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timothy leary 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
 Posted: August 30 2008 at 00:34 |
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In an interview Scott Henderson says what an audience hears in Pittsburgh won`t be what they hear in Cleveland. Improvisation. The last Tribal Tech albums were just that. The listener benefits. Pinning down genres is like trying to catch soap bubbles. Led Zeppelin........fusion of blues and jazz
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21211 |
Posted: August 30 2008 at 03:48 |
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I'm not sure that the listener always benefits from improvisation ... it highly depends on the musicians. Some are extremely good at it (Scott Henderson is one of the best IMO), others are not ... for example I'm a really big fan of John Petrucci and I think that he's currently one of the absolute best guitarists out there when it comes to both technique and writing interesting riffs and solos, but when it comes to improvising I haven't heard anything yet which exactly blew me away. |
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: December 24 2007 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 25210 |
Posted: August 30 2008 at 04:15 |
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Not even Petrucci's improvisation on In The Name Of God on Live at Budokan?  |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21211 |
Posted: August 30 2008 at 04:21 |
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^ it's great, just not compared to what Scott Henderson is capable of.
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 25210 |
Posted: August 30 2008 at 04:59 |
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I agree too. Indeed, I have yet to hear an improvisation by Petrucci that could surpass anything Shawn Lane for eg, could do. |
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mr70s
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 21 2008 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 121 |
Posted: August 30 2008 at 05:37 |
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I agree too. Indeed, I have yet to hear an improvisation by Petrucci that could surpass anything Shawn Lane for eg, could do. You might have a long wait......
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timesignature
Forum Groupie 
Joined: April 29 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 52 |
Posted: August 30 2008 at 16:02 |
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i agree |
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darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: November 19 2005 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 10964 |
Posted: September 03 2008 at 01:31 |
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it's true, there must be a decent level of improvisation for a band to be a real jazz-rock band. the example of LTE is good in that they are prog fusion (but they do have some jazz moments here and there, and they do improvise) but the music really is just heavy prog fusion DT style
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12815 |
Posted: September 08 2008 at 11:55 |
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This is confused.
Jazz has always been considered as an off shoot from blues!
Also note: the British Godfathers of blues, Cecil Davis and Alexis Korner had done blues with a strong basis of jazz playing, as Blues Incorporated in the early 60's, as indeed Graham Bond (and his Organisation) were doing this around the same time (and some time member of Organisation, John McLaughlin was in demand as much as Jimmy Page as a session guitarist - you can imagine them meeting talking......). Then John Mayall shifted from his British blues period of mid to the end of the 60's to "blues without bashing" of the early 70's when he shifted his base to the USA, again re-emphasising the jazz elements of blues.
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Tapfret
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 12 2007 Location: Bryant, Wa Status: Offline Points: 8592 |
Posted: September 08 2008 at 12:33 |
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I like Scott Henderson, but even his improv runs dangerously close to "Adult Contemporary". For my money, Holdsworth has more to offer with his improvs and veers away from sounding mainstream. It was one of the primary reasons he only lasted in UK for 1 album.
On the subject of wicked Jazz guitarists, what does everybody think of Alex Machacek? And why has he not been added to the site? BTW Easy Money, I love the term "Fuzak". I always wondered what to call it when I mention fusion and somebody responds with, "Oh, you mean like 4 Play and Kenny Gee and Tom Scott?" Edited by Tapfret - September 08 2008 at 12:40 |
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12815 |
Posted: September 08 2008 at 17:22 |
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Proposed him up quite some time ago but these things take time and volunteers. Check out his Austrian band McHacek (different spelling) Featuring Ourselves released 98 or 99 |
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The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: September 08 2008 at 17:26 |
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I'm confused - jazz in Zep? where? to me it's blues, blues, and more blues. |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65345 |
Posted: September 08 2008 at 17:43 |
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it's hard to hear on the studio LPs but as a long time collector of Zep, erm, 'private releases', I can assure you many of their live extended jams, particularly Bonham's approach to soloing, is straight from the modern jazz of the 1950s and 60s ..it's only evident if you've heard a lot of Peterson, Tyner, Coltrane, etc., ..and remember Page and Jones were seasoned studio vets versed in standard Jazz technique by the time Zep formed (first as 'the New Yardbirds' then jokingly 'the Knobs' for a brief time) though it's true they primarily played blues Edited by Atavachron - September 08 2008 at 17:46 |
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BroSpence
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 05 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2614 |
Posted: September 08 2008 at 22:50 |
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That Allman boy was quite an improviser. Boy howdy.
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
Posted: September 09 2008 at 01:22 |
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Zeppelin were not jazzy?? Listen to the bootlegs! Too late to go to the concert. No quarter
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Tapfret
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 12 2007 Location: Bryant, Wa Status: Offline Points: 8592 |
Posted: September 09 2008 at 02:37 |
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Have it, very Zappa/Holdsworth influenced. SIC he really does his own thing. Improvision is currently on a UPS truck somewhere on its way to me.  |
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splyu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 06 2008 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 316 |
Posted: September 09 2008 at 03:49 |
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Personally, I would agree with both of those statements! Obviously - and this can be observed time and again on this board - everybody has their own idea of what constitutes prog. However, let's look at it this, admittedly simplified, way: symphonic prog = rock + classical jazz fusion = rock + jazz How, then, is one more prog than the other? Is jazz inherently less prog than classical? I'd think both are vitally important influences to prog rock. |
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12815 |
Posted: September 09 2008 at 08:34 |
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No argument wrt Holdsworth/zappa - a number of reviewers stated the album smacked of the Ruth Underwood period Mothers fronted by Holdsworth (including me), which propelled Alex into avoiding the Holdsworthian stuff on subsequent recordings (unlike a number of other Holdsworthian guitarists I could mention). It inevitably with the two albums done with Terry Bozzio (Delete & Roll and [sic]) that he hasn't completely escaped the dense Zappareque polyrhythms. Improvisation was one of my favourites last year - I believe Abstract Logix may have follow up, although in the meanwhile they have issued a live recording of Alex (as MP3s) recently and recorded earlier this year
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The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12815 |
Posted: September 09 2008 at 08:39 |
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Minor correction I might suggest: 'jazz fusion' is jazz fused with any other form or forms of music, e.g. rock, serious/classical, Indian/raga/Quawesi, Japanese, Arabic etc. First use of the term was probably with Joe Harriott/John Mayer's Double Quintet's Indo Jazz Fusion album in 1966
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The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: September 09 2008 at 19:29 |
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Wait, I've got it! Let's call it Fuzz.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Jazz Fusion or Jazz Prog Fusion
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timothy leary wrote:
