Steve Howe v.s Steve Hackett poll

ivan_2068 wrote: Proglover I won't honour your last post full of insults with a reply. Just for the record, I have quoted each and every word from your posts and answered individually each parragraph and statement, something you can do when yopu have arguments, answering at the end with a couple of phrases is easy, so I never twisted your words, quoted and answered each and every one invidually. When you learn to debate with intelligent arguments and without cheap insults, respecting everybody's opinions,  come back. Just remember that the offence is the last resource when someone doesn't have an argument. Iván

No I disagree, there were moments where you did imply things in my comments that simply were not true....so once again, honored member or not, do not act innocent. And to my way of things YOU were the one who began the rude comments. So what is good for the goose is good for the gander. If you dont like cheap shots dont take cheap shots at me. Quite frankly I found YOUR post to be offensive to me.

And as far as respecting people's opinion....I can not respect opinions that are based in FALLACY.

.....and Ivan.....as far as the way YES "behaves" on stage....lets get things straight.....

You are criticizing YES for being showmen?????????????

NO, I only described the way they act on stage, which is different from Genesis approach to stage acts.

You are criticizing Yes for being performers and entertainers??????????

Again NO, I was only comparing two different styles.

I think you should reexamine the criteria in which you use to criticize bands..........that is the most ridiculous and outlandish thing I have heard in a while.

I would agree with you if I was making a critic, I never made acritic even said this style worked for Yes, comparing is not criticizing PLEASE!!!!!

Since you "know" so much about Genesis lets talk about their beginnings. And before I begin this story don't you DARE, call me a liar, because this is coming straight from the horses'  mouth.....

Please ask that to the ones that call other liars, I NEVER CALLED ANYBODY LIAR, AS A FACT I NEVER WROTE THE WORD LIAR!!!!

BTW: Yes I know pretty much about early Genesis, because it's my favorite band.

Genesis became a band in the first place because NO ONE wanted to play the music they were writing. Genesis did not start out as a band, Genesis (mostly Tony Banks) began writing music for OTHER people to play, and like I said the reason they became a band was to start performing the music that the people who they were writing for didn't want.

Seems you are mistaken,

• Genesis started as a band since they were 17 years old at Charterhouse School, please before you write something, check it you can read the quotes a few lines bellow.
• Genesis members formed the band AT SCHOOL they never wrote music for other people.
• Tony Banks and Peter Gabriel started as members of a band called The Garden Wall while Mike Rutherford and Anthony Phillips started playing in a band called The Anon, when all of them  were 15 except Anthoony Phillips who was 14.

The group had its roots in the Garden Wall, a band founded by 15 year olds Peter Gabriel and Tony Banks in 1965 at Charterhouse School in Godalming, Surrey, where fellow students Michael Rutherford and Anthony Phillips were members of another group called Anon. The two groups initially merged out of expediency as the older members of each graduated; Gabriel, Banks, Rutherford, Phillips, and drummer Chris Stewart soon joined together as the New Anon, and recorded a six-song demo featuring songs primarily written by Rutherford and Phillips. http://music.yahoo.com/ar-315307-bio--Genesis

• So they were creating and performing their own music SINCE 1965 when they were 15 years old, they never wrote music for anybody except for them  (The Anon, The Garden Wall, The New Anon and Genesis, bands in which they performed frm the start of their careers=).
• Before Genesis members left school, they asked an older ex student from their school nemed Jonathan King to produce THE MUSIC THEY WROTE AND PLAYED.

The Charterhouse connection worked in their favor when ex-student, recording artist, and producer Jonathan King heard the tape and arranged for the group to continue working in the studio, developing their sound. It was also King who renamed the band Genesis. In December of 1967 the group had its first formal recording sessions. Their debut single, "The Silent Sun," was released in February of 1968 without attracting much notice from the public. A second single, "A Winter's Tale," followed just about the time that Chris Stewart quit -- his replacement, John Silver, joined just in time to participate in the group's first LP sessions that summer. King later added orchestral accompaniment to the band's tracks, in order to make them sound even more like the Moody Blues, and the resulting album, entitled From Genesis to Revelation, was released in March of 1969. http://music.yahoo.com/ar-315307-bio--Genesis

• As you can see, Genesis was formed WHEN THEY WERE 16 AND 17 YEARS OLD, they never had time to write music for others, they were at school for God's sake and they already were performers.
• Won't call you liar, but I assure you all your information is wrong

Tony Banks and most of Genesis never wanted to be performers....

Tony Banks as I said before was already a performer at the age of 15 in a band called The Garden Wall with Peter Gabriel, they made the music and they played it. Tony was Genesis keyboardist since he was 17 and the band formed.

Probably you're mistaken with Anthony Phillips, who left Genesis because he had stage panic, but Genesis was born as a band with members who were performing on two bands previously mentioned.

they didn't see themselves as being performers. They were somewhat forced to. So of course they are going to behave on stage in a different manner than YES.

I don't know where you get your information, but every source repeats what I wrote, and the evidence is clear, they always were performers, when otherkids were playing soccer, they were already performing and writting music.

 Why are you bad mouthing YES for being performers and showmen????????............ like I said its ridiculous.

Again, I'm just making a comparison about two different styles and approachs to music, not criticizing their styles, if you consider that calling Yes members virtuosos is an insult, I can't understand your poisition.

But first of all, how the two bands act on stage has nothing to do with their music, or musicianship.........so what the hell are you talking about. Like I said in the past post which you were too cowardly to respond to.... we are not comparing the bands, we are only comparing HOWE AND HACKETT.

In first place I'm never afraid to answer a post, so don't start calling me a coward, I have proved that with almost 3,000 posts that I always answer what I'm asked, and normally I have enough evidence to support my arguments..

And yes, I believe it's pertinent to compare the ttwo bands styles because that style is the source where their members acquiredtheir styles

AND HERE IS A REVOLUTIONARY THOUGHT!!!!!!..................perhaps YES genuinely feels the music, perhaps YES are moved by the music and it resurrects itself in the fashion of what you so inaccurately refer to as trying to be leaders. And as far as Rick Wakeman is concerned.....yes he wears capes.....OH MY GOD WHAT A SIN, HE SHOULD GO TO HELL FOR WEARING A CAPE............but look at how he plays...........Wakeman is NOT a flashy player at all.....HE SIMPLY PLAYS!! He doesn't move alot, he barely shows any facial expressions, most times he has his eyes closed...............HE JUST WEARS A CAPE........someone shoot him for wearing a cape. he's trying to be the leader...SHOOT HIM!!!................Give me a break Ivan.

I was just pointing he wears a cape and likes attention, comparing him with Tony Banks style who hides behind his keyboard, to be honest I believe Wakeman is more technically skilled than Banks, read all my reviews about Wakeman albums, and you'll find that the ones I reviewed have been rated with 4 or 5 stars.

SOMEONE SHOOT CHRIS SQUIRE FOR JUMPING AROUND THE STAGE.....god forbid he get excited about the music he's playing.......god knows he's played it hundreds of times. And please crucify HOWE for showing facial expressions....these YES guys are losers.....they should stand still like Genesis. Because Genesis is the only true way for a band to behave......once again, give me a break Ivan. You're being silly.

For God's sake, READ MY POSTS, I'm just describing their styles, and I clearly said that it works for them, can anyone of you understand what do we write??????????

It's useless, you will understand what you want to understand, I never said Yes were a bad band or anything similar, I just described my perspective about their style, never used an adjective to qualify them.