Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - The Prog Archives Top 100
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedThe Prog Archives Top 100
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345>
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Winter Wine View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 12 2005
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 1140 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2005 at 09:15

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Nothing personal Mr Wine, it's just some people have caused problems with multiple logins (and they're against forum rules). The admins probably could have reset your password, but anyway keep on postin'...

thank you

My computer's broke
Back to Top
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 29197 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2005 at 15:53

I'm concerned about the anti ELP feeling reflected in the top 100.I can live with the fact Brain Salad Surgery isn't in the top twenty but Tarkus not in the list at all is plain barmy (IMO).

That said the top ten is very reasonable and does reflect the very best prog has to offer (BSS being the only glaring ommission) so I can except it.
Back to Top
Easy Livin View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2005 at 16:47
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I'm concerned about the anti ELP feeling reflected in the top 100.I can live with the fact Brain Salad Surgery isn't in the top twenty but Tarkus not in the list at all is plain barmy (IMO).

That said the top ten is very reasonable and does reflect the very best prog has to offer (BSS being the only glaring omission) so I can except it.

I tend to agree with you about ELP Richard, but they do tend to polarise opinions much more than the other major prog bands. You will remember all too well the heated debates about ELP about a year ago. Thankfully things have settled down a lot since then in that respect, but I suspect a number of the reviews and ratings around that time were more extreme (one way or the other) than they might otherwise have been.

I can understand Tarkus not being among the highest rated. If it was a single sided LP it would undoubtedly be much higher, but for many the second side pulls its rating down. Personally, I would have expected Trilogy to be up there with the best, but surprisingly it has not been reviewed all that much when compared to other big hitters.

Indeed, the volume of ELP reviews currently being posted is very low. Given that the algorithm for the chart takes account of the number of reviews (among other things), it does to some extent explain why ELP are not placed higher.
Back to Top
Winter Wine View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 12 2005
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 1140 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2005 at 16:54

^ I mentioned ELP yesterday, I really feel they should be higher, especially trilogy and brain salad surgery. now that i think, it would have been nice if you said that yesterday

Back to Top
Progger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1188 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2005 at 16:59
Originally posted by Winter Wine Winter Wine wrote:

^ I mentioned ELP yesterday, I really feel they should be higher, especially trilogy and brain salad surgery. now that i think, it would have been nice if you said that yesterday

You are spot on! I have made it clear before that the top 100 is rigged! You have the same reviewers [Genesis fans are the most guilty] giving albums 5 stars over and over again. The two albums you mentioned are far superior to the likes of 'Trespass' and 'Nursery Crime'. I don't pay one bit of attention to the top 100 because it is corrupt!
Back to Top
Olympus View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 18 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 545 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2005 at 17:49
I agree that Nursery Crime is a bit high, I think it should be in the Top 20 but not within the top ten other than that I think that VDDG's albums are a bit low and I think Genesiss gets too much praise on this site.
"Let's get the hell away from this Eerie-ass piece of work so we can get on with the rest of our eerie-ass day"
Back to Top
chopper View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20032 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2005 at 17:57
Originally posted by Progger Progger wrote:

Originally posted by Winter Wine Winter Wine wrote:

^ I mentioned ELP yesterday, I really feel they should be higher, especially trilogy and brain salad surgery. now that i think, it would have been nice if you said that yesterday

You are spot on! I have made it clear before that the top 100 is rigged! You have the same reviewers [Genesis fans are the most guilty] giving albums 5 stars over and over again. The two albums you mentioned are far superior to the likes of 'Trespass' and 'Nursery Crime'. I don't pay one bit of attention to the top 100 because it is corrupt!


That's nonsense - it's not corrupt. It may well be open to manipulation by people posting 5 star reviews, but it's still a reasonable reflection of popularity.
You say "The two albums you mentioned are far superior to the likes of 'Trespass' and 'Nursery Crime'" - well, that's just your opinion and more people here disagree with that statement than agree with it, and that is why the Genesis albums are higher than ELPs.

