The Future of Prog

...only this time, "Hippies" will be rebranded "Terrorists" or "Subversive Communists" - or maybe even "Enemies of the State"...

Just a thought

From recent interviews with Peter Gabriel it would seem that at least he had a clear definition of Genesis as a prog band at the time. I don't know what Phil Collins thought he was doing,though. Probably thought: "Hey,I'm much better at playing drums than I am at acting. Allright,I'll do that then". That sounds about the level of his musical commitment.

If Radiohead is the hope for a brighter future of Prog Rock then Prog Rock will die ! Music will be around and some folks will listen to "art-rock" in whatever form it comes. As for us Die-Hard Prog fans.....we are doomed to listen to Eminem, Mariah Carey and Mrs Spears in our white padded rooms, wearing straight-jackets so we cant change the stations on the dial. But dont worry; we'll have 3 doses of heavy sedations a day ! And please mamma take these white coated men away and leave me alone ! ! !

________

Lunar  

^ Ha! Good one, Lunar! A fate worse than death, indeed!

 

Makes my "death by tiger shark or tiger" question pale in comparison....

Prog will never have a future. Prog is dead. Prog never even had a past other than a few weirdos such as yourselves who would give them a chance.....you lunatics you!!!

MUH,HA,HA,HA!

 

 

just kidding

Certif1ed wrote:

I'm not even sure that "Trespass" was created with the intention of being "prog", just more of the "nice music" but a bit rockier.

Oh come on!!!!!, Trespass just one more of the nice music?

I don't know what album you are describing because Trespass is one of the most dark, obscure and mysterious albums Genesis even released, White Mountain is a masterpiece, The Knife, well, what can I say it's the limit between Prog' and hard rock with absolutely inteligent lyrics, Looking for Someone and Dusk are great tracks, Stagnation is inspiring, I don't find a single nice song.

Trespass is the most drastic change a band ever had, from a bunch of kids searching a hit single (misguided by Jonathan King) to a bunch of kids doing great and serious music.

Radiohead can only dream with doing an album 50% as inventive and good as Trespass.

I'm wondering at what point Genesis themselves considered themselves to be a prog band

I don't know either, but they were progressive since Trespass until W&W and that's evident, people and bands are what they are not what they consider they are.

Ian Anderson still says Jethro Tull was never progressive and everybody else in the world considers them prog'. And please let's not believe what Mr. Collins says, he is the same guy that recorded soundtracks for Disney and recorded a track with N'Sync.

At least, unlike Genesis and some prog bands I could mention, Radiohead stick true to the higher ideals and re-invent their music with the "pure" intention of creating new music - not simply to earn even more shedloads of moolah.

Please, what are you talking about? Do you read musical history?

Genesis members during the Gabriel years were almost starving, they had to give as most concerts as posible in Italy just to barely survive because theycouldn't sell 200 tickets in London, and they didn't cared, they kept reinventing their music from album to album, they even released the ultra complex The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway despite the fact that it was too complex to be understood by 99% of the people.

The last concert with Peter Gabriel had to be cancelled (Not sure if it was in Toullouse) because of lack of interest, Mr. Peter Gabriel after he left Genesis broke in his effort with the WOMAD, a musical success but an economic disaster.

So if you don't think this is re-inventing their music with the "pure" intention of creating new music, I don't understand you.

What Mr Collins and this two session musicians (Banks and Rutherford) did after W&W is another thing, that is not Genesis, they should have changed the name of the band, but I assume when we talk in this forum about Genesis we talk about the lapse between Trespass and W&W.

