The Who are here.....Who? - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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The Whistler View Drop Down

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Posted: July 22 2007 at 02:00

Favorite for "complexity," or favorite off the album?

"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson

Tony R

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Posted: July 22 2007 at 08:23

schizoid_man77 wrote:

Well, The Who arent realy on the top of the list either!

I really cant name a prog band that has taken influence from the who that you can hear in the muzac

And besides the underture, there is only two other songs that I knw of that hit the six minete mark!

Rush were heavily influenced by The Who. I can even hear The Who on Moving Pictures...especially Red Barchetta.

They are an obvious addition, probably the least controversial in real terms of any of the recent proto/prog-related additions.

micky

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Posted: July 22 2007 at 09:42

schizoid_man77 wrote:

micky wrote:

schizoid_man77 wrote:

Crap, I have always agreed with the admin. here, but this makes no sense! The who, show no influence in any bands and besides concept albums, I really see no prog in them at all!

it makes perfect sense I'm afraid... read the bio. I make the case... what exactly do you disagree with?

How does it make sense?

Pete townshend cant solo for his life

Daltrey while he is a great singer, he never seems to try and push the limit of his capabilities

Keith Moon, a phenominal and grounbraking drummer, but I seriously doubt he could drum in 6/8 because: A) I'm sure every song is in 4/4, so he has no idea what 6/8 is. B) Too drunk to even play 4/4 half the time

John Entwistle- Amazing Bass player, probably the most capable an with the most potential, no dirt on him

Listen I love the Who, but they are basically anti prog,

AND YES, I have 3 albums and quite a few compilations! SO DONT TELL ME TO LISTEN TO ANYTHING!

see you've already had a discussion with David, but let me elaborate a few points...

first off I didn't tell you to LISTEN to anything...I asked you to read the bio and tell me what is wrong with it.

Your viewpoint here, and later on in the thread is one of a narrow view of prog. Prog has never been solely about song length and metric complexity. If that is how you judge prog, you will never agree with The Who or other groups here, but you are free to see prog as you wish. However you'll miss the whole point about what prog was about. Those things you mentioned, are byproducts of prog... not what makes prog... prog.

The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Blacksword View Drop Down

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Posted: July 22 2007 at 11:14

Good to see them here at last!

progismylife View Drop Down

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Posted: July 22 2007 at 11:18

Schizoid...we never said The Who were prog....we said it influenced prog,

for example: Chris Squire's bass playing is mainly influenced by Entwistle's bass playing.

Greg W

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Posted: July 22 2007 at 11:31

Well I made my arguments a long time ago about the Beatles. I thought it set a dangerous precedent for many undeserving bands to show up here in the archives and from I see, I must say I was absolutely correct(as usual) in thinking so.

....but now that it's done , I really don't think think The Who being added here is any worse than ELO,Deep Purple, Blue Oyster Cult, Led Zeppelin and so on...

To read that the creator of this thread feels only the 60's warranted mentioning, I must ask "What about Quadropenia?"

I have always thought their early 70's output was a better example of Proto Prog or Prog Related than their 60's marerial.

Anyways, they are here, and I suppose why not? As Tony R said...Rush sounds just like them.

moonlapse

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Posted: July 22 2007 at 12:55

Greg W wrote:

Well I made my arguments a long time ago about the Beatles. I thought it set a dangerous precedent for many undeserving bands to show up here in the archives and from I see, I must say I was absolutely correct(as usual) in thinking so.

....but now that it's done , I really don't think think The Who being added here is any worse than ELO,Deep Purple, Blue Oyster Cult, Led Zeppelin and so on...

Yeah. The floodgates are open all right.

Haven't been here in a while, and I see reviews of The Who and The Doors on the front page.

Heh - I think this place has flipped its lid LOL

If The Who or The Doors or any of these other bands really had anything to do with prog, why did it take so long for them to be added?

Jimi Hendrix was prog too. The Airplane. The Dead. Black Oak Arkansas and Jim Dandy! You name it, they're prog baby!

Snow Dog

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Posted: July 22 2007 at 13:25

Tony R wrote:

schizoid_man77 wrote:

Well, The Who arent realy on the top of the list either!

I really cant name a prog band that has taken influence from the who that you can hear in the muzac

And besides the underture, there is only two other songs that I knw of that hit the six minete mark!

Rush sound like The Who?

Tcah!

Anyaway,,,The Who are here...shame really, this site is starting to suck.

Edited by Snow Dog - July 22 2007 at 13:29

Samir

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Posted: July 22 2007 at 13:28

Great band i guess they influenced prog in some way, but i believe this site is becoming less progressive than ever, i saw Blind Guardian here, funny.

