Drugs & Music
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Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: General Music Discussions
Forum Description: Discuss and create polls about all types of music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58050
Printed Date: March 02 2025 at 10:30
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Topic: Drugs & Music
Posted By: annexusquam
Subject: Drugs & Music
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 12:15
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So the full question here is: do you believe that drugs were an important factor in music evolution back in the 60s and 70s or not and why? Do you think that drugs played their role (big or not) by affecting inspiration and generally by changing the way of understanding and writing music and lyrics or not? Was their role big or small? ------------- https://0a0wake0.bandcamp.com/releases |
Replies:
Posted By: Anderson III
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 13:35
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Adding a bit of controversy, are we...? Don't mind if I do. For quite some time I've thought that psychoactive drugs and music are linked. It seems that very many genres of music have a drug to go along with them! Now I seriously don't wish to offend anyone, but both New Orleans during prohibition and the island of Jamaica have plenty of pot smokers, and we have jazz and reggae partly (I believe) because of this. Ecstasy users have various sub genres of electronic dance music suitable for them. Obviously hallucinogens affected musicians in the experimental psychedelic era, and I think the musicians would tell you this. And the rise in cocaine use pretty much explains what the hell happened in the 80's... the list goes on! I figure if you have a change in consciousness you might perceive music differently. The way the brain processes music under the influence of drugs is different from the way normal brains do, but I'm not sure how (and can't be bothered to go into detail now). ------------- "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and cannot remain silent" - Victor Hugo |
Posted By: Werneflo
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 14:46
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Well, my favourite Black Sabbath album is Vol. 4. Then did they do the most drugs? Vol.4. |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 14:56
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mmm, well duh..... They are absolutely not necessary to produce awesome music, but it is also absolutely silly to say they haven't massively effected the music of much of the rock era.
But this isn't the forum for that discussion which has been played out already. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 15:05
| I think drugs of every kind have always been present in the arts. On the extremely lively, fertile artistic scene of Paris at the turn of the 19th century, the use of alcohol and drugs was rife - check the cover of John Greaves' Verlaine album, and you'll see a silver absinthe spoon. Edgar Allan Poe was an alcoholic, as were many other writers in the 19th and early 20th century. So, the fact that rock music has been impacted by the use of psychoactive substances is really nothing new. However, it must also be said that, as Jay stated above me, using drugs or alcohol is not mandatory for producing great music (or great literature, or great visual art). |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 15:10
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I saw a Paul Krassner interview on a documentary about the Sgt. Pepper and he said that while drugs certainly influence for the music, you couldn't exactly play well while under the influence of LSD.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Captain Capricorn
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 15:25
No, but one can certainly allow the experiences induced by the drug to inform their writing process.
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Slartibartfast wrote:Posted By: martinprog77
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 16:25
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the great bill hicks said
if you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor. Go home tonight. Take all your albums, all your tapes and all your CDs and burn them. 'Cause you know what, the musicians that made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years — rrreal f**king high on drugs. The Beatles were so f**king high they let ringo sing a few tunes.
 ------------- Nothing can last there are no second chances. Never give a day away. Always live for today. |
Posted By: RoyFairbank
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 16:45
| Big but more from reflections on the lifestyle than the actual chemical effects |
Posted By: moe_blunts
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 16:50
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^RIP (edit: to martin) that was an easy poll ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/moe_blunts/?chartstyle=minimalDarkRecent"> 
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 16:52
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Drugs have a massive impact on music nowadays if I'm honest. The song Pineal Gland Optics - Meshuggah is actually based on experiences with the drug DMT. They always have been a part of musical creation.
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Captain Capricorn
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 17:01
...as are their songs Ayahuasca (named after an Amazonian hallucinogenic brew of which DMT is the active constituent) & Closed-Eye Visuals  |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 20:28
It is very dubious that Poe was an alcoholic; those allegations were instigated by his archenemy Rufus Wilmot Griswold, who did everything to destroy his reputation. It is true though that Poe experimented with Laudanum. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 20:34
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You can bet your ass drugs had a fairly big role to play in music evolution. There is plenty of crazy experiences to be had on hallucinations that you'll never get in the clean, straight world that can inspire song writing.