Having said that, I am surprised at the lack of ELP in the top 100. I think it may be because albums by Genesis and Yes are more consistently better than ELPs. The majority of ELP albums do have some stinkers (and I am an ELP fan, by the way)
Back to Top
Winter Wine View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 12 2005
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 1140 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2005 at 18:17

Well elp released nothing but great albums for the 1st 5 years of their career. genesis a bit more.

i think nursery cryme and trespass are great but there are far superior albums than them, by genesis, elp, a good many bands in fact. it'd be cool too see elp and vdgg higher, i mean they do deserve it.

maybe if they only counted the first 50 reviews (of all records) or something, that way it'd come down just to the quality of the records? i dunno... just a thought



Edited by Winter Wine
Back to Top
progaeopteryx View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 03 2005
Location: Refrigerator
Status: Offline
Points: 3613 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2005 at 20:43
Originally posted by Winter Wine Winter Wine wrote:

There Are Albums By Smaller Bands That May Have Reached The Level Of These Bands At Some Point In Their Career, Even If It Never Lasted As Long Or They Never Became As Successful (Like Caravan, Soft Machine And Especially Elp). Or Even Up And Coming Bands Such As The Mars Volta, Sigur Ros Etc. Who Have Made Extraordinary Albums In The Last While Hardly Seem To Exist!



If you click on the Top 100 link, this page displays links where you can find the top 100 by subgenre. See: http://www.progarchives.com/top-prog-albums.asp?style_id=18

If you select the Art Rock category, you'll find both Mars Volta albums in the top 20, whereas on the all-genre top 100 only one is listed in 89th place. I find narrowing down to a subgenre helpful in finding some of the lesser known gems.

Of course, this isn't perfect, as some of these subgenres are still dominated by the bigger names, for example, symphonic prog.

I'm wondering if perhaps some of these bigger subgenres could be resorted by decade maybe? For example in the top 100 symphonic prog, 2/3 of list is made up of albums released prior to 1980. To me that is a clear indication that the most popular works were from that time period, but the disadvantage is that unknown gems from the 1980's and 1990's are at a disadvantage for making such a list (albeit 1/3 isn't that bad when you think about it, it's just a point I'm making) and one of the important aspects to a site of this is IMO the discovery of these unknown gems. Alas, the keyword is "popular" for these lists. If I knew of a statistical way to make a top-100 unknown gems list I'd post it, but I don't.

However, if you have the time you can switch the Prog Archives index on the main page to subgenres and browse (for hours upon hours in my case) and find all kinds of neat stuff that doesn't make it into the popular top 100 lists.

As mentioned earlier, to bring these unnoticed gems out of obscurity, you've got to contribute reviews and hope enough people are sparked by your review to go find the title for themselves and then add more reviews. The more this happens, the better the chance of these smaller acts making the lists someday. I think in the case of the Mars Volta that is already happening. Give it another couple of years when it has received many more ratings and reviews and you'll see it climb higher in that list.

I discovered a 4-star gem a year ago that I really like and intend to write a review for after the holidays are over. It's on this site and has *NO* reviews and was originally released in 1984! No one would ever find this in the top 100 list of any subgenre.

Just my two cents. I hope you have luck finding interesting things here.
Back to Top
Easy Livin View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2005 at 04:09
Originally posted by Progger Progger wrote:

Originally posted by Winter Wine Winter Wine wrote:

^ I mentioned ELP yesterday, I really feel they should be higher, especially trilogy and brain salad surgery. now that i think, it would have been nice if you said that yesterday

You are spot on! I have made it clear before that the top 100 is rigged! You have the same reviewers [Genesis fans are the most guilty] giving albums 5 stars over and over again. The two albums you mentioned are far superior to the likes of 'Trespass' and 'Nursery Crime'. I don't pay one bit of attention to the top 100 because it is corrupt!

So if people have different opinions to you, they are wrong!?Confused Are you suggesting people who like Genesis music are somehow less sincere or inferior?

There are safeguards in place to prevent multiple ratings by the same person.

Back to Top
Phil View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 17 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1881 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2005 at 06:05
Originally posted by Tommy Tommy wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

Originally posted by Progger Progger wrote:

Originally posted by Winter Wine Winter Wine wrote:

^ I mentioned ELP yesterday, I really feel they should be higher, especially trilogy and brain salad surgery. now that i think, it would have been nice if you said that yesterday

You are spot on! I have made it clear before that the top 100 is rigged! You have the same reviewers [Genesis fans are the most guilty] giving albums 5 stars over and over again. The two albums you mentioned are far superior to the likes of 'Trespass' and 'Nursery Crime'. I don't pay one bit of attention to the top 100 because it is corrupt!

So if people have different opinions to you, they are wrong!?Confused Are you suggesting people who like Genesis music are somehow less sincere or inferior?

There are safeguards in place to prevent multiple ratings by the same person.

I'm afraid your safegaurds aren't foolproof and it is easy to do multi-reviews as I have noted!

