The Lets talk about awful music of today thread
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Topic: The Lets talk about awful music of today thread
Posted By: BroSpence
Subject: The Lets talk about awful music of today thread
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 00:24
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Seriously, I don't think there has ever been a worse time of mainstream music. I mean in the early 00's there were some hits that were legitimately good. The last few years have been pretty horrific though. I often tune into MTV playlist to see what new songs are out that are popular and that sort of thing. Not one single good song. No good licks, no good musical value of any kind. Generic, awful production. Apparently the rest of the mainstream rap/r&b world was unaware of the vocoder until recently (even though Tupac used it over a decade ago, and tastefully).
Here is a thread where you can rag on that trash that is top 40. I'm talking last 4-5 years here. If you don't know whats going on I advise you to turn on MTV, or check out samples on itunes or whatever because even a small taste is enough. There are people making big bucks when they can't even hold a note. Its ticks me off. There are people that are supposedly "good" at rapping on the radio. I have yet to see evidence (I am a fan of hip-hop as some of you know, I'm not beating on the genre just the everday gener-o crap.) I think the two things that bother me most when I hear one of these modern pop songs is 1. the vocal production because the singer obviously can't sing at all and has a ton of pitch correction and compression on his/her voice. and 2. the ridiculously bad choice of beats (and rhymes for that matter) in any rap/r&b song as of recent. They're all the same beat. They don't even have a push behind them. Its the combination of the wimpiest fake snare/snap/click/clap and wimpiest fake bass drum. Then there's songs like "Cyclone" which not only features awful rapping, a terrible and used-to-death hook, but it sounds identical to previous hits like "Low". Maybe they're the same artist I don't know. I just hear it and laugh at how bad that **** is. Share your thoughts!!! |
Replies:
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 00:38
2008 is becoming a year of heaven for indie. 
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 00:39
| I don't listen to any post-1989 music, thankfully. Keeps out all the foolishness of today, plus all the dire 1990s goofiness too. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 00:43
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*grumble grumble -- hrumph! *
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 00:49
What is dished out on radio is utter garbage and only getting worse by the day. Humans by in large are so very manipulatable. Tell them what to listen to and they will. Just listen to the crap bouncing out of most cars today as they pass by.............
Yup, the masters of the music industry these days are nothing more than big fat pant loads following an agenda put forth by their masters. I won't go any further.
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 01:14
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You know, the average prog fan cares a sh*t ton about music. So they're
pissed when regular people just like whatever's convenient. To most people, it's like "Ooh cool Jack Johnson song on the radio...*5 minutes later*....let's go party on the beach and live our lives doing diverse and unique things!" Meanwhile... Prog Fan = Gawd this music is complex and crazy! Look at these time sigs, man! Oh here come the synths *orgasm* ....*5 minutes later*....hey, when was the last time I saw the sun or hung out with a girl? Hmm.... Music...serious business. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: soundsweird
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 01:14
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lowest common denominator
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Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 01:26
Your loss.
This. |
WalterDigsTunes wrote:Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 01:32
yeah, ears have so much damn influence over what we listen to! People are so very manipulatable, listening to what their ears tell them they like. Gawd.  |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 02:37
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YOU'RE RIGHT FOLLY now is the time that hearing should be made to be a purely voluntary thing; the spirit of man will be free detached from the obligation to approve of beats and tap his foot
lol I don't know why I posted that I have been listening to a lot of the modern prog we're reduced to, lal, most of it being new-symph, post-rock or SUPPOSED prog-metal and I have to say that a lot of it is as bad as this year's pop in terms of complete ineffectuality. Worse so because it has the pretenses of originality and of intellect yet there is none to be found. lappy taste (in descending order): ART BAERS and AREA etc several mile gap of quality Leona Lewis No-Man ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 02:37
At 39, and without any teenage kids, I can only guess what gets a teenagers attention in music these days. When I was a teenager I liked heavy metal and prog rock, and yep, Stonie, I never saw the sun. I just stayed in my room, playing my Iron Maiden records backwards hoping Satan would give me some tips on how to pick up girls. He didn't.. 