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Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 21:11
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To all of the above^ and below Not that we advocate drugs in any shape or form. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: moe_blunts
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 21:36
i do  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/moe_blunts/?chartstyle=minimalDarkRecent">
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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 21:45
| ^ you do what? |
Posted By: moe_blunts
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 22:15
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advocate drug use in several forms
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/moe_blunts/?chartstyle=minimalDarkRecent">
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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 22:41
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Well yeah, you're in Austin, they're probably legal. Legal drugs are totally cool on the PA forum dude
Otherwise, we're not allowed to encourage any illegal 'stuff' including, but not limited to, seal clubbing, crack pipes shaped like hand guns and fake CDs of Hendrix bootleg outakes of other bootlegs. All that sort of encouragment of illegal activity type 'chatter' can get your ass banned from this site ... straight up! |
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 23:23
| But you now, I have a cool copy of a bootleg of "Fun with Hendrix Onstage" the psychedelic sequel to the Elvis favorite. |
Posted By: fusionfreak
Date Posted: May 19 2009 at 03:57
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They have been important and "offered" us great albums by great bands(Hawkwind,The Beatles,The Stooges,Jimi Hendrix Experience...)but they killed many talented artists such as Jimi Hendrix,Janis Joplin,Jim Morrison....... ------------- I was born in the land of Mahavishnu,not so far from Kobaia.I'm looking for the world of searchers with the help from crimson king |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: May 19 2009 at 06:14
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Drugs important in the 60s and 70s? Oh, you better believe it! Arthritis, Rheumatism, Diabetes, Alzheimer... ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: May 19 2009 at 06:35
No seal clubbing? I thought I lived in a democracy man! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 19 2009 at 06:55
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When it comes to drugs and music this is the first thing that comes to mind: "And all I see is little dots Some are smeared and some are spots Feels like a murder but that's alright Somebody said there's too much light Pull down the shade and it's alright It'll be over in a minute or two. ... I'm charged up...I'm kinda wooden I'm barely moving...I study motion I study myself...I fooled myself I'm charged up...It's pretty intense. I'm charged up...Don't put me down Don't feel like talking...Don't mess around I feel mean...I feel O.K. I'm charged up...Electricity." Talking Heads - Drugs (partial lyrics) |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: May 19 2009 at 10:20
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I like how Rick Wakeman responded to a related question. Although he never did drugs but almost died from alchohol consumption back in the seventies he said you had to be on something to compose this sort of music but in order to play it you couldn`t be high if you wanted to get it right. Saw a vid of Eric Clapton trying to play Sunshine Of Your Love blitzed on something. Pathetic. It`s out there on youtube somewhere.
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Posted By: annexusquam
Date Posted: May 19 2009 at 10:31
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My opinion is that we're talking about drug ''abused'' musicians back then. I believe, and it may sound silly to some of you, that without drugs many of the big bands wouldn't be so big. Some of you said you can't perform on drugs.....Amon Duul, The Doors, Can, Hawkwind, Gong etc (countless bands), tell me please when did you saw them play with their heads clear? ------------- https://0a0wake0.bandcamp.com/releases |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: May 19 2009 at 10:58
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Someone who would know once sang....
first it giveth then it taketh away.........
------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: annexusquam
Date Posted: May 19 2009 at 11:24
which means....? cause my english is not that good ------------- https://0a0wake0.bandcamp.com/releases |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 19 2009 at 11:35
(I think) it means that drugs can inspire music in the beginning but as the adiction takes hold the creativity vanishes. ------------- What? |
Posted By: jimidom
Date Posted: May 19 2009 at 11:41
------------- "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - HST |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: May 19 2009 at 12:10
------------- |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: May 19 2009 at 13:05
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Regarding my quote it's by Queens of the Stone Age, a stoner rock group. And it's just referring to the fact that drugs have the classic bait and switch quality....early on they seem to offer so much for free and then they give less and start taking the price. There is a flow state that relates to being in the moment and at peak performance, common to many activities be it music or athletics or whatever. Low doses of some chemicals may assist it but at that point they wear off so fast....it's better to do it naturally. Even drinking coffee for your work day is an example. One beer to take the edge off of stage fright. But you push too hard and you can't even play. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 20 2009 at 09:40
AD2 had pretty much already talked about no drugs ... Apocalyptic Bore (Vive La Trance) is about the sky bites ... and how those days were gone. And Peter Michael Hamel suggested in his book that the Amon Duul commune split (into AD2) because there were too many drugs. And in their Utopia (1972) album there is a massive anti-drug song ... attacking what killed some musicians that we love. It's called "What You Gonna Do" ... and later they also did "Explode Like a Star" an even more poignant anti-drugs song.
