Please Vote In My Poll

gleam wrote: As reprehensible as this is, I vote yes. I don't think we should prevent people from exchanging commercial goods just as I don't think we should stymie their right to voice their opinions. I think the people who are willing to pay for those tickets are more concerned with the status of "having attended" or "can afford to pay" rather than the significance of what Bob Geldof is trying to achieve. He said as much days ago when he cited that the objective's event was not to raise funds but to drive people's political consciousness toward's the third world's debt.   I think we should direct our energies towards that goal and not fret over whether a few bad apples are going to profit from ticket scalping. Don't get me wrong Tony, I admire your passion and am not downplaying your concern. It's just I think we can achieve more by focusing on getting the word out on the plight of Africa rather than bickering among ourselves.

But we are not bickering amongst ourselves!

Gleam the people selling tickets on this forum are only members in so much as they had to become members of this forum in order to sell their tickets.They are not "real" members so why should we afford these scum any "freedoms"?

I already direct my energies towards the goal of clearing "Third World" debt! This is just a small piece of "available action" in the whole scheme of things.We can stop this on our site-so why not??????

Obviously I didn't read through the entire thread and was unaware we had interlopers. That's heaping injury on top of insult. Having said that I suggest "two by fours" at dawn for them, kick them out.

Gleam the people selling tickets on this forum are only members in so much as they had to become members of this forum in order to sell their tickets.They are not "real" members so why should we afford these scum any "freedoms"?

I already direct my energies towards the goal of clearing "Third World" debt! This is just a small piece of "available action" in the whole scheme of things.We can stop this on our site-so why not??????

There is an old adage about why true socialism can never work. 

If every adult in the world was allocated £1 at midday, before 12.10pm, there would be some people with £2 and others with none.  Driven by greed, those who have £2 have misused their natural talents to con the £1 from other, more vulnerable members of society, with no concern for their future welfare.

Its this same base instinct which motivates these individuals to earn a £1 at the expense of their vulnerable African brothers, even at a time when the leaders call out for all members of society to demonstrate the highest of moral values. 

Tony R is right to feel the way he does.  We cannot condone this selfishness.

All:

Let me make a couple of observations.

First, as to the fact that these members joined for the sole purpose of selling the tickets.  We also had quite a few members join for the sole purpose of giving Octavarium a 5-star review.  And few if any of them have contributed since - and I would bet dollars to donuts that none of them will post another review until the next DT album comes out.

Should we then also delete all their reviews, as well as ejecting them, since they are "using" the site?

Second, the ticket issue has now come down to what seems to be a single word: morality - the morality or immorality of "making money" on the back of a fundraiser.  Setting aside the fact that I explained, from a decade of experience in fundraising, that these tickets have zero effect on the bottom line of the fundraiser, the question begs to be asked: since when is "morality" - or perhaps more accurately, "immorality" - something that warrants deletion here?  Should we go back and delete every "immoral" post in every controversial thread?  Or even delete the threads themselves?  Is this what you would have the admin group do?  Indeed, who, pray tell, is the one who is determining what is "moral" in this regard and what is not?  After all, if we ejected every member who engaged in immoral posting, I can think of at least half a dozen - including many "veterans" - who would be gone.

From my perspective, this sends us down the very road of censorship and proto-totalitarian behavior that all of us - members and admin alike - have diligently sought to avoid.  As I pointed out to Tony in a PM, even hate speech is protected by the First Amendment as long as it does not cross the line into an incitement to cause physical harm.  Are you all suggesting that the "immoral" nature of the ticket threads is more offensive - more justifying of deletion - than posts or threads that display immoral points of view, or "toe the line" of hate speech?

I think all (or most) of you are getting so carried away by your "passions" that you have given far less thought to all of this than you probably should.

As an aside, I have noted, ad nauseam, that if a particular thread offends you, then simply ignore it and it will "fall way" to the nether regions of the site.  The same holds true here.  If the ticket threads offend you, ignore them.  Because, as stated, the only person(s) being "hurt" - assuming there is any "hurt" involved at all - is/are the buyer(s).  Indeed, also as stated, if the buyer(s) truly want(s) to go, and is/are willing to pay for a ticket that s/he knows was free, how can any of you justify having anything to say about that?  Have you considered how you would feel if the shoe was on the other foot?  Would you want others telling you what you should or shouldn't do with your money, or calling you names for engaging in this type of transaction?  And don't tell me for one second that "I would never do that"; if you have ever bought a ticket from a scalper (and I would put my life on the line that many if not most of you have), then you have also engaged in an "immoral" practice which is only one very small step above what you are roaring about.

Yes, call the seller a "parasite," and the buyer "stupid" if you feel that way.  However, the sale itself, as "immoral" and objectionable as you may find it (and clearly not everyone does, or at least does not believe it rises to the level of "ejection"), does not rise near to the level at which it trumps free speech.

As noted, the site will not become an agora, or even a place where such transactions are "encouraged."  However, as stated, there has always been a place on the site for transactions between members, even if concert tickets did not appear until now.  However, within the scope of member transactions, concert tickets, while not originally contemplated, are acceptable.  That many of you consider this particular transaction "immoral" notwithstanding, the threads will remain, and will be deleted the day of the concerts.

Peace.

Maani said

I think all (or most) of you are getting so carried away by your "passions" that you have given far less thought to all of this than you probably should.

Well passion certainly hasn't got the better of me. I don't feel passionate about this in the way others possibly do, but I think there is a case for bending the rules!

These people care nothing for this site, or the concert. This forum is just a tool for their marketing. Is that what you want for this Forum Maani?
   Let these people try to offload their tickets elsewhere!

Tony:

You said, "He talks about freedom of speech but I say make an exception-after all you have deleted posts that use "profanity" Change the rules to read......"and anything else that the admin group deem inappropriate.""

Have you ever read Orwell's Animal Farm?  Because your statement is practically a direct quote from the book.  I simply cannot believe that this is the road you want to go down...  I never expected Orwellian thinking from you.

Peace.

Lets all of us declare these posts "Spam" and hhave some democracy in action here!

Please vote here.

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8192&a mp;PN=1&TPN=1