With regard to mainstream music, people look for an estblished and successful formula to latch on to. People like simple music because it's easy to remember, sing along and dance to. The rhyming scheme of most lyrics is not dissimilar to the nursery rhymes we hear as children, and I think people connect unwittingly to this too. It's a comfort zone thing. So, yes if you're looking for something that breaks with musical convention, you're not going to like chart music. As you get older the chart music of the day sounds much worse than the chart music of your own youth. In my experience, anyway. It sounds more simple, less melodic, less emotional. Some of this may be down to simply getting older and not 'understanding' what modern pop music culture is about, but the fact is, you could take any number of chart hits from the 80's and easily demonstrate how they are more 'musical' than most of what gets in to the charts these days. Even the 'boy bands' of the day; Duran Duran, Spandau Ballet, ABC etc actually composed their own music and played their instruments. They were actual musicians as opposed to a bunch of groomed boy men sitting on a row of stools re-hashing other peoples smoochy love ballads to an audience of desperate housewives and their teenage daughters. They are the soundtrack of the hen night, the Kareoke bar. The special guests on the prime time chat show. Puppets of record company businessmen. Then there is the plethora of identical sounding R'n'B singers and rap artists... I dont pay that much attention to what goes on musically these days. I've not watched MTV since the early 90's, and my only exposure to mainstream music is being forced to listen to commercial radio all day at work. So I only really get to hear about 10 songs repeated over and over again. I'm sorry, I know there are probably Nickelback fans here, but if I hear that f  ing 'Rock Star' song again, I'll blow my head gasket..
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 02:51
Ah the 80s...I actually wish I was born in like 1964 or something, just to have vague memories of the 70s and then be sentient entering the 80s. There was lotsa crap sure, but Kate Bush, The Police, Iron Maiden, Marillion...!!! The Police were f**king huge and their music is redonkulously complex for mainstream music. Grr...at the very least I wish I were born in like 84 or something so I could experience the 90s as more than just blips on my memory radar....Smashing Pumpkins...MTV....Legends of the Hidden Temple....mmm.... Moreover, MTV was f**king good in the 90s. Sure, it wasn't amazing programming, but it had The Real World before the whole reality show thing got stale, Singled Out, Nevermind The Buzzcocks, Headbanger's Ball...And VH1..!!! Dammit whatever happened to endless re-runs of Behind the Music and late night marathons of "I would do anything for Love" by Meatloaf?  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Kestrel
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 02:54
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I feel like the mainstream has hit a state of major stagnation this past couple years. I was just a kid in the late 80s/early 90s, but the current state of music reminds me of what I've heard about that era: music was becoming stagnant, the top hits were the same-o, same-o, and then Nirvana came. I'm sure I won't like what comes next, but it seems the industry is waiting for the next Nirvana. It seems the state of mainstream rap today is much like hair metal: excessive, pointless, and all to similar to every other song of the genre. I don't see too much of a difference between a hair metal video and a rap video these days, the latter just makes use of modern technology. |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 07:31
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We have a bad problem getting worse:
1. As long as there are mass audience for TV's X Factor, Pop Idol, Fame Academy or any other identical "talent show" which has Simon Cowell in particular as a judge. Did you hear his Desert Island Discs choice - IMHO dire for a so-called musical pundit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/desertislanddiscs_20060813.shtml - http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/desertislanddiscs_20060813.shtml .
2. As long the music radio stations increasing rely on music stored for a hard drive limiting variety, rather than taking from a CD or even LP, there is an executive and obviously biassed choice (aka playlists a, b and c) to what gets played (and increasingly I feel the record industry can really manipulate this).
And I don't believe it, there is a half decent web article on the subject:
http://entertainment.uk.msn.com/music/features/article.aspx?cp-documentid=6770782 - http://entertainment.uk.msn.com/music/features/article.aspx?cp-documentid=6770782 ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 08:29
That article hits the nail, I think.. I;d being saying this for the last five years, re; 'Indie bands': "And while exception-that-proves-the-rule, Girls Aloud, are left to carry the flickering torch for what we remember as pop, the rest of the music industry, in reaction to the transparency of the reality TV process, delivers us a host of uninspired, identikit, but most definitely 'real' groups, playing in what's become paradoxically known as the 'indie' style, elevated to a status above and beyond anything their dismal output deserves, merely for what they represent"
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Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 08:48
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I'm really not sure about this, I remember the middle '70s being even more horriffic, with Boney M and Donna Summer cluttering up the air waves. Kung-Fu Fighting? Bleachz! Honestly, if you like music it goes for today as well as the past: Stear well clear of radio.
For those who listen, there's always good music about. But as I just wrote: The disco trash of the 70s was a cesspit the equal of which thankfully hasn't been reached since. Just look at the convoluted sentence as a measure of my disgust!