Iván

Edited by ivan_2068

ivan_2068 wrote: Certif1ed wrote: I'm not even sure that "Trespass" was created with the intention of being "prog", just more of the "nice music" but a bit rockier. Oh come on!!!!!, Trespass just one more of the nice music? It follows on very well - yes, it's darker, but there was darker to come... I don't know what album you are describing because Trespass is one of the most dark, obscure and mysterious albums Genesis even released, White Mountain is a masterpiece, The Knife, well, what can I say it's the limit between Prog' and hard rock with absolutely inteligent lyrics, Looking for Someone and Dusk are great tracks, Stagnation is inspiring, I don't find a single nice song. I like it all - I think it's nice... Trespass is the most drastic change a band ever had, from a bunch of kids searching a hit single (misguided by Jonathan King) to a bunch of kids doing great and serious music. Radiohead can only dream with doing an album 50% as inventive and good as Trespass. In your opinion... I'm wondering at what point Genesis themselves considered themselves to be a prog band I don't know either, but they were progressive since Trespass until W&W and that's evident, people and bands are what they are not what they consider they are. You miss my point entirely by re-asserting it!!!  Ian Anderson still says Jethro Tull was never progressive and everybody else in the world considers them prog'. And please let's not believe what Mr. Collins says, he is the same guy that recorded soundtracks for Disney and recorded a track with N'Sync. At least, unlike Genesis and some prog bands I could mention, Radiohead stick true to the higher ideals and re-invent their music with the "pure" intention of creating new music - not simply to earn even more shedloads of moolah. Please, what are you talking about? Do you read musical history? Of course!!! That is part of what I hold "Certif1cations" in!!! Does this really need explaining? Genesis members during the Gabriel years were almost starving, they had to give as most concerts as posible in Italy just to barely survive because theycouldn't sell 200 tickets in London, and they didn't cared, they kept reinventing their music from album to album, they even released the ultra complex The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway despite the fact that it was too complex to be understood by 99% of the people. Point missed again... The last concert with Peter Gabriel had to be cancelled (Not sure if it was in Toullouse) because of lack of interest, Mr. Peter Gabriel after he left Genesis broke in his effort with the WOMAD, a musical success but an economic disaster. So if you don't think this is re-inventing their music with the "pure" intention of creating new music, I don't understand you. What Mr Collins and this two session musicians (Banks and Rutherford) did after W&W is another thing, that is not Genesis, they should have changed the name of the band, but I assume when we talk in this forum about Genesis we talk about the lapse between Trespass and W&W. "Assume" made an "Ass" out of "U" and "Me". Iván

You appear to have missed most of my points, Ivan - which is rare for you, as you are normally totally on the ball.

Certif1ed wrote:

You appear to have missed most of my points, Ivan - which is rare for you, as you are normally totally on the ball.

 

Well Certif1ed, thank you for your comments about that I'm normally totally on the ball, what is not always true because as everyone I make mistakes, in this case I only answered specific phrases you mentioned:

 

1.- You did compared Genesis with Radiohead and even implied Genesis didn't stick true to the higher ideals and re-invent their music with the "pure" intention of creating new music.

 

Quote: At least, unlike Genesis and some prog bands I could mention, Radiohead stick true to the higher ideals and re-invent their music with the "pure" intention of creating new music - not simply to earn even more shedloads of moolah.

 

I only answered what I think about Genesis, at least during the progressive era of Genesis, because as everyone knows I can't care less about the 3 - men era..

 

2.- You also said Trespass is only more of the nice music,

 

Quote: I'm not even sure that "Trespass" was created with the intention of being "prog", just more of the "nice music" but a bit rockier.

 

Again I told you my perspective about this point.

 

3.- Also you said you didn’t knew when Genesis started to considered themselves progressive:

I'm wondering at what point Genesis themselves considered themselves to be a prog band.

Again I answered that I don’t believe it matters at all, because they were progressive since Trespass despite what they believed.

Maybe I missed your global intention and point, but I only replied specific phrases and comparisons  with specific answers. 

Hope I didn't miss the point again.

