falutin' ideals the movements in question have. It's pretty much an universal constant, has always been so and applies to all of 'em from Goths to neo-beatniks. Alternately depressing or hilarious that it's still so 41 years after Frank Zappa commenced castigating the hippies for his... (hell, it goes beyond subcultures to much looser-defined "fan communities", see a certain Prog Blog of mine) Edited by Toaster Mantis - November 23 2009 at 15:04 |
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Dean
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From the goth subculture there is a degree of pride involved when one of their faithful gains some popular appeal - Goth itself came out of a popular genres of music (New Romantic & Post Punk) and at it's peak had a measure mainstream success - most modern Goth bands pine for those halcyon days. Any subculture suspicion is reserved for outsiders who attempt popularity by hijacking the genre, eg Marylin Manson or by people attracted to the image but not the music - but even they are eventually accepted by the subculture.
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What?
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10652 |
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This is an interesting conversation, I was thinking of various subcultures I was familiar with over the years and bands that recieved scorn from those subcultures:
late 80s California hardcore - Green Day mid-70s funk - KC and the Sunshine Band late 80s hip-hop - Vanilla Ice, MC Hammer mid 70s prog - Kansas, ELO. Rush, Alan Parsons, even Pink Floyd for some mid 90s electronic - Moby early 80s west coast punk - X (first west coast punk band to sign to a major label, a major sin) 60s folk - Dylan late 60s jazz - Miles late 60s blues/rock - Led Zep, Grand Funk Railroad Edited by Easy Money - November 22 2009 at 14:41 |
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Logan
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This was, I think, an interesting topic which I saw being looked at in the Active Users list (I like that list for seeing old topics I had forgotten about or never seen). I still think that Prog is commonly the hybridization of genres and so due to its incorporative qualities other enemies are not the enemy to Prog, but instead like with the Borg, to be assimilated (which if drawing out that analogy would make a Prog an enemy to the genres, but I don’t think the genres care). I also think that Prog as a genre can be the enemy of progressive rock, as once we accept Prog as a genre we can start imposing limits on it which limits how far rock can progress from canonical expectations and thereby Prog may not be a truly progressive genre in the sense of always changing, moving forward, adapting and being an open world. Gorp, which is my term for backwards Prog (regressive rock) could also be seen as the enemy if it were an accepted genre. Retro Rock is a common label, but actually I think you can be both retro and progressive. I think one can look to and borrow from the past while also moving towards the future, and in fact I think that is important. Prog to my mind tends to be more innovative than originative.
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Grumpyprogfan
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Never thought music was a competition. There is no foe in any musical genre.
Never knew tear-jerkers was a musical genre. Edited by Grumpyprogfan - March 17 2022 at 09:45 |
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Psychedelic Paul
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I chose Punk even before I saw the options. Punk Rock lasted all of two years but Prog Rock lives on forever.
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Grumpyprogfan
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Psychedelic Paul
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Punk Rock only lasted about two years in England before it fizzled out like a damp squib. Never mind the *******, Johnny Rotten of the Sex Pistols is now reduced to selling Country Life butter to scrape a living. |
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Sean Trane
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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someone_else
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It is, at least in the Netherlands, where the OP comes from. We knew it as smartlap, named after a sheet with the lyrics that was displayed to give the audience a chance to sing a long. Nowadays the term levenslied (song of life) is more often used, referencing to simple songs that appeal to primitive feelings, held in esteem mostly by people with a lower intellectual level. It is not hard to understand why this genre was added to the list.
Edited by someone_else - March 17 2022 at 15:07 |
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siLLy puPPy
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JD
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^Perfect. I was listening to Goody Two Shoes today. |
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Hrychu
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EDM?
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“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15261 |
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^ ha! i listened to that after this one. Adam Ant or & The Ants had a very unique sound. Love that horn section!
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Heart of the Matter
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Rap. It's more personal dislike than anything what makes me vote this way, I confess. And proggers can be also prone to tears every once in a while.
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