Gong's You is 100% anti-drugs, and by that time Daevid and other members were already talking about Zen and many other things ... and no drugs. The Flying Teapot trilogy is already about not doing drugs and Daevid would probably tell you to go grab a hashish cigar if you can't tell the difference. Jokingly of course!
Can ... I doubt that they were into drugs that much ... being the scholarly folks that they were, and where they came from, I almost think that the Malcom Mooney early stuff probably came to an end because of drugs and by the time Damo got there, I think that exploration was a way to help get off drugs. Some of the stuff is also not exactly simple (except on Damo's solo activities which sounding "small" by comparison), and playing these again would be difficult on drugs.
Hawkwind ... probably more drink than drugs. And there are stories of members having been thrown out of the group because of it. Considering their catalogue and insanity, you would have to be a moron to even be that stoned playing Hawkwind for the last 30 years ... plain stupid and out of your mind, and I doubt any person would last more than 30 minutes that ripped!
We also are not giving a lot of these "prog" bands any credit ... and that's sad ... they were all inspired by many bands and artists in the 60's and they all were very well aware of the circumstances and abuses.
With that said, Europe has a musical tradition that is hundreds and even thousands of years old ... and the desire to do something different has always been there, and many of these people actually followed more of their cultural and classical mores than they did any drugs or any other inspiration ... and in some cases it was more about a personal/artistic freedom than it had anything to do with drugs or anything else.
You can even hear it in Ash Ra Tempel's 7UP album, where Tim Leary explains about getting into the vibe of the music ... and that in itself is a statement that does not need drugs ... and already many of those musicians were off them anyway ... Klaus Schulze one of them for sure. Popol Vuh was already on a meditation/eastern course and had been for quite some time ... and many of these people were a lot closer to each other than we give them credit for.
I find it insulting and rather sad that we had the idea that drugs create music ... that's not to say that some of the very folks that we like a lot have not experienced it at one time or another ... but I highly doubt it that Mr. Fripp would have indulged ... and he is one of our Gods! And in the West Coiast, maybe you didn't check, but Frank Zappa's family had one of the best known "hospitals" and "care facilities" for many people that got string out on drugs and drink ... and maybe someday both he and Gail will get a nice pat in the back for doing something ... that at the time just wasn't cool ... but they cared about the very people involved! And his music reflects a lot of that even though we will never accept it!
In the eastern countries there is such a thing as a "raga" and the idea is to help elevate the spirit into another realm so it can be free and express its music and art. A lot of the German electronic scene took that avenue rather than drugs ... with Popol Vuh, Ash Ra Tempel and Klaus Schulze the best examples of a raga done in the western world.
But then you get Scorpions off the same area as Amon Duul ... and we know that drugs are big there ... and you can listen to Comfortably Numb and hear the story ... and Roger will be the first one to tell you that drugs were not really major anymore ... specially when they had one of their own freak out over it ... like one would be too stupid not to learn?
Please give music and musicians some credit. For every one that does a lot of drugs there is at least one that doesn't. I suppose you gonna tell me now that Peter Hammill was also stoned immaculate ... what sh*t!
It's not the drugs ... it's the music ... never was the drugs ... or the music was garbage anyway!
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 20 2009 at 09:44
Hmm, were the cops at the door or weren't they? Also, was one hand clapping and making a sound?I'm always kind of amused about discussions about "drugs". All drugs are not equal though some are more equal than others. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 20 2009 at 10:31
I toured with Gong and photographed it for a long period of time. That line has more in common with English humor than it does anything else ... You might want to go to the GAS/Gong boards and ask about this if you don't believe me ...
