78 - 80 Genesis appreciation thread

All the post-Gabriel/Hackett indifference to Genesis is rather depressing.  I stayed away from post-Lamb for a while because people were telling me that the band "died" without Gabriel.  However, I finally decided to take a risk and picked up Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering, two albums that I thought were even better than a few of the Gabriel stuff.  Then I stayed away from the post-Hackett material because of the insistance that the band released pop rubbish.  However, once again, I took a risk, and I'm glad I did.

IMO you made a good choice, because ATOTT is good and W&W is even better.

I seriously think there is some kind of mob mentality to bashing Genesis post-Hackett.  People like to say that it was both Hackett and Gabriel that made Genesis a prog band, but people seem to miss something...

Just use deduction:

• While Gabriel was in Genesis they did Trespass.
• With  Gabriel and Hackett Genesis released NC, Foxtrot, SEBTP, Live and The Lamb.
• Without Gabriel but with Hackett they released ATOTT and W&W.

All of the previous are 100% Prog albums. If Genesis would have continued doing Prog Rock, then Gabriel and/or Hacket are not responsible, but if they change dramaticly, it's obvious Gabriel and Hackett were the onesthat made Genesis a Prog band.

• First they release ATTW3 and Duke, mainly POP with soine touches of Prog
• Then everyrthing is lame POP

You don't have to be a genius to make a deduction, Gabriel and Hackett were the ones that kept Genesis Prog'.

BOTH HACKETT AND GABRIEL WOULD RELEASE POP ALBUMS IN THE 80S!  And while this is obviously a judgement call, I don't think the pop efforts of Gabriel or Hackett ever matched up to the pop efforts of Genesis as a whole.

• How many POP albums made Hackett? I believe 1
• How many Pop albums released Gabriel? I believe 2 PARTIALLY POP 

So, don't use it as an excuse, Gabriel FINANTIALLY BROKE after making the 100% artistic WOMAD, he released a couple of POP TUNES to get economic stability, but he returned to the artistic music.

Hackett explored Prog', Classical, POP and even Jazz oriented music, but his main production is Progressive, they were not good doing POP because that's not their natural style.

Once Genesis turned POP they never came back, all of their production became poppier with each album. It was clear that each album they released was more commercial than the previous. I don't even believe it was good POP, it was boring, and Collins admits it in Genesis a History:

"Yeah, our music is boring, but what's the problem...Boring is good...he he he"

Abacab, Genesis, Invisible Touch... there are some great songs on all of these albums.  Every time I listen to them I am thankful that I gave them a chance.  They may not be outright prog, but there are certainly prog elements prevalent in all three (yes, even Invisible Touch) that make them worth listening to from time to time.

For me all are terrible, mediocre pop (There's great POP like Buckingham/NIcks Fleetwood Mac for example) but this was boring, dull and IMO mediocre, songs like Illegal Alien, Misunderstanding, Who Dunitt and several mediocre love ballads are the prove.

I think too many users on this forum suffer from a sort of romanticized view of Genesis, Gabriel, and Hackett.  They all created brilliant music when they were together, but remember that they also all indulged themselves in popish excess in the 80s. 

As I said before, Gabriel and Hackett made at the most a couple of Poppy records, but they returned to the artistic music once they got finantially strong. Genesis never returned from the dark side.

Saying that it was any one of these three members that influenced Genesis to be "prog" is simply incorrect.  The 70s was a time for progressive rock, the 80s was a time for pop and new-wave experimentation.  Genesis, and these two artists, have proved that they were a product of their time in both

During the late 70's and all the  80's Gabriel released:

• PG I: Prog'
• PG II: Prog
• PG III: Prog
• PG IV : One Pop song Shock the Monkey
• So: Two POP songs out of 8 (Sledgehammer and Don't Give UP)
• Passion: 100% artistic album, no connection with POP

During the late 70's and all the  80's Steve Hackettl released:

• Please don't Touch: Prog
• Spectral Mornings: Prog
• Defector: Prog
• Cured: Poppy
• Highly Strung: Artistic and explorative
• Bay of Kings: Prog
• Till We Have Faces: Explorative of different sounds, artistic, no relation with POP
• Momentum: 100% artistic

While in the same years Genesis released:

• ATTW3: Pop with a touch of Prog
• Duke: Pop with a toiuch of Prog
• ABACAB: POP and offensive for Genesis memory when Collins forced the band to include the Phoenix Horns of Earth Wind & Fire. Tony Banks had ton accept even when he was against this when Coollins said that he would leave if this was not accepted. Plus the most repulsive and vomit inducing song ever Who Dunitt?
• Shapes: More Pop and boring
• Invisible Touch: POP and boring
• We Can't Dance: Phil Collins playing with his favorite POP session musicians, terrible.

So, you can't compare, Genesis went 100% pop, awhile Steve Hackett and Peter Gabriel had a few POP moments in a Prog and Prog related career.

By the way: The 80's was mainly POP, but had several Prog bands, Neo Prog is not my cup of tea, but it's pretty decent compared with what Genesis did, Marillion and Pendragon had excellent Progressaive albums.

Tull kept their level, more oriented towards shorter songs, but still was Tull, genesis was anything except Genesis

Iván