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Posted By: Zitro
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 09:31
| I really like "The Pretender", used to dig "Toxicity" when it came, and sometimes there's a neat proggy song every now and then like from Tool, but I share the same sentiment expressed here for most of the rest of the radio music of now. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 09:33
Avoiding radio is good avice. I'd agree with that.. However, I think the Disco music of the 70's was still superior in its composition, and in the performances, than most mainstream pop today. At least it was original in its time. Likewise the punk movement that followed it - or preceeded it if you count The Ramones and & Iggy as the true start of punk - was a sh!t load better than the high school punk pop of today. |
Posted By: spookytooth
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 10:20
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This is all I have to say about mainstream radio in the late 00's: If a song like "Crank Dat" could be number 1 for 6+ weeks (something like that) than I don't have a lot of hope...well, for the radio at least. On the billboard 200, I am seeing improvements. I just saw Snakes and Arrows from Rush go to number three last year, and R.E.M.'s new album went to number two this year. In Rainbows also went number one. Magic from Bruce Springsteen also went number one. Even hip hop on the billboard 200 has been showing some improvement. Kanye West's "Graduation" went number one, as did "American Gangster" from Jay-Z. Wu-Tang Clan's new album also charted high (25th, I think). To sum it up, the music on the radio is imploding on itself, but some of the albums on the higher area of the billboard 200 are pretty good. Plus, it's cool to see Rush being in the top five on the charts again... ------------- 
Would you like some Bailey's? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 11:06
Manufactured bands, music-by-formula, copyists and Svengali producers have always been a part of Popular music but something has gone awry over the past few years that cannot be purely laid at the feet of Simon Cowell (Mack the Knife indeed In the past there was always something to counter the plastic prefabricated pop: you could generally find something in the Top-40 or on MTV that was raw, un-sullied and fresh - 'Indie' bands should be providing that, yet what we have is bland and derivative; The Internet should have fixed that, yet it has little real impact on the chart (I've said this before: MySpace has not made anybody famous); The diversity of public tastes should guarantee a varied chart, but fewer people are buying music now - the demography is unbalanced - the results are skewed in favour of a minority. ------------- What? |
Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 11:54
To be fair, Kanye West's "Graduation" is atrocious. Utter crap, except for his whiz production. He was never a good lyricist or voice, but Christ, he had better rhymes than that. And people called it one of the albums of the year. Cryin' shame. Now, last year had some pop gems, from Springsteen to Arcade Fire, and this year has the best R.E.M. album since Automatic For the People and that new Coldplay album not only doesn't send me into a frothing rage, it's one of my favorite of the year. I agree that albums, though selling less due to teh interwebs, are charting increasingly because of quality (notable exceptions: anything coming from a Disney Channel show). It just gets kind of old to see threads like this on this or any forum, not to mention the conversations you have in the real world, saying how "it's not like it was in my day." You know who else said that? Your parents. These are the same people who vacantly dismiss all rap, despite such undeniable talent as Eric B. and Rakim, Public Enemy, A Tribe Called Quest, Nas, and so on and so on (granted it hasn't been that hot recently unless Jay-Z releases something), and call today's pop music empty when they used to dance to Madonna. I fail to see how other people's tastes somehow ruin your experience listening to other music. This of course excepts Hannah Montana. There is no excuse for that crap. |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 11:58
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"Popular music" has always been rubbish, that's why we seek out more fulfilling music, that's why we're on this forum. I spent most of the 80s trying to avoid Wham, Swing Out Sister, Matt Bianco, Curiosity Killed the Cat...
Don't get me wrong, even today there are a few diamonds hidden in the dirt (I'm not averse to Sugababes) but most of it is plastic, formulaic and disposable.
------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 12:03
I liken it to the age of the pin cushion kids. Hey, they told them to stick pins all over their bodies and draw on them to....ha ha ha ha ha. An aquired taste in the words of Gentle Giant. Look up Pavlov and do some research on the matter and you will find that we are indeed very manipulatable. Monkey see monkey do.
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Posted By: Hawkwise
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 12:43
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The results are skewed in favour of a minority. Yes this is true now more than ever Money is lavished on the Mainstream even though the Mainstream is the minority when it comes how much music is bought and listen to, anyone who really has any kind of interest in Music doesn't really take any interest what goes on in the mainstream of music , Charts are more meaningless now than they ever bean, only need to sale a few thousand records in the right store and there you are on Top of the charts its totally meaningless , But why be upset by it? just ignore it , any true fan of music will graduate towards more interesting and real music, The Mainstream Music scene (sic) has nothing really even to do with MUSIC it more about Advertising, Advertising has become a Huge industry all in its self and the Mainstream is all part of that , Just ignore it, it is a shame that there isn't more good music on the TV and Radio but there are good shows out there again you just have to search a little bit harder , and now with the wonderful internet there more music to search and find than ever before, search it find it ENJOY !!! I have never really understood music fans Moaning on and on and on on about how crap the Mainstream is , just ignore it as i do, Oh but what about the kids you cry !!! being forced fed this crap, well thats bullsh*t to Most Kidd's ignore the Mainstream crap to once there 11 or 12 there music taste soon start to mature, what about American Idle?etc etc all those crap talent shows you Cry, what about them since when was TV any good anyhow, and i am shore all the old Granny's sitting at home with there young Granddaughter love it, dont mean You Have to watch it or take any notice of it. The Mainstream is all about Advertising and MONEY, why bother yourself about it. ------------- 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 13:23
Look at the bright side, it just might drive some people to prog. 