And please ... european sensibilities about art, music, drugs and many other things are very different than the American paranoid and sadistic media attitude towards all of this ... and as such much more entitled to satirize and have fun with it than here. Here it is always a problem and the media atrocities after the SF days is the problem, not the drugs. The individuals ... well, they did not have very good friends around them, did they? or intelligent enough to know better? ...
Choose your pill! ... and make sure that you know the difference between a person and some media bruhaha ... it will define you too!
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: May 20 2009 at 11:14
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Moshkito - I'm not going to quote the whole of your statement 3 posts above, but I'd just like to say:
Bloody well said  ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 20 2009 at 12:33
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Hi,
Thx JG ... you know what it feels like?
You have to take a pill to get/understand prog? Or any music for that matter?
Yes, many in the annals of the arts have indulged, and so have I and many others ... but that hardly means that it runs our lives or art. But to stage it night after night and keep an audience, and do it well ... it's nearly impossible.
One of the best and worst in one swell foop ... Janis Joplin .. almost all her live albums that are found are really sad ... compared to what was recorded, the exception being one of the best rock albums of all time ... Cheap Thrills ... and the live cut in there for Ball and Chain. The Doors were also terrible on stage because Jim Morrison was often out of it. I don't think I have seen a recording where he was under control and really did an excellent show. Jimi ... may have been stoned, but he had the presence of mind and respect for his music and work to put on one of most important symbols of our time in regards to rock music and drugs and the hippie thing ... he played the national anthem and around him is garbage ... and you know what? We're treating them like it ... it's sad ... the only thing that we missed was the respect for the art, and the drugs were not necessary.
There is not a single movie, band, painting out there that is better stoned than otherwise or vice-versa ... at that point it is not about the music or the art .. it's about YOU. And if you want to get psychological enough about it ... you're empty enough inside that you have to enhance your experience ...
Now .. be an artist for a minute -- on the other side of the coin ... that would not really be a compliment to your work, would it?
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: May 20 2009 at 23:12
| Important. simple |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: May 21 2009 at 02:18
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Simple? Explain. -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 21 2009 at 02:46
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I think the allure of so-called consciousness expanding substances has been soundly debunked by most of the survivors from the 60's and 70's. The fantastic music we can still enjoy exists IN SPITE of these excesses and no, Bill Hicks (who I otherwise adore) got it completely wrong when he mocked the hypocrisy of abstainers and attributed the genius of seminal 60's music to the influence of drugs. Having said that, there is no controlled substance in the navigable universe that has yet been distilled capable of turning Crimson's Moonchild into an enjoyable sit in front of the home stereo. Drugs might be capable of making sloppy crap sound 'other worldly' but that's about it. ------------- 
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: May 21 2009 at 09:16
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Daniel Gildenlow said it better than I:
PA: What are your views on drugs? DG: If you have a small mind they seem to help you get access to the parts you have shut down. It’s like a shortcut to a visionary state that you can reach anyway if you just let go of your mental limitations put there after years and years in this world. If your mind is already large they will just help you shut down other parts of it. Let’s say they are a shortcut to a place to which you will never find a proper way if you use them. Usually, when a mediocre artist starts doing drugs, they will in fact produce one or two interesting albums, more open-minded than their previous work, then they will just turn sour and never do anything as good again. At least, that’s my impression. I don’t go near them. I have struggled through dense vegetation to find that place anyway, and that journey has done me good. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Anderson III
Date Posted: May 22 2009 at 22:17
So what does this mean? You don't need any drugs if you are enlightened, but can be of use if you're not Buddha just yet?  I'm sorry, but it's funny how much Gildenlow sounds like a Supreme Being in this interview. ------------- "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and cannot remain silent" - Victor Hugo |
Posted By: Anderson III
Date Posted: May 22 2009 at 23:14
------------- "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and cannot remain silent" - Victor Hugo |
Posted By: hawkcwg
Date Posted: May 23 2009 at 15:48
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yay for drugs.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 23 2009 at 18:41
Hi,
I agree there ... one can not deny a Rimbaud or (obviously) any of the self destructive folks that we happen to like so much and were obvious inspirations for many of us.