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: July 22 2007 at 13:29

The Whistler wrote:

Schizo, might I suggest that you screw Tommy and go straight for the Quad? The songs tend to be longer (barring the over-and-underture), and they're fairly layered. Sometimes complex even. And I think you need to remember that Townshead is just as pretentious as all the young dudes who play "real" prog.

I agree and that's my main problem, in their early stages The Who were a Mod band, aggressive, close to the roots of Rock & Roll, etc, if they were something they were Proto Punk.

Pete Townshend in "The Kids are Alright" says clearly that when they added Pinball Wizard to Tommy, the album ceased to be a Rock Opera and more a Pop Opera".

If we are going to add bands that influenced Prog but not exclusively, lets add Chuck Berry or Little Richard,...Who can deny this two musicians influenced EVRYTHING after them much more than The Who?

What about The Rolling Stones? Who can deny they influenced later bands or that Their Satanic majesties Request is a cornerstone of Prog Psyche?

The list of barely Prog bands mentioned is endless, but in the meanwhile the Art Rock team is strugling to check really Prog bands and find them a new home because nobody wants them, while we try to help them but of course it's not much we can do because we have our own business.

We know that is hard, tedious and very tiresome because we did it, and they will receive critics as we did in our moment, but they are doing a real work for Prog.

So while a group of members break their b@lls checking hundreed of Prog bands with a bit of help, the site keeps adding non Prog bands as if it was the main goal.

Then we will have to ask all Punk pages to retire The Who because they claim this band is the greatest influence for Punk.

Another contradiction, the closest The Who came to Prog was in Quadrophenia nad that's in October 19, 1973, so they can't be in Proto Prog, they should be in Prog Related, despite calling The Whi}o related to anything is almost a discredit for them who are icons of Classic Rock.

But they are here, we can't do a thing, hope we start to care more about real Prog bands than about bands that could or could not have influenced Prog, because if we open the gates we could have a flood of POP.

Now I have another problem, I'm a fan of The Who and IMHO "Who''s Next" is one of the top 10 albums of all times, but I can't rate it with more than 3 stars. because as everybody has posted before, they are not a Prog band, and for that reason they can't be an: ESSENTIAL MASTERPIECE OF PROGRESSIVE MUSIC NEITHER AN EXCELLENT ADDITION TO ANY PROG MUSIC COLLECTION.

In a classic Rock site I will give this album 5 or 10 stars if possible, here I'm restrained to 3 stars Good but not Essential, because nobody sane can claim this album is essential for Prog.

But they are here, sadly the sky is not the limit, only three weak stars.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 22 2007 at 15:22

bhikkhu

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Posted: July 22 2007 at 14:01

This may be the lat time I ever post about a proto, or related addition. I would like to say it will be the last, but the future hasn't happened yet.

We spend way too much time over these bands that everyone has heard so much, they can recite every lyric. Maybe they belong here, maybe not. That's not the point. As Ivan said, there are those of us that work very hard on actual prog bands. The list of new submissions never disappears. What happened to the element of discovery? I love the Who, but I've been inundated by them since I was a kid. There are great new artists, and old undiscovered gems to be found. However, we who work with these seem to be in a very small club. While the bulk of the membership argues about The Who being here, and getting Cream in next, we are looking at someone like Laurent Thibault (former member of Magma), or Anton Roolaart (who happens to be a member).

Let's get back to the true purpose of the site, promoting the genre we love.

a.k.a. H.T.

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Dim

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Posted: July 22 2007 at 14:20

For once I am agreeing with Ivan

EVERY SINGLE thing he said is true!

I will never rate a non prog band anything higher than a three, I have already stated that on a couple of my reviews!

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: July 22 2007 at 15:39

progismylife wrote:

Schizoid...we never said The Who were prog....we said it influenced prog,

for example: Chris Squire's bass playing is mainly influenced by Entwistle's bass playing.

Yes, explain that to the newbie who comes to PROG ARCHIVES to search for PROG MUSIC and finds ten reviews of THE WHO in the front page.

The first thing they will think is "Hey, the Who are a Prog band" you may try to explain him they are not Prog but influential, but they won't understand, specially if they know My Generation or See Me Feel Me.

Now imagine the real PROGHEAD that comes to PROG ARCHIVES to search for PROG BANDS and finds the same ten reviews about THE WHO, he knows THE WHO are not PROG, so he will simply leave to search the Proggnosis, Progressive Ears or GEPR database.

In any case we are not educating anybody, we're confusing the newbie and loosing some progheads.

But everybody member has it's own priority, as HT, I will avoid Proto Prog and Prog Related additions, but first will make a campaign to move Peter Gabriel from Prog Related, such an influential musician for Prog doesn't deserve to be lumped with ASIA, Be Bop Deluxe or Super Furry Animals.