Heck guys and girls, the Top 100 is only a bit of fun, don't get so hung up if you're favourite album isn't ranked as high as you'd like!
...'course, it's easy for me to say that, as Close to the Edge always has been my favourite album........seriously though I've found it useful/interesting to see what fans views are about the "best" album by a particular band (e.g. SEBTP is ranked higher than Foxtrot), and also to see some albums in there that maybe I haven't heard (actually there are quite a few!).
Maybe if people are that hung up on it PA should allow, a la Amazon, people to post their own lists that are featured in some way, not just on a thread but maybe one member's list is featured as a "headline" each week, allowing other members to comment/criticise/ridicule?! How about it?
Back to Top
Progger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1188 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2005 at 06:12
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

So if people have different opinions to you, they are wrong!?Confused Are you suggesting people who like Genesis music are somehow less sincere or inferior?

There are safeguards in place to prevent multiple ratings by the same person.

Sorry, but your safegaurds are not foolproof as I have discovered! It is very easy to do multi-reviews and manipulate the top 100!
Back to Top
Phil View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 17 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1881 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2005 at 06:33
Originally posted by Progger Progger wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

So if people have different opinions to you, they are wrong!?Confused Are you suggesting people who like Genesis music are somehow less sincere or inferior?

There are safeguards in place to prevent multiple ratings by the same person.

Sorry, but your safegaurds are not foolproof as I have discovered! It is very easy to do multi-reviews and manipulate the top 100!

Blimey, if someone takes the time to "manipulate" the Top 100 on what's meant to be a site for the mutual enjoyment and pleasure of prog fans then its a sad old world...and some people need to get out more!!!
Back to Top
Losendos View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 03 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 571 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2005 at 06:40

 

   The list is interesting but I doubt it does justice. I agree with those pundits who say that Brain Salad Surgery is rated too lowly . It definetely derseves a top 10 spot.It is way superior to In the Court of the Crimson King which seems to be there only for nostalgic reasons. Now another point might be that some prog albums by non prog bands could rate quite highly on the list. Sabbath Bloody sabbath is one that comes to mind.

  I have never felt that any of the top 10 deserved the tag best prog album of all time. I find they all have shortcomings . My vote for the best prog album of all time would go to Abbey Road.
How wonderful to be so profound
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Online
Points: 21467 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2005 at 06:43
Originally posted by Losendos Losendos wrote:

 

   The list is interesting but I doubt it does justice. I agree with those pundits who say that Brain Salad Surgery is rated too lowly . It definetely derseves a top 10 spot.It is way superior to In the Court of the Crimson King which seems to be there only for nostalgic reasons. Now another point might be that some prog albums by non prog bands could rate quite highly on the list. Sabbath Bloody sabbath is one that comes to mind.

  I have never felt that any of the top 10 deserved the tag best prog album of all time. I find they all have shortcomings . My vote for the best prog album of all time would go to Abbey Road.

 and you think that your opinion reflects that of the majority? Sorry, I don't think so.
2025 Monthly Release Poll

Listened to:
Back to Top
Tony Fisher View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer


Joined: April 30 2005
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 967 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2005 at 06:44
Originally posted by Winter Wine Winter Wine wrote:

Sorry If This Came Up Before But Ya Know For A Good While The Top 15 Albums Or So Have Stayed Relatively The Same. But Is It In Any Way A Realistic Impression On What A List Of The Greatest Prog Records Should Be??

Everytime I Look At It I Become Less And Less Convinced. I Am A Serious Music Listener And I Like To See The Good Points In Most Things I Listen Too, But It Seems To Me That Only The Bigger Bands Of The Genre Get Most Of The Attention, I Think That It Is Unfair How Genesis (Brilliant As They Are) Have FOUR Of Their Records In The Top Ten Alone!

There Are Albums By Smaller Bands That May Have Reached The Level Of These Bands At Some Point In Their Career, Even If It Never Lasted As Long Or They Never Became As Successful (Like Caravan, Soft Machine And Especially Elp). Or Even Up And Coming Bands Such As The Mars Volta, Sigur Ros Etc. Who Have Made Extraordinary Albums In The Last While Hardly Seem To Exist!

Some Of The List Is Horrible As It Pushes Fantastic Records To The Side. For Example, Brain Salad Surgery In Every Way Deserves A Place In The Top Ten, Nursery Cryme Doesn't. Third By Soft Machine And Frances The Mute Deserve To Be In The Top 25 At Least, Gentle Giant And Van Der Graaf Generator Should Be Higher Also.