Iván

Edited by ivan_2068

Certif1ed wrote: ivan_2068 wrote: Certif1ed wrote: You appear to have missed most of my points, Ivan - which is rare for you, as you are normally totally on the ball.   Well Certif1ed, thank you for your comments about that I'm normally totally on the ball, what is not always true because as everyone I make mistakes, in this case I only answered specific phrases you mentioned:   1.- You did compared Genesis with Radiohead and even implied Genesis didn't stick true to the higher ideals and re-invent their music with the "pure" intention of creating new music.   Quote: At least, unlike Genesis and some prog bands I could mention, Radiohead stick true to the higher ideals and re-invent their music with the "pure" intention of creating new music - not simply to earn even more shedloads of moolah.     I only answered what I think about Genesis, at least during the progressive era of Genesis, because as everyone knows I can't care less about the 3 - men era.. I thought it was fairly clear that I was referring to the 3 man era itself...   2.- You also said Trespass is only more of the nice music,   Quote: I'm not even sure that "Trespass" was created with the intention of being "prog", just more of the "nice music" but a bit rockier.   Again I told you my perspective about this point.   Yes, and when I compare Trespass to FGTR, I hear the FGTR style as strongly as the later style. Listen to "The Beginning" on FGTR  -  isn't that as dark sounding as much of Trespass? "The Knife", as you rightly point out, goes much, much further - I am referring to the continuity of sound, and, because it's more or less the same lineup (no Hackett or Collins), the sound of "Trespass" is, to me at least, transitional between FGTR and "Nursery Cryme".   Gabriel's voice, Phillips' guitar and Banks' piano sound provide the intrumental continuity (the 'nice' sound) and the lyrical content, while darker, is in the same 'natural' setting (mountains, forests, streams) with many of the same characters - especially the conquering 'hero' - and plainly the same voice.   I'm interested in your perspective, BTW - this isn't supposed to be some high and mighty technical kick-down, just amicable and hopefully intelligent discussion from a different point of view.   3.- Also you said you didn’t knew when Genesis started to considered themselves progressive: I'm wondering at what point Genesis themselves considered themselves to be a prog band. Again I answered that I don’t believe it matters at all, because they were progressive since Trespass despite what they believed. OK, you had stated that Radiohead don't consider themselves prog - and my point was in agreement - but also by way of nullifying that as an argument as to why we may not consider them to be prog - is that clearer? To sum up, it doesn't matter what Radiohead think they are - it is not they who do the labelling Maybe I missed your global intention and point, but I only replied specific phrases and comparisons  with specific answers.  Hope I didn't miss the point again. I guess I laboured that a bit - but by picking on specific phrases it seems to me that you lost the 'rhythm' of my counter-argument/discussion points, and I was just trying to clear things up - the trouble with text is that you can't see my expression, hear the inflections in my voice, yadda, yadda... Iván

Have you been at the Gin again?

The bartender was washing his glasses when an elderly Irishman came in. With great difficulty, the Irishman hoisted his bad leg over the barstool, pulled himself up painfully, and asked for a sip of Irish whiskey. The Irishman looked down the bar and asked, "Is that Jesus down there?"

The bartender nodded, so the Irishman told him to give Jesus an Irish whiskey, too.

The next patron to come in was an ailing Italian with a hunched back, who moved very slow. He shuffled up to the barstool and asked for a glass of Chianti. He also looked down the bar and asked, "Is that Jesus sitting at the end of the bar?"

The bartender nodded, so the Italian said to give Him a glass of Chianti, too.

The third patron to enter the bar was a redneck, who swaggered into the bar and hollered, "Barkeep, set me up a cold one! Hey, is that God's Boy down there?"

The barkeep nodded, so the redneck told him to give Jesus a cold one, too.

As Jesus got up to leave, he walked over to the Irishman and touched him and said, "For your kindness, you are healed!" The Irishman felt the strength come back to his leg, so he got up and danced a jig out the door.

Jesus touched the Italian and said, "For your kindness, you are healed!". The Italian felt his back straighten, so he raised his hands above his head and did a flip out the door.

Jesus walked toward the redneck, but the redneck jumped back and exclaimed, "Don't touch me! I'm drawing disability!"