That said, when I first toked, 35 years ago, was also the first time I realized that I didn't want to do this socially ... because it was about being "hip and with it" (California!!!) .... rather than soemthing to learn from and enjoy with ... I was too entranched already into a literary and artistic world to not know that these things happened and inspired people ... but I had also learned from the Beatles and already knew from John that getting stoned was a cop out and not necessary ... and worse than that ... I had already started to read Castaneda and knew right away that the drugs were not necessary at all ... and to me that was where learning all that was an important perceptual tank of possibilities ... that we could work with sooner or later if we wanted to and gave it time and effort.
Sometimes, taking drugs or drink is easy and (seemingly) makes the trip easier to get to ... but more often than not we are not "tripping", or enjoying some fun ... we're escaping this or that ... and that means that the chances of dealing with its consequences just got tougher.
Now we can look at someone like Jim Morrison and we're all aware of the insane amount of drugs ... and there is enough information out there from Ray M. and others that shows they talked about it a lot and even Jim knew that he needed to stop that stuff ... but did not have the personal strength for it. It doesn't make him a bad writer or poet ... just like it didn't Sylvia Plath, or Rimbaud and and what's his name that wrote Alice in bsland, or Edgar Allan Poe or anyone else in history ...
But today, unlike 500 years ago, we can share information and we can help way better than we did then ... you didn't know better and neither did anyone else 100 years ago and the medicine was not there (for example), so it is easier to glorify an Aleister Crowley talking about drugs, although if his book and autobiography are any indication he is extremely anti-frugs ... and he knows why ... you can not do the "magical stuff" when you do not have any ability to maintain or control your own mental faculties ... its deadly if you do drugs in those situations. Read his book "Diary of a Drug Fiend" ... and it's moral is ... get rid of it and make sure that the body shows you it doesn't want it ... so you know and won't fall back. It's the same with drink and anything else ...
But above all, you have to have the ability -- and DESIRE -- to get stronger with your self ... if you don't you are no better off than dead. And so is a lot of music out there that purports to be party and stoned music ... you might remember that famous incident with that kid fan of AC/DC who shot himself ... because he believed the truth in the words of the band and he didn't know the difference. Same thing here ... when you have no "inner source", it doesn't matter if it is drugs, drink, sex or anything ...
But more important? BS ... and those folks are either being facetious or just plain silly! I will say, however, it is their life and they can take care of themselves as they wish ... too bad they might not ever read this and see if there is any truth to it!
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: May 23 2009 at 19:16
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Drugs alter perception....but once you get used to the new perception, it's just another point of view. There are feelings / sensations that can only be obtained with drugs. There are no insights that cannot be discovered (more fully and deeply) without them. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: May 23 2009 at 19:57
You can't deny that this band was inspired by drugs :
 ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 03:29
Really? In what way?  By the way, I think one of the best movies to see to convince you to stay away from drugs would have to be Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: annexusquam
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 12:28
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Fear and Loathind convinces to stay away form drugs?.......ok....... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8knnO38JAw ------------- https://0a0wake0.bandcamp.com/releases |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 12:35
If you actually managed to sit through it until the end you might know exactly what I mean by then. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: annexusquam
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 14:34
no i didn't get it, can you help me? I' ve watched the whole movie though ------------- https://0a0wake0.bandcamp.com/releases |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 19:59
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Hunter does pretty much every drug available at the time. At first it's a little amusing but it descends into utter chaos. How's that? ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 20:25
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Drugs are not gonna turn a talentless hack into Mozart. But they can help spark one's creativity, as long as there's some creativity to begin with.
It depends on the drug. LSD, Cannabis and other psychedelis and quasi-psychedelics are drugs that can open up a persons senses, open up a part of your subconscious. Drugs like that have been very helpful. Espeically for The Beatles, Hendrix, Pink Floyd, The Doors, Grateful Dead and Flaming Lips to name a few.
But stimulants, like coke and herion. All they do is give you energy, they can't spark your creativity. They might enhance a musicians performance maybe.
Granted David Bowie put out some brilliant stuff when he was doing enough coke to kill a small horse. Low is a classic album. But he could have made that album if he was clean.
I don't think The Beatles could have made Sgt Peppers without the acid. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 20:29
| No way in hell 60's music (which in turn made seventies music) would have ever come about with the use of LSD and cannabis. You can make trippy music without drugs, no problem, but the influence on society.... Piper at the Gates of Dawn for example.....not without psychedelics. The genre is called PSYCHEDELIC rock |
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 20:32
| And Fear and Loathing wouldn't keep you away from drugs, maybe all the coke. But I think it fuels the thought of how awesome hallucinogens are/can be. |
Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 20:44
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In response to what someone said earlier.
