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laplace 
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: October 06 2005 Location: popupControl(); Status: Offline Points: 7606 |
 Posted: June 21 2008 at 02:51 |
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cedric bixler zavala ftw |
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: May 26 2008 Location: Declined Status: Offline Points: 16715 |
Posted: June 21 2008 at 02:55 |
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Sure they do. Pocketful of Sunshine, Umbrella, and I Kissed A Girl are currently tormenting me because they are so abominably catchy.
False nostalgia is mostly what this thread is about. The state of the mainstream can change, but I don't think it has, at least not all that much.
*facepalm*
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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WalterDigsTunes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 11 2007 Location: SanDiegoTijuana Status: Offline Points: 4373 |
Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:00 |
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Trip-hop, Britpop, drum & bass, grunge, nu-metal, "alternative", post-grunge, boy bands, "indie"... and the list of deplorable post-89 styles goes on. Why not hearken back to an age without these abominations? |
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008 Location: Declined Status: Offline Points: 16715 |
Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:07 |
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Because there's good music in all of those (well not really post-grunge and nu-metal, and boy bands is not a genre) and you're just being cranky by unilaterally declaring music "dead"? How is that even substantially different from disco and crap on any sort of "objective" level? For that matter, what does it even matter that some things are popluar?
DnB is awesome, by the way. SNARES BABY!
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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WalterDigsTunes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 11 2007 Location: SanDiegoTijuana Status: Offline Points: 4373 |
Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:12 |
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For a second, you had me going. And then...
 Unlistenable modern foolishness based on a beat performed in the late 60s. Go figure. |
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008 Location: Declined Status: Offline Points: 16715 |
Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:16 |
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Well no, I don't expect to actually get you to stop being stuck in the past, I'm only doing this for my own amusement. Unless I could actually drag up some modern prog, but because my taste in prog is obviously much different from yours, I don't want to waste time trying to do that. I'll leave it to someone who cares about modern symph.
Richard D James stole his music from people in the '60s? That's news to me.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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WalterDigsTunes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 11 2007 Location: SanDiegoTijuana Status: Offline Points: 4373 |
Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:19 |
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See the Amen Break. Modern 'artists' stealing? No surprise there.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008 Location: Declined Status: Offline Points: 16715 |
Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:31 |
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Yes, art died on your cut off date... That is interesting, I hadn't heard of that before, somehow. How can you count it as stealing or even being "based on" when it's just the same drum sound with a completely different ryhthm? It's not like the end product sounds anything like the original. And RDJ and Co. also used drum machines. Everyone is influenced by something. And he clearly really hates DnB so it's hard for me to take him incredibly seriously--How dare they make something that's not danceable! It's just w**king!
By the way, I do agree that a lot of DnB sounds too similar to each other, but that's true of any genre. And why you only listen to the good ones. ;-) Edited by Henry Plainview - June 21 2008 at 03:38 |
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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WalterDigsTunes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 11 2007 Location: SanDiegoTijuana Status: Offline Points: 4373 |
Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:38 |
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Like, say, David Bowie
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65268 |
Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:39 |
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Letterman used to have some really good artists on his show (SNL too), but the last few years it's been mostly crud, tonight it was the Baseball Project
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008 Location: Declined Status: Offline Points: 16715 |
Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:57 |
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Sure. ;-)
I've actually just skimmed through my Aphex Twin collection, and I didn't here it because RDJ uses his own drum machines. So there! This is obviously less true for Squarepusher, though. Thanks for the link, and while I wish he had talked faster, that was very interesting. Especially since he comes down on the side of sampling at the end. I suppose that the original had its roots in jazz/gospel too, so it's an endless chain backwards.
Some of those samples aren't even trying. But IDM/DnB isn't stealing! Edited by Henry Plainview - June 21 2008 at 04:01 |
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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darren
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 31 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 452 |
Posted: June 21 2008 at 07:57 |
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I agree. I cannot understand these people who praise 70's music as if there was no bad music around. There was just as much, if not more, bad music in the 70's as there was in the 80's or anytime. For whatever reason, many tend to conveniently filter out crap like Shawn Cassidy, The Partridge Family and Debbie Boone.
When people start praising 70's music, I like to mention "Disco Duck" (and the follow up "Discorilla"), "Convoy", "Midnight At The Oasis" and "Afternoon Delight".
Well, I digress but there's a lot of great music out there as there has always been at any time in the last many years, you just have to be willing to avoid the mainstream and find it.