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 13:28
It's already done that for at least one person. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 13:44
For once, me and Sacred22 agree completely.... Don't discard things just because you don't want them to be true... It has been proven scientifically by psychologists and psychiatrist how easy it is to manipulate... and in this case, remember: you're not being manipulated to like something, you're being manipulated to buy something.... It's all for money.... From the message that's being told within the videos themselves (be rich, spend in cars and "ho's") to the constant bombardment with shows that make you want to earn a quick buck so you can live like the "stars" (MTV Cribs????) to the generic music.....
Granted, if radios and MTV suddenly started airing nothing but prog, they would lose some audience.. yes... it's more complex and difficult to digest.. but it would gain SO MUCH popularity that the theory would be proven: lots of people just listen what they're being told to. ------------- 
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Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 14:35
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I avoid radio completely as even the "indie" or "alternative" channels play the watered-down, trite stuff that any Hollister regular can recite.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 15:59
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I don't see the use in fussing about how bad popular music is. I like my music, that's all that matters. Plus, the fact that my music is pretty esoteric makes it a bit more special. That's speculative, but I feel like if everyone I knew liked the same music, it wouldn't be as special. Of course we all don't want to be the same. Different people find satisfaction with different music. People who like to dance are obviously going to gravitate toward music that is meant to be danced to, which is generally simple music, for example. Most "good" music requires more focus and time, and not everybody places enough value on music to take the time to get into it. Sure, a lot of mainstream music is made to make money, and that is detestable, but there's nothing we can do about it that we aren't already doing. Sure, I'm going to refuse to listen to my brothers rap and metal music in my car most of the time, but if he wants to listen to that on his own time, if he's happy, great. ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph  
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Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 16:19
I've never seen the point of getting worked up about the 'manufactured' pop acts or those reality shows- that sort of stuff will never go away- it will always be there. A lot of pop wasn't so hot in the 70s or 80s either IMHO- indeed, I find watching 80s re-runs of Top Of The Pops particularly horrifying due to that awful syn-drum/programmed nightmare, the de rigeur Stock/Aitken/Waterman production team behind so many hits creating a formulaic sound and, lest we forget, the truly awful fashions. So let's not get too rose-tinted here!
The real problem for me and I stress in the UK, is the aforementioned 'indie' acts we have to put up with as somehow important over here- these are the only acts that get a look-in on the BBC 1's coverage of the UK festivals.
I was staggered that Last Shadow Puppets project that bloke out of The Arctic Monkeys cooked up with a bloke from another nondescript 'indie' act was compared to Scott Walker just because they put strings on it and they mentioned him in interviews a few times- had these people forgot Scott Walker was a fantastic vocalist and a genuinely daring, groundbreaking artist? I have literally not heard anything from the UK in years that has even been close to being innovative. I don't mean to sound snobby here but frankly, when in recent weeks The Kooks can get to Number 1 in the album charts and The Pigeon Detectives and The Fratellis end up in the Top 5 I don't hold out much hope for things changing!
Take this week's issue of the NME- it loudly proclaims that Scottish act Glasvegas are the best new band in Britain on its front cover. Now, I heard this lot earlier in the year and thought they sounded like The Proclaimers without the singalong choruses. If they are the best new band in Britain then we really are f*****!
There is some damned good stuff coming out of the American indie scene at present though, I might add- these acts actually sound like they have been exposed to more than just indie guitar groups or 70s punk. I have enjoyed the work of Yeasayer and Fleet Foxes in recent times for a start- indeed, I think prog fans would find much to like about Yeasayer. I suspect they might like UK band Elbow's latest album 'The Seldom Seen Kid' as well- they are not a new band though by any stretch, this is their 4th album.
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Posted By: jimmy_row
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 20:12
------------- Signature Writers Guild on strike |
Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 21:00
| I think Steven Wilson sums it up quite nicely in his song 'The Sound of Muzak' off of 'In Absentia' |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 23:47
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There's always been crap coming over the airwaves. It's just that it used to get mixed in with some decent stuff now and again. I don't listen to the radio anymore, so I'm not sure how bad it's gotten. But obviously when The Archies' Sugar Sugar was on the charts at the same time as some Beatles' single, this is not some new occurrence. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 00:09
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The more time goes on, the few qualitative differences I see between the different "eras" of radio music. People just forget all the horrible manufactured sh*t that was out in the '70s because it preserves our "memory" of it being a blissful golden age before these damn kids and their rap music. But of course, most of the people here like classic rock, too, so I'd be lynched for suggesting that More Than A Feeling and Back in Black are just as boring as many things out today...They're just better musicians because they couldn't rely on autotune.
I do have to agree with T, people are very easily manipulated. We are manipulated too, just in different ways. Don't think that you're too smart to be fooled...
Psh, who needs girls? COOTIES COOTIES COOTIES EMOTIONAL INTIMACY AHHHH!