Iván

Easy Livin View Drop Down

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Posted: July 22 2007 at 15:53

It's true that the front page will probably have plenty of Who reviews for a short while. The same happened with The Beatles, Radiohead, Led Zeppelin and many other controversial additions.

The initial flood subsides very quickly though, we see very few new reviews of those bands now.

I have been surprised how few Who reviews there have been so far.

micky

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Posted: July 22 2007 at 15:55

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Yes, explain that to the newbie who comes to PROG ARCHIVES to search for PROG MUSIC and finds ten reviews of THE WHO in the front page.

In any case we are not educating anybody, we're confusing the newbie and loosing some progheads.

Iván

hahahha.. and just who the hell decides what is prog Ivan... you? It is a collaborative site, and the site reflects the diverse views here. If people don't agree, they are free to find a site that reflects their narrow view of prog.

the owners and admins think differently as far as educating... we provide the info and let people make up there own minds.

As far as Gabriel.....the AR team has been considering moving Gabriel and others for some time now. We discussed it months ago and put it on hold. When art rock is reorganized, we proposed moving artists from PR that simply don't belong there.

The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Syzygy

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Posted: July 22 2007 at 15:56

Tony R wrote:

schizoid_man77 wrote:

Well, The Who arent realy on the top of the list either!

I really cant name a prog band that has taken influence from the who that you can hear in the muzac

And besides the underture, there is only two other songs that I knw of that hit the six minete mark!

They were also an influence on RIO/Avant prog. Chris Cutler, Charles Hayward and Dave Smith (Guapo) have all cited The Who as influential, partly for Moon's drumming but also for the way that the early singles like My Generation and Anyway, Anywhere, Anyhow incorporated passages of almost pure avant noise.

If anybody has any serious problems with The Who, listen to Who's Next; easily the closest they came to prog, with long songs, lush keyboard/synth sounds and even the remains of Pete Townsend's Lifehouse concept holding it all together.

'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom

Ricochet

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Posted: July 22 2007 at 16:00

I guess they innovated something about the ARP Synthesizer in their two tracks from "Who Next". ALthough if you say that and you also say something like "forget about the Berlin School of electronic movement ever having even planned to use something like that, at that time" (like I've read in a review), you plain ignorant to what was "rumbling" in progressive electronic, at "that time". Ermm

micky

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Posted: July 22 2007 at 16:02

bhikkhu wrote:

This may be the lat time I ever post about a proto, or related addition. I would like to say it will be the last, but the future hasn't happened yet.

We spend way too much time over these bands that everyone has heard so much, they can recite every lyric. Maybe they belong here, maybe not. That's not the point. As Ivan said, there are those of us that work very hard on actual prog bands. The list of new submissions never disappears. What happened to the element of discovery? I love the Who, but I've been inundated by them since I was a kid. There are great new artists, and old undiscovered gems to be found. However, we who work with these seem to be in a very small club. While the bulk of the membership argues about The Who being here, and getting Cream in next, we are looking at someone like Laurent Thibault (former member of Magma), or Anton Roolaart (who happens to be a member).

Let's get back to the true purpose of the site, promoting the genre we love.

that is the funny thing I don't understand HT... just who spends just how much time on these bands. The Who for example were proposed months ago by me, and not pushed until the admins asked whether they should take a vote on it.

That kind of talk is what burns peoples asses.... look at how many prog groups Raff added to this site, yet she adds some groups that are are PR and she gets accused of doing nothing but pushing her favorite bands. Honestly HT the other thing that is wasted here is all the bitching about the PP/PR addtions.... the last one was months ago.. when BOC was added. How many prog bands have been added since then....

The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

micky

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Posted: July 22 2007 at 16:11

Easy Livin wrote:

It's true that the front page will probably have plenty of Who reviews for a short while. The same happened with The Beatles, Radiohead, Led Zeppelin and many other controversial additions.

The initial flood subsides very quickly though, we see very few new reviews of those bands now.

I have been surprised how few Who reviews there have been so far.

I only had time time to add the first 3 last night and have been busy today, don't think the 'popular' albums have been added yet. LOL

The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: July 22 2007 at 16:18

micky wrote:

hahahha.. and just who the hell decides what is prog Ivan... you? It is a collaborative site, and the site reflects the diverse views here. If people don't agree, they are free to find a site that reflects their narrow view of prog.

Even the supporters of the Who addition agree THE WHO ARE NOT PROG, they are influential to everything, so it's not my point of view.

But who cares, while some people priorize adding their favorite non Prog band to Prog Related and Proto Prog, we´ll keep adding real Prog bands to Symphonic.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 22 2007 at 16:19