I Just Want To Know What People Think, I Wouldn't Mind Also Seeing Some Lists That They Feel Would Be A Closer Top Ten??!

Give Me Your Thoughts As I Love This Site And I'd Like To See A Fair Representation Of All The Bands And All The Records That Really Deserve Our Credit. Peace.



I disagree with virtually everything you say. For me, VDGG wouldn't get in the top 100, Frances the Mute is horrible and Brain Salad Surgery is awful. Nursery Cryme is one of my favourite albums. I do agree that Gentle Giant are great.

The top 100 is an amalgam of hundreds of peoples' views. Sure, some small bands don't get in since they have a smaller fan base and positions depend partly on the number of reviews (hence my delight in seeing Mostly Autumn figure for the first time). Just because it doesn't agree with your views doesn't mean it's wrong. It means that YOU are have different tastes to the majority.
Back to Top
Phil View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 17 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1881 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2005 at 06:52
Originally posted by Tony Fisher Tony Fisher wrote:


The top 100 is an amalgam of hundreds of peoples' views. Sure, some small bands don't get in since they have a smaller fan base and positions depend partly on the number of reviews (hence my delight in seeing Mostly Autumn figure for the first time). Just because it doesn't agree with your views doesn't mean it's wrong. It means that YOU are have different tastes to the majority.
Absolutely! Well put Tony.
Back to Top
Progger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1188 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2005 at 06:55

[/QUOTE]

I disagree with virtually everything you say. For me, VDGG wouldn't get in the top 100, Frances the Mute is horrible and Brain Salad Surgery is awful. Nursery Cryme is one of my favourite albums. I do agree that Gentle Giant are great.

The top 100 is an amalgam of hundreds of peoples' views. Sure, some small bands don't get in since they have a smaller fan base and positions depend partly on the number of reviews (hence my delight in seeing Mostly Autumn figure for the first time). Just because it doesn't agree with your views doesn't mean it's wrong. It means that YOU are have different tastes to the majority.
[/QUOTE]

First of all I agree with you about the Mars Volta album but strongly disagree with you about Nursery Crime which is probably the worst album in the current top 10.

Secondly though, your argument is flawed.It only 'appears' as if the majority of people like the Genesis albums because of the multi-logins and reviews by a small minority of Genesis fans!
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Online
Points: 21467 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2005 at 07:16
Originally posted by Progger Progger wrote:



I disagree with virtually everything you say. For me, VDGG wouldn't get in the top 100, Frances the Mute is horrible and Brain Salad Surgery is awful. Nursery Cryme is one of my favourite albums. I do agree that Gentle Giant are great.

The top 100 is an amalgam of hundreds of peoples' views. Sure, some small bands don't get in since they have a smaller fan base and positions depend partly on the number of reviews (hence my delight in seeing Mostly Autumn figure for the first time). Just because it doesn't agree with your views doesn't mean it's wrong. It means that YOU are have different tastes to the majority.
[/QUOTE]

First of all I agree with you about the Mars Volta album but strongly disagree with you about Nursery Crime which is probably the worst album in the current top 10.

Secondly though, your argument is flawed.It only 'appears' as if the majority of people like the Genesis albums because of the multi-logins and reviews by a small minority of Genesis fans!

[/QUOTE]

 You should see a counsellor ... you're clearly suffering from Paranoia. It is true that for the top albums there is some "tweaking" going on ... but that cannot be prevented, and doesn't affect the statistics as much as you might think. Let's put it this way: For every "tweak" there's a "counter-tweak".

 
2025 Monthly Release Poll

Listened to:
Back to Top
chopper View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20032 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2005 at 07:24
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Losendos Losendos wrote:

 

   The list is interesting but I doubt it does justice. I agree with those pundits who say that Brain Salad Surgery is rated too lowly . It definetely derseves a top 10 spot.It is way superior to In the Court of the Crimson King which seems to be there only for nostalgic reasons. Now another point might be that some prog albums by non prog bands could rate quite highly on the list. Sabbath Bloody sabbath is one that comes to mind.

  I have never felt that any of the top 10 deserved the tag best prog album of all time. I find they all have shortcomings . My vote for the best prog album of all time would go to Abbey Road.

 and you think that your opinion reflects that of the majority? Sorry, I don't think so.

Me neither. Abbey Road isn't a prog album by any stretch of the imagination.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.188 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.