Wooo, arbitrary limits! ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 02:40
The 1990s signal the death of music. Arbitrary limits? Only if I want to keep out awful modern noise. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 02:43
It's an arbitrary limit because you are refusing to listen to anything recorded after your cutoff. I guarantee that I could find at least one modern group that you would like a lot, but you'll never hear them because you don't want to. Closed mind, etc. etc., we've all heard it many times before. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 02:43
I like pre-89 artists who keep on keepin' on 
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 02:47
I meant actually modern bands, not old ones that carry on even though they probably should have quit years ago.
What a shame that after all those centuries music died 2 decades ago. It had such a good run! ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 02:47
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There's plenty of good music out there, I'm not saying there isn't.
What I'm getting at is that in the last few years the state of mainstream music has gotten considerably worse. I'm only 22. I remember my senior year of high school and the radio still played stuff like the White Stripes, Tool, old Red Hot Chili Peppers, the rap stations would play Jay-Z, Beastie Boys and even Go-Go (D.C. area specialty). Now only 4-5 years later there's not even a band or artist on the stations worth trying to find. As in the musics has gotten REALLY REALLY BAD. This isn't an old man's complaint of modern music. Yes there has been bad stuff in the mainstream throughout the ages, but none like today. I mean "Kung Fu Fighting" was an awful song. Yet it still had a melody that you could remember. It had memorable qualities despite its badness. Today the songs are without any catch, and are pretty much based on new slang terms which is even more stupid. Lil Wayne is the best rapper? The guy has the most nasally, forced sounding voice and he just blurts out random words. There isn't much style to his craft. Ghostface Killer already mastered something similar and better than that over a decade ago. |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 02:50
Amen to that, mate. |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 02:51
cedric bixler zavala ftw ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 02:55
Sure they do. Pocketful of Sunshine, Umbrella, and I Kissed A Girl are currently tormenting me because they are so abominably catchy.
False nostalgia is mostly what this thread is about. The state of the mainstream can change, but I don't think it has, at least not all that much.
*facepalm* ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:00
Trip-hop, Britpop, drum & bass, grunge, nu-metal, "alternative", post-grunge, boy bands, "indie"... and the list of deplorable post-89 styles goes on. Why not hearken back to an age without these abominations? |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:07
Because there's good music in all of those (well not really post-grunge and nu-metal, and boy bands is not a genre) and you're just being cranky by unilaterally declaring music "dead"? How is that even substantially different from disco and crap on any sort of "objective" level? For that matter, what does it even matter that some things are popluar?
DnB is awesome, by the way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PBeKzVhWHY - SNARES BABY! ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:12
For a second, you had me going. And then...
 Unlistenable modern foolishness based on a beat performed in the late 60s. Go figure. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:16
Well no, I don't expect to actually get you to stop being stuck in the past, I'm only doing this for my own amusement. Unless I could actually drag up some modern prog, but because my taste in prog is obviously much different from yours, I don't want to waste time trying to do that. I'll leave it to someone who cares about modern symph.
Richard D James stole his music from people in the '60s? That's news to me. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:19
| See the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SaFTm2bcac - Amen Break . Modern 'artists' stealing? No surprise there. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:31
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Yes, art died on your cut off date... That is interesting, I hadn't heard of that before, somehow. How can you count it as stealing or even being "based on" when it's just the same drum sound with a completely different ryhthm? It's not like the end product sounds anything like the original. And RDJ and Co. also used drum machines. Everyone is influenced by something. And he clearly really hates DnB so it's hard for me to take him incredibly seriously--How dare they make something that's not danceable! It's just w**king!
By the way, I do agree that a lot of DnB sounds too similar to each other, but that's true of any genre. And why you only listen to the good ones. ;-) ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:38
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Like, say, David Bowie
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:39
Letterman used to have some really good artists on his show (SNL too), but the last few years it's been mostly crud, tonight it was the Baseball Project  |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:57
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Sure. ;-)
I've actually just skimmed through my Aphex Twin collection, and I didn't here it because RDJ uses his own drum machines. So there! This is obviously less true for Squarepusher, though. Thanks for the link, and while I wish he had talked faster, that was very interesting. Especially since he comes down on the side of sampling at the end. I suppose that the original had its roots in jazz/gospel too, so it's an endless chain backwards.
Some of those samples aren't even trying. But IDM/DnB isn't stealing! ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: darren
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 07:57
I agree. I cannot understand these people who praise 70's music as if there was no bad music around. There was just as much, if not more, bad music in the 70's as there was in the 80's or anytime. For whatever reason, many tend to conveniently filter out crap like Shawn Cassidy, The Partridge Family and Debbie Boone.
When people start praising 70's music, I like to mention "Disco Duck" (and the follow up "Discorilla"), "Convoy", "Midnight At The Oasis" and "Afternoon Delight".