Gong = Anti drugs?
Man if those guys didn't do drugs, they did one hell of a job faking it. From some of the performances I've seen, Daevid Allen looked like he was tripping balls.
Psychedelic drugs are not addictive, not even on a mental level.. If someone abuses those drugs and gets really excessive with them, then that's a personal choice that could have easly been avoided. A lot of musicians used LCD and they were just fine as long as they used it in moderation.
As for pot, you pretty much can't abuse pot at all. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 20:49
| Yeah, LSD will never be a drug of dependance. It's not specifically comforting and if in an unhappy mood could take you down a much worse mental ride as much as it could bring you up. Honestly, when you look at any statistics of people with drug problems, you never see any of them as psychedelics (ecstacy and PCP are not psychedelics) |
Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 20:52
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Yeah, the problem with LSD is the bad trip, and bad trips usually happen when you're in a bad mood or when you're already a mentally unstable person. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 21:00
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Everytime I watch Fear and Loathing it reminds me of the good times that can happen.That and Withnail and I and the doors film as well for some weird reason.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 22:36
If you have an addictive personality, it's possible to abuse pot. I know a dude going to rehab for severe pot abuse, but again, it must be stressed this was because he had an addictive personality and other underlying issues. For most people, it is correct that you generally wont get addicted to it and really wont affect your life in the way that a meth addiction would. -------------
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Posted By: KingCrimson250
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 00:09
I don't think you can say that psychadelic drugs are not addictive on a mental level because when you get to that basis, that sort of psychological addiction, it's got almost nothing to do with the drug itself and everything to do with the person. If a guy feels, for example, that he can't fit in unless he smokes pot, or that acid is the only way he can escape the mundanity of his everyday life, then it's quite possible that he'll develop a psychological dependency and become mentally addicted. |
Posted By: Anderson III
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 03:18
Setting the record straight on some of this information... Heroin is not a stimulant, but an extremely strong opiate. When Bowie made Low, he was recovering from his coke addiction... that's why he was feeling so low. ------------- "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and cannot remain silent" - Victor Hugo |
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 12:58
As much as I see what you mean, and I agree that it could happen. Between the overwhelmingness of an acid trip and the mass rapid tolerance you build up, it'd be damn near impossible to abuse.
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Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 15:25
Well yeah if you put it that way, but if you're gonna use that logic, then virtually anything can be addictive. Sex, Gambling, Thrill seeking. It doesn't make any of those things inherently bad. I mean you have alcohol, nicotin and caffeine. Unlike LSD you can grow a physical dependence on them and they're more damaging to your phsycial health, but perfectly legal.
Mental addictions are not like physical addictions, they can be controlled if you have the will power. It's just that a lot of people have no will power. Now sure, LSD can have some serious affects on your health if you take it excessively for a very long period of time. But the same is true for big macs and twinkies.
It's certainly something you need to think about before experimenting with any kind of psychedelic drug.
Now I know there's some kind of rule here regarding drug condonation. For the record I don't use any kind of illegal substances and never have. I'm not condoning the use of them.
Prog rock and the Sega Genesis are my drugs.
 But that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep an open mind about the kinda freedoms people should be entitled to have. Like putting certain substances into their bodies. I don't think that should be the government's decision to make. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 22:04
Well, I should start with you do not NEED drugs to make good music obviously. We all know that. But how many great bands/musicians have used drugs? The list would be huge. So, historically drugs are important for the creation of music. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 09:44
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Drugs have been key in influencing many musicans, and not just rock musicians.
The use of hallucinogens has been a part of 'tribal' culture since man first realised there were substances in nature that made you feel different. This was usually tied in with music, dancing and expansion of the senses. From the Shamanic rituals of native American Indians, to the kids pilling their tits off in some tent somewhere listening to a DJ, the principle is actually exactly the same! We can bang the moral drum all we like about drugs, but they aint gonna go away. They are a reality in music and art, both in terms of their influence, and their capacity to enhance or skew our appreciation of music. |
Posted By: listen
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 09:56
True sometimes, but sometimes you play better! ------------- Now is all there is. Be before you think! |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 10:02
I think you only 'believe' you play better..
