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Topic ClosedDrugs & Music
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Poll Question: Drugs: Important in 60s and 70s music or not?
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KingCrimson250 View Drop Down
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Points: 573 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2009 at 00:09
Originally posted by boo boo boo boo wrote:

 
Psychedelic drugs are not addictive, not even on a mental level.. If someone abuses those drugs and gets really excessive with them, then that's a personal choice that could have easly been avoided. A lot of musicians used LCD and they were just fine as long as they used it in moderation.
 
As for pot, you pretty much can't abuse pot at all.


I don't think you can say that psychadelic drugs are not addictive on a mental level because when you get to that basis, that sort of psychological addiction, it's got almost nothing to do with the drug itself and everything to do with the person. If a guy feels, for example, that he can't fit in unless he smokes pot, or that acid is the only way he can escape the mundanity of his everyday life, then it's quite possible that he'll develop a psychological dependency and become mentally addicted.
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Anderson III View Drop Down
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Points: 708 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2009 at 03:18
Originally posted by boo boo boo boo wrote:

Drugs are not gonna turn a talentless hack into Mozart. But they can help spark one's creativity, as long as there's some creativity to begin with.
 
It depends on the drug. LSD, Cannabis and other psychedelis and quasi-psychedelics are drugs that can open up a persons senses, open up a part of your subconscious.  Drugs like that have been very helpful. Espeically for The Beatles, Hendrix, Pink Floyd, The Doors, Grateful Dead and Flaming Lips to name a few.
 
But stimulants, like coke and herion. All they do is give you energy, they can't spark your creativity. They might enhance a musicians performance maybe.
 
Granted David Bowie put out some brilliant stuff when he was doing enough coke to kill a small horse. Low is a classic album. But he could have made that album if he was clean.
 
I don't think The Beatles could have made Sgt Peppers without the acid.


Setting the record straight on some of this information...

Heroin is not a stimulant, but an extremely strong opiate. When Bowie made Low, he was recovering from his coke addiction... that's why he was feeling so low.


Edited by Anderson III - May 25 2009 at 03:20
"Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and cannot remain silent" - Victor Hugo
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Points: 1601 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2009 at 12:58
Originally posted by KingCrimson250 KingCrimson250 wrote:

Originally posted by boo boo boo boo wrote:

 
Psychedelic drugs are not addictive, not even on a mental level.. If someone abuses those drugs and gets really excessive with them, then that's a personal choice that could have easly been avoided. A lot of musicians used LCD and they were just fine as long as they used it in moderation.
 
As for pot, you pretty much can't abuse pot at all.


I don't think you can say that psychadelic drugs are not addictive on a mental level because when you get to that basis, that sort of psychological addiction, it's got almost nothing to do with the drug itself and everything to do with the person. If a guy feels, for example, that he can't fit in unless he smokes pot, or that acid is the only way he can escape the mundanity of his everyday life, then it's quite possible that he'll develop a psychological dependency and become mentally addicted.
 
As much as I see what you mean, and I agree that it could happen.  Between the overwhelmingness of an acid trip and the mass rapid tolerance you build up, it'd be damn near impossible to abuse.
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boo boo View Drop Down
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Points: 905 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2009 at 15:25
Originally posted by KingCrimson250 KingCrimson250 wrote:

Originally posted by boo boo boo boo wrote:

 
Psychedelic drugs are not addictive, not even on a mental level.. If someone abuses those drugs and gets really excessive with them, then that's a personal choice that could have easly been avoided. A lot of musicians used LCD and they were just fine as long as they used it in moderation.
 
As for pot, you pretty much can't abuse pot at all.


I don't think you can say that psychadelic drugs are not addictive on a mental level because when you get to that basis, that sort of psychological addiction, it's got almost nothing to do with the drug itself and everything to do with the person. If a guy feels, for example, that he can't fit in unless he smokes pot, or that acid is the only way he can escape the mundanity of his everyday life, then it's quite possible that he'll develop a psychological dependency and become mentally addicted.
 
Well yeah if you put it that way, but if you're gonna use that logic, then virtually anything can be addictive. Sex, Gambling, Thrill seeking. It doesn't make any of those things inherently bad. I mean you have alcohol, nicotin and caffeine. Unlike LSD you can grow a physical dependence on them and they're more damaging to your phsycial health, but perfectly legal.
 
Mental addictions are not like physical addictions, they can be controlled if you have the will power. It's just that a lot of people have no will power. Now sure, LSD can have some serious affects on your health if you take it excessively for a very long period of time. But the same is true for big macs and twinkies.
 
It's certainly something you need to think about before experimenting with any kind of psychedelic drug.
 
Now I know there's some kind of rule here regarding drug condonation. For the record I don't use any kind of illegal substances and never have. I'm not condoning the use of them.
 
Prog rock and the Sega Genesis are my drugs. Big smile
 
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep an open mind about the kinda freedoms people should be entitled to have. Like putting certain substances into their bodies. I don't think that should be the government's decision to make.


Edited by boo boo - May 25 2009 at 15:30
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JJLehto View Drop Down
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2009 at 22:04
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Simple? Explain.


Well, I should start with you do not NEED drugs to make good music obviously. We all know that. But how many great bands/musicians have used drugs? The list would be huge. So, historically drugs are important for the creation of music.


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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 09:44
Drugs have been key in influencing many musicans, and not just rock musicians.

The use of hallucinogens has been a part of 'tribal' culture since man first realised there were substances in nature that made you feel different. This was usually tied in with music, dancing and expansion of the senses. From the Shamanic rituals of native American Indians, to the kids pilling their tits off in some tent somewhere listening to a DJ, the principle is actually exactly the same!

We can bang the moral drum all we like about drugs, but they aint gonna go away. They are a reality in music and art, both in terms of their influence, and their capacity to enhance or skew our appreciation of music.
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listen View Drop Down
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Points: 352 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 09:56
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

I saw a Paul Krassner interview on a documentary about the Sgt. Pepper and he said that while drugs certainly influence for the music, you couldn't exactly play well while under the influence of LSD.

True sometimes, but sometimes you play better!
Now is all there is. Be before you think!
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 10:02
Originally posted by listen listen wrote:


Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

I saw a Paul Krassner interview on a documentary about the Sgt. Pepper and he said that while drugs certainly influence for the music, you couldn't exactly play well while under the influence of LSD.

True sometimes, but sometimes you play better!


I think you only 'believe' you play better..

I guess it depends what you mean by 'better'
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Points: 17748 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 10:14
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

Drugs alter perception....but once you get used to the new perception, it's just another point of view.

There are feelings / sensations that can only be obtained with drugs. There are no insights that cannot be discovered (more fully and deeply) without them.

 
Your pituitary gland produces the best type (and safest) of LSD ... who you kidding?
 
The best trips are natural ... and many "mystics" spend their lives studying all this ... you can even go as far back as Moses and Jesus if you want to ... the "experience" is something that is in our inner system and is available to us all ... if we weren't so confused in the terminology and our own beliefs.
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Points: 17748 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 10:29
Originally posted by boo boo boo boo wrote:

In response to what someone said earlier.
 
Gong = Anti drugs?
 
Man if those guys didn't do drugs, they did one hell of a job faking it. From some of the performances I've seen, Daevid Allen looked like he was tripping balls.
 
 
Sad ... and the one person that needed the drugs the least, Daevid, who had connections and actually lived with Mr. Naked Lunch for a time ... had given it up a ways back ... and so had others by that time ... they were extremely aware of some of the pitfalls in these things, and Gilly already had children then ... and she is not a reckless mother ... so if you are saying that they could only do the Flying Teapot Trilogy stoned, it just shows how well you heard the lyrics and paid attention to the music ... Daevid has ... it's not even worth it ... I doubt you guys will read this and be more interested in the sensationalism than the learning and intelligence that a lot of people have ... including here.
 
Because it has the artwork and the look, it doesn't mean it is druggy ... in many ways that's the difference between Europe and San Francisco ... the scen died in San Fran because of the drug over doses ... the scene did not die in Europe because of the drugs ... it continued as an artistic scene ... which it had been from the start ...
 
It's just sad that some folks think that the only way anyone can get inspiration is if they tap into something "out there" if they do some drugs ... and you know that is one of the silliest things ever ... except in America where the media frenzy atrocities around drugs make it all the more attractive and inquisitive all around for everyone.  It's really sad ... everyone blames Janis and Jimi's deaths on drugs ... and no one looks at the person and find out what triggered it in the first place ... easiest cop-out ... don't deal with the problem ... blame the result!
 
Like you have not taken wine with your dinner ... or had a smoke after sex ... so what?


Edited by moshkito - May 27 2009 at 10:30
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Points: 17748 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 10:41
Originally posted by listen listen wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

I saw a Paul Krassner interview on a documentary about the Sgt. Pepper and he said that while drugs certainly influence for the music, you couldn't exactly play well while under the influence of LSD.

True sometimes, but sometimes you play better!
 
There's the rub!
 
You can play better ... but it won't be what's in the paper or in the script ... it will be something else ...
 
And that was the point of some of the things I had written before ... if all you have to play is the Chuck Berry song over and over again, it will be easy to do that ripped senseless ... but you are not gonna be able to play  The Endless Enigma ripped ... you won't last 16 bars (so to speak) ... maybe 32 ...
 
Part of the "progressive" thing, is the importance to bring music into a highler level of composition and creativity ... and while ... yep  ... drugs and many other stimulants can help bring across the piece, in the end the ability to play it back in concert is not something that is gonna be done easily if you are ripped and out of it ... some people might be able to do it, but I doubt they can last very long doing it.
 
This is not Comfortably Numb ... and that is one thing that both David and Roger attack a lot, and in fact when I had dinner with them in '75 you know what Roger's main complaint was about the show? "... too much _ucking dope in the audience!" ... and that's a quote ... i9t interfered with the technical elements and some of the things they were doing on the show ...
 
So if you and others enjoy listening to things and makes you feel better and see something fine ... but don't think that simply because you have enhanced your experience that others are doing exactly what you did ... that's not only presumptuous, it's pathetic.


Edited by moshkito - May 27 2009 at 10:45
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Points: 147 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2009 at 18:30
http://www.klaus-schulze.com/photos/7606.htm

Ok now... let's not be naive. Somebodys body can't become like this without drug usage, for sure... You can find hundreds of many artists pictures like this one  where it's obvious there is a ''touch'' of drugs. And believe it or not it's  very obvious to understand what was going on, if you have the slightest idea about drugs and what can do to human body....
That doen't change the fact that we're talking about a musical genious here of course.


Edited by annexusquam - June 03 2009 at 18:34
https://0a0wake0.bandcamp.com/releases
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Points: 1085 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2009 at 18:46
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

Drugs alter perception....but once you get used to the new perception, it's just another point of view.

There are feelings / sensations that can only be obtained with drugs. There are no insights that cannot be discovered (more fully and deeply) without them.

 
Your pituitary gland produces the best type (and safest) of LSD ... who you kidding?
 
The best trips are natural ... and many "mystics" spend their lives studying all this ... you can even go as far back as Moses and Jesus if you want to ... the "experience" is something that is in our inner system and is available to us all ... if we weren't so confused in the terminology and our own beliefs.
 
No doubt! (it's the pineal gland btw)...I've taken upwards of 500 trips on LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, ayahuasca, etc. & none of them compare in the least to an experience I had a few years back after prolongued asana, pranayama, & dharana experimentation. Endrogenous DMT production is no joke!


Edited by Captain Capricorn - June 03 2009 at 18:47
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Points: 5208 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2009 at 11:25
The brain does not produce LSD, though is does produce it's on NMDA modulators. Though some here are more personally experienced than I, I've studied the stuff pretty well. I think we actually agree. The distinction I made was between sensation and experience. The only thing that drugs can exclusively produce are specific sensation patterns. I think I used too many negatives in my sentence, we agree.
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Evans View Drop Down
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Points: 3004 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2009 at 16:17
I've always been of the opinion that if Sgt. Pepper is the most spaced out thing you can come up with on LSD, it's kind of a lame drug, or you're not doing it right.

People say that all the time, about artists who tend to paint things that are a little far out. "I bet that guy was high on drugs", they say. Surreal stuff, like in the style of Salvador Dali, for instance. It's not that hard to come up with strange stuff like that, but you limit yourself if you tell yourself that drugs is the only way to do it.

'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..'
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2009 at 20:41

Originally posted by Evans Evans wrote:

I've always been of the opinion that if Sgt. Pepper is the most spaced out thing you can come up with on LSD, it's kind of a lame drug, or you're not doing it right.

People say that all the time, about artists who tend to paint things that are a little far out. "I bet that guy was high on drugs", they say. Surreal stuff, like in the style of Salvador Dali, for instance. It's not that hard to come up with strange stuff like that, but you limit yourself if you tell yourself that drugs is the only way to do it.

I think you have to put Pepper in the context of the times.  LSD is an intense drug that you should never take unless you are fully informed of what you are getting into and, as I believe Dr. Leary said, the setting is good.  Having said that I am in no way advocating the taking of illegal substances. 

Now that you mentioned Dali, the best way to get sort of close to an LSD experience is to go see some of his really large masterwork paintings.  The museum in St. Petersburg, Florida is superb.

http://www.salvadordalimuseum.org/home.html

If you can't visit you could order one of these posters:
Halllucinogenic Toreador Poster
This painting is on the permanent display and is huge!!!




Edited by Slartibartfast - June 06 2009 at 09:29
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2009 at 06:47
Sure there are pros and cons about the drug culture & the rock scene.
As a Japanese, it's very important for me to understand the relationship between drugs and Japanese psychedelic rock world.

EVE by Speed, Glue and Shinki should be a typical stuff of Japanese Drug Culture in early 1970s.
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Points: 1085 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2009 at 08:36
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

The brain does not produce LSD
 
I didn't say it did. What I said was that DMT is endogenously produced by the pineal gland. DMT makes LSD look like breath mints. Wink
 
http://www.lightparty.com/Health/SpiritMolecule.html

 


Edited by Captain Capricorn - June 06 2009 at 09:41
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Points: 19643 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2009 at 09:14
Yes, you can't really deny its influence is the 60's... or the 70's...
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2009 at 09:29
Originally posted by progkidjoel progkidjoel wrote:

Yes, you can't really deny its influence is the 60's... or the 70's...

Yes I did some Yes. LOL
Not in the '60's but I did get hooked on Yes in the '70's.
I'm kinda over it now but sometimes I fall off the wagon. Tongue


Edited by Slartibartfast - June 06 2009 at 09:30
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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