Well, I digress but there's a lot of great music out there as there has always been at any time in the last many years, you just have to be willing to avoid the mainstream and find it.
------------- "they locked up a man who wanted to rule the world. the fools they locked up the wrong man." - Leonard Cohen |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 09:56
Thing is, even when keeping the well documented "nostalgia filter" in mind I still feel music is worse off than it was 30 years ago. The good stuff being made today is there, but it is generally much harder to find, and when new bands try to play in an old style they are usually so obsessed with being retro that they fail at bringing anything new to the table. It doesn't help that retro rock has become a fad, which means lots of glorified cover bands get record deals. (noticed that the only good retro bands are those who started before it became popular, like Electric Wizard and Monster Magnet?) Another part of the problem is... well, not as much grunge as the reaction to grunge - way, way too many people heard something like Nevermind and thought that was the only way good rock music could sound. The results? It's somehow become possible to market extremely formulaic and bland music as "alternative" and expect people to buy it, most people refuse to take prog-rock and metal seriously, boring grey stuff is the average idea of what serious meaningful music is... no wonder Kurt Cobain committed suicide. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: T.Rox
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 10:52
Except for the LRB track, which came on the eponymous LRB album with the supurb eight-minute plus version of It's A Long Way There, one only feined appreciation for these groups to impress the girls. The chicks never did dig my music collection because there was never any of that stuff to be found when they looked through it! (And my wife hates most of my music, so nothing has changed.)
------------- "Without prog, life would be a mistake." ...with apologies to Friedrich Nietzsche |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 10:53
People never took prog and metal seriously. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: artmyxolydian
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 12:27
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When music ceases to be a art form it will become awful eventually. There has to be a musical statement. How can Coldplay be such a big band? |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 14:16
Well, metal's never ever had it easy but it's difficult not to get the impression that more people (who weren't dedicated fans of those two genres) still took them seriously before grunge became popular than is the case after. Observe: In the seventies, you had Yes and Pink Floyd and even Hawkwind pretty high up on the sales top 40 while the Church of England felt seriously threatened by Black Sabbath. In the eighties, a prog supergroup like Asia could become a commercial success - and the establishment was more terrified by metal than ever before. Today, prog rock is seen as something only nerds listen to and people who don't like metal just laugh at it instead of fearing it. (and remember, fear implies respect) Why? Because grunge has usurped prog's place as the definition of intelligent rock and metal's place as the definition of angry young man rock. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 15:29
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I'm not sure about that- the genre 'grunge' seems to me to be pretty much dead, save for Pearl Jam who are still plodding on (who I always found one of the most boring bands in the world!!). Its main influence that I can hear is on horrible bands like Nickelback and Puddle Of Mudd who diluted the original grunge sound. I quite liked Nirvana and Soundgarden though.
I see a lot of hip US 'indie rock' acts namecheck prog acts as being personally inspirational to them in some way. The tag itself is something of an albatross, though.
I often encounter a lot of snobbery aimed at metal though, yes- The Guardian's music blog (which I usually loathe with a vengeance- full of 'right on' old Melody Maker/NME hacks exposing their prejudices time and time again) had a great piece which delved into this. It showed that whilst in recent years there was a lot of begrudging acclaim for albums by bands like Mastodon or even the more 'prog' ones like Opeth and Porcupine Tree, none of their albums featured in any of the 'best albums of the year' poll in any of the major UK magazines or newspapers. It was clear to see there was a definite snobbery- I would argue the UK is the worst place in the world for this snobbery towards certain genres.
|
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 15:30
You a communist or something? |
Posted By: mithrandir
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 15:47
| seriously, how have the terms "grunge" and "alternative" survived this long? they have no meaning in todays music, at the time, like 1991 it meant "Music that aint soundin' like Winger, Warrant or latter era Boston," But that label got meaningless quick after everyone trended to the 90s haircuts and anyone including sheryl crow and her grandmother were considered "alternative" |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 15:51
| Well, some of those 'hair metal' acts made feeble attempts at going 'grunge'/'alternative' which actually made them less popular rather than more popular- there's a nostalgia market for those acts but only as a live entity and there don't seem to be too many newer acts carrying the baton of 'hair metal' either! |
Posted By: mithrandir
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 15:55
and thank goodness for that! |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 16:00
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don't we have anything better to do?  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 16:05
It would be hard to be more right than Plainview on this one. -------------  <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 16:17
No. ------------- 
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Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 16:39
Just a fan of real music, not new music. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 16:45
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^Oh, because harmony, melody, rhythm, structure, timbre and texture just suddenly vanished from new music?
-------------
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Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 16:50
 You know that there is an on/off button on your radio. There are also devices like cd and mp3 players, so you can make your own little radio station. And that TV thingy, also has an on/off and channel changing button. Whoa, ain't technology great. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 16:53
Enlarged for truth. -------------
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Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 16:55
| Thank goodness for those filters. Otherwise, we'd be bombarded with a whole lot of troublesome modern noise. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 16:55
I'll try that one day!