I guess it depends what you mean by 'better' |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 10:14
Your pituitary gland produces the best type (and safest) of LSD ... who you kidding?
The best trips are natural ... and many "mystics" spend their lives studying all this ... you can even go as far back as Moses and Jesus if you want to ... the "experience" is something that is in our inner system and is available to us all ... if we weren't so confused in the terminology and our own beliefs.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 10:29
Sad ... and the one person that needed the drugs the least, Daevid, who had connections and actually lived with Mr. Naked Lunch for a time ... had given it up a ways back ... and so had others by that time ... they were extremely aware of some of the pitfalls in these things, and Gilly already had children then ... and she is not a reckless mother ... so if you are saying that they could only do the Flying Teapot Trilogy stoned, it just shows how well you heard the lyrics and paid attention to the music ... Daevid has ... it's not even worth it ... I doubt you guys will read this and be more interested in the sensationalism than the learning and intelligence that a lot of people have ... including here.
Because it has the artwork and the look, it doesn't mean it is druggy ... in many ways that's the difference between Europe and San Francisco ... the scen died in San Fran because of the drug over doses ... the scene did not die in Europe because of the drugs ... it continued as an artistic scene ... which it had been from the start ...
It's just sad that some folks think that the only way anyone can get inspiration is if they tap into something "out there" if they do some drugs ... and you know that is one of the silliest things ever ... except in America where the media frenzy atrocities around drugs make it all the more attractive and inquisitive all around for everyone. It's really sad ... everyone blames Janis and Jimi's deaths on drugs ... and no one looks at the person and find out what triggered it in the first place ... easiest cop-out ... don't deal with the problem ... blame the result!
Like you have not taken wine with your dinner ... or had a smoke after sex ... so what?
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 10:41
There's the rub!
You can play better ... but it won't be what's in the paper or in the script ... it will be something else ...
And that was the point of some of the things I had written before ... if all you have to play is the Chuck Berry song over and over again, it will be easy to do that ripped senseless ... but you are not gonna be able to play The Endless Enigma ripped ... you won't last 16 bars (so to speak) ... maybe 32 ...
Part of the "progressive" thing, is the importance to bring music into a highler level of composition and creativity ... and while ... yep ... drugs and many other stimulants can help bring across the piece, in the end the ability to play it back in concert is not something that is gonna be done easily if you are ripped and out of it ... some people might be able to do it, but I doubt they can last very long doing it.
This is not Comfortably Numb ... and that is one thing that both David and Roger attack a lot, and in fact when I had dinner with them in '75 you know what Roger's main complaint was about the show? "... too much _ucking dope in the audience!" ... and that's a quote ... i9t interfered with the technical elements and some of the things they were doing on the show ...
So if you and others enjoy listening to things and makes you feel better and see something fine ... but don't think that simply because you have enhanced your experience that others are doing exactly what you did ... that's not only presumptuous, it's pathetic.
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Posted By: annexusquam
Date Posted: June 03 2009 at 18:30
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http://www.klaus-schulze.com/photos/7606.htm Ok now... let's not be naive. Somebodys body can't become like this without drug usage, for sure... You can find hundreds of many artists pictures like this one where it's obvious there is a ''touch'' of drugs. And believe it or not it's very obvious to understand what was going on, if you have the slightest idea about drugs and what can do to human body.... That doen't change the fact that we're talking about a musical genious here of course. ------------- https://0a0wake0.bandcamp.com/releases |
Posted By: Captain Capricorn
Date Posted: June 03 2009 at 18:46
No doubt! (it's the pineal gland btw)...I've taken upwards of 500 trips on LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, ayahuasca, etc. & none of them compare in the least to an experience I had a few years back after prolongued asana, pranayama, & dharana experimentation. Endrogenous DMT production is no joke!