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"they locked up a man who wanted to rule the world.
the fools they locked up the wrong man." - Leonard Cohen |
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 5898 |
Posted: June 21 2008 at 09:56 |
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Thing is, even when keeping the well documented "nostalgia filter" in mind I still feel music is worse off than it was 30 years ago. The good stuff being made today is there, but it is generally much harder to find, and when new bands try to play in an old style they are usually so obsessed with being retro that they fail at bringing anything new to the table. It doesn't help that retro rock has become a fad, which means lots of glorified cover bands get record deals. (noticed that the only good retro bands are those who started before it became popular, like Electric Wizard and Monster Magnet?) Another part of the problem is... well, not as much grunge as the reaction to grunge - way, way too many people heard something like Nevermind and thought that was the only way good rock music could sound. The results? It's somehow become possible to market extremely formulaic and bland music as "alternative" and expect people to buy it, most people refuse to take prog-rock and metal seriously, boring grey stuff is the average idea of what serious meaningful music is... no wonder Kurt Cobain committed suicide.  |
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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T.Rox
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 06 2004 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 9455 |
Posted: June 21 2008 at 10:52 |
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Except for the LRB track, which came on the eponymous LRB album with the supurb eight-minute plus version of It's A Long Way There, one only feined appreciation for these groups to impress the girls. The chicks never did dig my music collection because there was never any of that stuff to be found when they looked through it! (And my wife hates most of my music, so nothing has changed.)
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"Without prog, life would be a mistake."
...with apologies to Friedrich Nietzsche |
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008 Location: Declined Status: Offline Points: 16715 |
Posted: June 21 2008 at 10:53 |
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People never took prog and metal seriously. |
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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artmyxolydian
Forum Newbie 
Joined: May 27 2007 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 5 |
Posted: June 21 2008 at 12:27 |
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When music ceases to be a art form it will become awful eventually. There has to be a musical statement.
How can Coldplay be such a big band? |
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 5898 |
Posted: June 21 2008 at 14:16 |
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Well, metal's never ever had it easy but it's difficult not to get the impression that more people (who weren't dedicated fans of those two genres) still took them seriously before grunge became popular than is the case after. Observe: In the seventies, you had Yes and Pink Floyd and even Hawkwind pretty high up on the sales top 40 while the Church of England felt seriously threatened by Black Sabbath. In the eighties, a prog supergroup like Asia could become a commercial success - and the establishment was more terrified by metal than ever before. Today, prog rock is seen as something only nerds listen to and people who don't like metal just laugh at it instead of fearing it. (and remember, fear implies respect) Why? Because grunge has usurped prog's place as the definition of intelligent rock and metal's place as the definition of angry young man rock. |
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition Joined: April 10 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3928 |
Posted: June 21 2008 at 15:29 |
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I'm not sure about that- the genre 'grunge' seems to me to be pretty much dead, save for Pearl Jam who are still plodding on (who I always found one of the most boring bands in the world!!). Its main influence that I can hear is on horrible bands like Nickelback and Puddle Of Mudd who diluted the original grunge sound. I quite liked Nirvana and Soundgarden though.
I see a lot of hip US 'indie rock' acts namecheck prog acts as being personally inspirational to them in some way. The tag itself is something of an albatross, though.
I often encounter a lot of snobbery aimed at metal though, yes- The Guardian's music blog (which I usually loathe with a vengeance- full of 'right on' old Melody Maker/NME hacks exposing their prejudices time and time again) had a great piece which delved into this. It showed that whilst in recent years there was a lot of begrudging acclaim for albums by bands like Mastodon or even the more 'prog' ones like Opeth and Porcupine Tree, none of their albums featured in any of the 'best albums of the year' poll in any of the major UK magazines or newspapers. It was clear to see there was a definite snobbery- I would argue the UK is the worst place in the world for this snobbery towards certain genres. Edited by salmacis - June 21 2008 at 15:32 |
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Visitor13
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: February 02 2005 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 4702 |
Posted: June 21 2008 at 15:30 |
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You a communist or something? |
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mithrandir
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 25 2006 Location: New Mexico Status: Offline Points: 933 |
Posted: June 21 2008 at 15:47 |
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seriously, how have the terms "grunge" and "alternative" survived this long? they have no meaning in todays music, at the time, like 1991 it meant "Music that aint soundin' like Winger, Warrant or latter era Boston," But that label got meaningless quick after everyone trended to the 90s haircuts and anyone including sheryl crow and her grandmother were considered "alternative"
Edited by mithrandir - June 21 2008 at 15:50 |
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The Lets talk about awful music of today thread
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