You think YOU know all the junk music of today!!?? You're WRONG! Stay one day here in Argentina or some other countries of South America, and here we have a music called CUMBIA, REGGAETON(nothing to do with Reggae). It's sh*t!!!! All my friends love it!! We use that to dance!?!?! 
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Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 16:57
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I can't believe people fall for Walter's shtick every time. ;P ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 16:59
Try living sandwiched between Southern California and Northern Mexico. You get the worst of both zones! Sometimes at the same time! |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 17:26
Grunge might be pretty much faded out right now, but its negative effects seem more or less irreversible. It's a pity that out of the styles it spawned, it was the generic mope-rock and not the modernized acid rock that got really popular. 
I don't hate grunge either... I just don't like what the music industry did to it and used it for, like as a template for which to turn the entire "alternative music" into a mass-market niche - the entire idea of what I described is so wretched that it's not even funny.
Even then, Mastodon I think are the epitome of the a band aimed at "generically alternative" people. You'll notice that a lot of real metalheads don't listen to them, and that's for a good reason. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 19:38
I agree on cumbia and reggaeton, but also in the "sandwich" theory... Add "musica grupera" (tex-mex or whatever it's called) and you really have the trinity of -------------
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Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 19:52
Don't remind me |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 20:34
Nah, ephemera is always worth wasting time over. Which reminds me, why aren't there any NEW Krautrock groups ? Is there a reason that the music industry is not churning out more Proto-Prog bands ? When raving about certain groups, could I use a term like "they are one of the top three Prog Related bands in the world today" ? If an Extreme/Tech metal band re-recorded an old Krautrock album, and an old Krautrock group covered a current Extreme/Tech Metal release, would anyone be able to determine which genre to label either with, or more distressing, what critical terms could you use to diss the one you don't like ? Would you know which one you like ? P.S. It all sounds like "Nobody likes us", "Everyone else but us has any no taste" all over again, and again, and again etc .............................................................  ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 21:11
What if Meshuggah went back in time, assassinated Tangerine Dream and took their place to play songs that sounded like AC/DC? What if their albums were produced by Hitler?
The persecution complex some people on this forum have about prog is baffling. I've never met anyone who dislikes someone because they like "weird" music--yet we appear to dislike ardent pop fans because they are "mindless sheep". I've never met someone who isn't willing to give prog or whatever a shot, and they usually like at least some of it, despite all our strident claims of "inaccessibility"--yet did we listen to Kanye's new album?
I try not to assume people are trolling. It improves the discussion. ;-)
Sadly, some of us do not have that luxury while at work.
I think that's more because people realized that being afraid of a music genre is ridiculous. And if they do still want to be afraid, everyone has rap to hate now. Also, I'm going to say right now that, even though it annoys the hell out of me, as a pop song, Pocketful of Sunshine is better than Kung Fu Fighting, to whomever it was who was trying to defend that song. Sunshine was stuck in my head after hearing it once, therefore it succeeded. Kung Fu Fighting is just ridiculous crap. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 03:37
There probably are, but you have to search long to find them. I actually have the feeling that when a krautrock revival happens we'll kinda regret wishing for it, because most of the resulting neo-kraut bands won't be worth listening to. (at least if the other waves of retro music are any indication)
Yes. The music industry is run by idiots.  ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 03:46
... and that annoys me too, rap and punk are still seen as legitimate form of subversive art even by people who don't like it - no, especially by people who don't like it (here in Denmark, conservatives are every bit as terrified by punk rockers as they were in the eighties!) - but metal's seen as a mildly amusing antiquity. To be fair, though, it seems like the Danish punk scene is much more dedicated to its principles than in the US, where I've heard punk is totally overran by Johnny-come-latelies who don't really understand it. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 05:33
Please, PLEASE someone unban Karn Evil 9 and introduce him to Walter! Or at least dig for his posts - you two would get along just fine - oh wait, you wouldn't |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 12:04
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Who was this Karn Evil 9 person? Either my memory's rusty or I wasn't around for him.