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: June 04 2009 at 11:25
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The brain does not produce LSD, though is does produce it's on NMDA modulators. Though some here are more personally experienced than I, I've studied the stuff pretty well. I think we actually agree. The distinction I made was between sensation and experience. The only thing that drugs can exclusively produce are specific sensation patterns. I think I used too many negatives in my sentence, we agree. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: June 04 2009 at 16:17
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I've always been of the opinion that if Sgt. Pepper is the most spaced out thing you can come up with on LSD, it's kind of a lame drug, or you're not doing it right. People say that all the time, about artists who tend to paint things that are a little far out. "I bet that guy was high on drugs", they say. Surreal stuff, like in the style of Salvador Dali, for instance. It's not that hard to come up with strange stuff like that, but you limit yourself if you tell yourself that drugs is the only way to do it. ------------- 
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 04 2009 at 20:41
I think you have to put Pepper in the context of the times. LSD is an intense drug that you should never take unless you are fully informed of what you are getting into and, as I believe Dr. Leary said, the setting is good. Having said that I am in no way advocating the taking of illegal substances. Now that you mentioned Dali, the best way to get sort of close to an LSD experience is to go see some of his really large masterwork paintings. The museum in St. Petersburg, Florida is superb. http://www.salvadordalimuseum.org/home.html - http://www.salvadordalimuseum.org/home.html If you can't visit you could order one of these posters:  This painting is on the permanent display and is huge!!! |
Posted By: DamoXt7942
Date Posted: June 05 2009 at 06:47
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Sure there are pros and cons about the drug culture & the rock scene. As a Japanese, it's very important for me to understand the relationship between drugs and Japanese psychedelic rock world. http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=219924 - EVE by Speed, Glue and Shinki should be a typical stuff of Japanese Drug Culture in early 1970s. ------------- http://www.facebook.com/damoxt7942" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Captain Capricorn
Date Posted: June 06 2009 at 08:36
I didn't say it did. What I said was that DMT is endogenously produced by the pineal gland. DMT makes LSD look like breath mints.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine - |
Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: June 06 2009 at 09:14
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Yes, you can't really deny its influence is the 60's... or the 70's... ------------- 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 06 2009 at 09:29
Yes I did some Yes. Not in the '60's but I did get hooked on Yes in the '70's. I'm kinda over it now but sometimes I fall off the wagon. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: June 06 2009 at 10:16
Having no direct experience of either, I'll take your word for it. Be careful, some of these more complex chemicals end up being way more harmful than initially thought (ecstasy being a prime example - use burning out serotonergic synapses leaving the subjects with almost untreatable depression).
Interesting but dangerous territory.
------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 06 2009 at 10:28
You have to wonder if humans and other animals aren't predisposed to intoxicating or stimulating themselves. I seem to remember reading that coffee was discovered by people seeing goats eating the stuff and becoming frisky. Ants in the fridge, hell. Be very worried about the frisky goats... ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Captain Capricorn
Date Posted: June 06 2009 at 10:41
Indeed ...MDMA is no toy. Dimethyltryptamine OTOH occures naturally in the human body & is treated by the brain as being necessary for healthy function, the same way that seratonin & other tryptamines are treated. I enthusiastically recommend DMT: The Spirit Molecule by Rick Strassman, MD for further information concerning the states of consciousness conducive to endogenous DMT production, e.g. birth, R.E.M. sleep, meditation, prolongued prayer, schizophrenia, mantra, extreme stress, death, etc, as well as the effects (as benign as they are) DMT exerts upon the brain. Did you read the article, the link to which I included in my previous post?
About 5 years ago I read a book called Animals & Psychedelics by Giorgio Samorini. He documented extensively the use of psychoactive compounds among a whole myriad of wild & domesticated animals & insects. It is his proposal (& I wholly agree with him) that the will to intoxication is as basic & widespread as the will to procreate. |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: June 06 2009 at 10:58
| Have you ever seen birds getting crazy with the over-ripe fruit, they'll fly right into windows etc. |
Posted By: Dominic
Date Posted: June 06 2009 at 18:12
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As a non drug user, it certainly can get annoying being accused of most likely using them all based on the stereotypes that go along with being a fan of so called "psychedelic" music. I believe some people just have an inclination towards experiencing and creating certain kinds of music just as they do towards enjoying certain flavors of intoxication; it seems to me that they have no direct influence on each other. ------------- 
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: June 06 2009 at 22:22
| Acid |