------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 15:40
LRB never made it to the Republic of Methil. But Go West, Five Star, The Reynolds Girls and Rick Astley did. There was NO WAY I was going to feign appreciation of them! ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 17:20
No, you weren't around here back then. Actually it was Karnevil9, without the spaces (there was also a different member called Karn Evil 9). I've just done a search, and it seems he got all his posts deleted, tough luck. Basically he was the second biggest ELP fan ever, hated CDs, but first and foremost, he was the 'music ended in '73' - man. Though I think he made one exception for an early '80s album, don't remember which one now. |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 20:33
| Sounds like nice guy. So long as he keeps away from the post-89 stuff, its all good. |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 04:46
"Music ended in '73"... isn't that basically Homer Simpson's opinion on music? ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 05:15
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^
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Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 05:34
Homer had something like "Music achieved perfection in 1974." |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 10:19
Actually, more like Rock music achieved perfection in 1974. I think it was after Bad Company's debut album, or BTO's ... I'm not sure. That's when you saw all those classic hard rock bands come out - AC/DC, Aerosmith, Kiss, Foghat, Boston, Van Halen, ZZ Top, and many others. After the prog halcyon days though ('69-'75 roughly) it took another half decade for it to start renewing itself and build up to today's prog lovers dream, i.e. PA and the knowledge of the breadth and quality of the progressive genres, current and "ancient". ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 12:53
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When did Jefferson Airplane become Starship........ When did the term AOR first get used. Rumours???? ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: June 24 2008 at 11:23
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AOR wasn't or isn't all bad music. Why blame Boston for REO Speedwagon's High Infidelity ? Is it possible that Foreigner didn't set out to give birth to groups like Survivor or Loverboy ? In both cases, Boston & Foreigner, their debut albums stand among the best rock albums of all time. That both lost it pretty fast is debatable ( I think they did), but neither band got together to play music as a business proposition. That their music went on to become the epitome of commercial rock is not their fault. Oops, forgot to ask whether AOR stands for Adult Oriented rock or Album Oriented rock, two different beast. Album O was a good concept - playing something else than the hit singles. Or it was until it came to mean playing the same 2-3 songs from the album. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: June 24 2008 at 11:53
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I keep confusing the terms "AOR" and "arena rock" with each other. Don't those two categories overlap?
------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: June 25 2008 at 00:29
But if everyone died on 1973 we wouldn't have http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMgDH-qE-3E - Alfred Schnittke !
Well metal killed itself by being so damn silly. Nobody can be afraid of Dragonforce or Disturbed because it's impossible for any adult to take them seriously. The face of modern popular punk is Greenday's American Idiot, Blink-182, My Chemical Romance, and Fallout Boy, so yes, it's become more pop than anything else. "Real" punk still exists, I'm sure, but it's not on the radio. I am having difficulty reconciling people still being afraid of any music genre in Denmark, when bestiality is legal there. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: June 25 2008 at 02:58
Dragonforce are unusually tongue-in-cheek and Disturbed aren't really metal, so I'd say neither band is that good a representation of the genre.
Well, in Denmark the punk subculture is a great deal more insular and dedicated to its principles than I guess it is in most other countries, mostly because here punk's quite inseparably connected to the squatter movement. I'm certain most of those squatterpunks don't think highly of Green Day or Blink 182... and I've never, ever heard MCR and Fallout Boy called punk. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: June 25 2008 at 04:07
I think Disturbed are metal, and Allmusic agrees. Not super heavy metal, but close enough. Dragonforce may be trying to be that cheesy, but most heavy metal is about as equally ridiculous.
That's because you're in Denmark. Sum 41 and Rancid have been better choices for xHardcorex, though, and Offspring for something that's more popular. I think both MCR and Fallout Boy are pretty clearly pop-punk, just with horrible emo/Queen overtones, and allmusic agrees with me. Pop-punk is just a horrible, horrible genre. But what else can you expect from something influenced by post-grunge? ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: June 25 2008 at 11:36
Go to a metal forum (ie. a site that actually knows its metal) - and I assure you that the amount of people you'll find thinking of Disturbing as metal can be counted on one hand.
Eh... when a genre of music is this inherently theatrical and over-the-top, some unintentional goofiness is more or less inevitable. Punk, for example, is just as willfullly garish - especially those bands who have some actual substance to them - and is also ideologically very closely aligned with metal even if there are a few big differences there. However, it gets nowhere as much snobbery thrown its way. And, hey, even if those two genres get a bit ridiculous on occasion, they're still by far preferable to the gentrified wasteland of boredom that is modern rock. (here I'm not thinking of today's prog as much as of the stuff marketed as "alternative" when it's anything but, and your stereotypical indie band )So as a fan of metal I've stopped worrying about "cheesiness", which by the way http://www.metal-rules.com/hell/ - is an awfully subjective term .
Now that you mentioned post-grunge... I really hate it when movements are named "post-(insert word here", it's just so lazy. I blame post-modernism, which itself is just shorthand for repeating things Nietzsche already said while presenting it as something new and groundbreaking. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: June 25 2008 at 11:51
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fear not lasses and lads, for the movie market is faring far worse: http://youtube.com/watch?v=AonDp03udhg - http://youtube.com/watch?v=AoNDp03udhg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQw5DLWXVEs - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQw5DLWXVEs to be crass, we're f**ked ------------- 
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Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: June 25 2008 at 12:04
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The first thing I thought when I had finished watching the trailer for Disaster Movie was "is it just me, or are most of the movies parodied not actually disaster movies?"...
------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |