Sorry If This Came Up Before But Ya Know For A Good While The Top 15 Albums Or So Have Stayed Relatively The Same. But Is It In Any Way A Realistic Impression On What A List Of The Greatest Prog Records Should Be??

Everytime I Look At It I Become Less And Less Convinced. I Am A Serious Music Listener And I Like To See The Good Points In Most Things I Listen Too, But It Seems To Me That Only The Bigger Bands Of The Genre Get Most Of The Attention, I Think That It Is Unfair How Genesis (Brilliant As They Are) Have FOUR Of Their Records In The Top Ten Alone!

There Are Albums By Smaller Bands That May Have Reached The Level Of These Bands At Some Point In Their Career, Even If It Never Lasted As Long Or They Never Became As Successful (Like Caravan, Soft Machine And Especially Elp). Or Even Up And Coming Bands Such As The Mars Volta, Sigur Ros Etc. Who Have Made Extraordinary Albums In The Last While Hardly Seem To Exist!

Some Of The List Is Horrible As It Pushes Fantastic Records To The Side. For Example, Brain Salad Surgery In Every Way Deserves A Place In The Top Ten, Nursery Cryme Doesn't. Third By Soft Machine And Frances The Mute Deserve To Be In The Top 25 At Least, Gentle Giant And Van Der Graaf Generator Should Be Higher Also.

I Just Want To Know What People Think, I Wouldn't Mind Also Seeing Some Lists That They Feel Would Be A Closer Top Ten??!

Give Me Your Thoughts As I Love This Site And I'd Like To See A Fair Representation Of All The Bands And All The Records That Really Deserve Our Credit. Peace.

Why do you use capital letters in EVERY word? Got to be the first such post that I've ever read.

To Be Honest, I've A Bad Eyesight Especially When Looking At A Screen, This Helps Know What I'm Writing!

Any Thoughts On My Post, I'd Love To Hear Some

Honestly, I'm having problems concentrating on what you write, with these capital letters. It looks like with every word a new sentence begins.

Anyway ... there are several threads about the top 100 ... I'm too lazy to post it all again. So in a nutshell:

The top 100 list is compiled from all the ratings and reviews. It is extremely fair ... so if you don't like the positions of particular albums, go ahead and write a review!

Here's some other threads:

Topics Topic Starter Replies Views Last Post The Prog Archives top 100 Winter Wine 3 26 December 21 2005 at 23:05 By MikeEnRegalia http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16215&get=last#1794595"> top 100 baal 16 4280 December 13 2005 at 16:04 By LuciferJim http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15019&get=last#1783604"> top 100 Progressive Music Albums 1 2 M@X 25 9801 November 28 2005 at 14:23 By MikeEnRegalia http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8462&get=last#1763290"> top 100 Most downloaded Mp3 July 2005 M@X 8 14192 November 04 2005 at 09:52 By Easy Livin http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9305&get=last#1728884"> The top 100 1 2 3 Guests 46 619 October 16 2005 at 22:20 By Winterfamily http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13126&get=last#1703428"> Tool/top 100?? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Drew 131 1499 September 25 2005 at 06:21 By ulver982 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11949&get=last#1620799"> top 100 Drum Performances List 1 2 3 4 Retrovertigo 66 1113 August 30 2005 at 14:59 By Tanuki http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10609&get=last#1462349"> top 100 Album List geezer 8 60 August 14 2005 at 04:26 By NetsNJFan http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10061&get=last#1251533"> top 100 Drummers and Drum Performances 1 2 3 projeKct dan 49 805 August 03 2005 at 15:39 By jackinthegreen http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7267&get=last#1192373"> Guitar World top 100 Metal Guitarists MikeEnRegalia 10 131 June 23 2005 at 06:32 By Guests http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7784&get=last#613824"> About the top 100 1 2 3 4 5 6 niki 109 1303 June 03 2005 at 14:34 By BaldFriede http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6892&get=last#225192"> the top 100 album list omri 9 235 May 04 2005 at 15:02 By Snow Dog http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5783&get=last#122170"> The top 100 Gadgets of All Time M@X 19 180 February 27 2005 at 23:11 By Reed Lover http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3828&get=last#83180"> top 100 albums Dragon Phoenix 13 259 December 29 2004 at 13:47 By ShrinkingViolet http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2735&get=last#56506"> top 100 prog bands 1 2 3 yarstruly 59 1138 December 13 2004 at 06:45 By ivan_2068 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2463&get=last#50027">

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Honestly, I'm having problems concentrating on what you write, with these capital letters. It looks like with every word a new sentence begins. Anyway ... there are several threads about the top 100 ... I'm too lazy to post it all again. So in a nutshell: The top 100 list is compiled from all the ratings and reviews. It is extremely fair ... so if you don't like the positions of particular albums, go ahead and write a review!

I Know How They're Compiled, But I Feel That A Big Genesis Fan Who Has Gabriel Posters All Over His Wall Will Probably Never Care About "In The Land Of Grey And Pink" Etc. Which I Think Kinda Sucks, Whats The Point In Havin One At All, Why Not Just Give Genesis Free Reign! (I Do Really Love Them Though)

Genesis are more popular than Caravan, so that is to be expected. Also I'm pretty sure that popularity aside, most prog fans would rate Foxtrot (or some other Genesis album) higher than ITLOGAP.

But I know what you mean ... you would like a list that focuses on the lesser popular bands.

I think the point is WW, the chart reflects the bands and albums which are the most popular here, i.e. on a Prog music website. Bands such as Genesis are at the top because many of our members have rated their albums highly.

Your opinion may differ with the chart, indeed it would be very strange indeed if it mirrored your own views exactly. The chart however gives what I think is a pretty accurate indication of the consolidated view of this community.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Genesis are more popular than Caravan, so that is to be expected. Also I'm pretty sure that popularity aside, most prog fans would rate Foxtrot (or some other Genesis album) higher than ITLOGAP. But I know what you mean ... you would like a list that focuses on the lesser popular bands.

I Would Without A Doubt Put Foxtrot Higher Than In The Land Of Grey And Pink But I Would Have It Higher If Ya Get Me...

Smaller Bands Still Managed Two Make At Least A Couple Of Fantastic Albums.

And Nursery Cryme Really Shouldn't Be In The Top Ten!!

Easy Livin wrote: I think the point is WW, the chart reflects the bands and albums which are the most popular here, i.e. on a Prog music website. Bands such as Genesis are at the top because many of our members have rated their albums highly. Your opinion may differ with the chart, indeed it would be very strange indeed if it mirrored your own views exactly. The chart however gives what I think is a pretty accurate indication of the consolidated view of this community.

I Really Mean No Offence By This, But Is That A Better Way Of Saying "They're Extremely Biased"

As Easy Livin said, the list is a decent indication of the consolidated view of the people who frequent this website.  Everyone has different tastes so it will confound some of us who don't see what the big deal is.  In fact, it would seem that almost half of the posts on the forum deal with how one person's subjective view doesn't line up with the average view of the majority.

Instead of yelling "overrated" about a band's appeal, just shake your head and realize that a lot of people like Genesis and not as many are fond of ELP.  (While I like Genesis a lot, I think Selling England by the Pound and Foxtrot are very average albums.  And I've made reviews to that effect which have been compiled and figure in to their ranking.  I'm even less impressed with Brain Salad Surgery, believe it or not.)

We all have different tastes, and that's a good thing!  Don't get upset if your tastes are different from everybody else's.  And don't assume that just because your tastes are different, there is something wrong with everybody else.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ aRE yOU sURE yOU kNOW wHAT yOU'RE tALKING aBOUT? aRE yOU sAYING tHAT tHE lIST wOULD bE lESS bIASED iF yOU cOMPILED iT?

Hahahahaha, No The Way I Intended That! It'd Be Less Biased If People Remembered The Little People!

Lofcaudio wrote: As Easy Livin said, the list is a decent indication of the consolidated view of the people who frequent this website.  Everyone has different tastes so it will confound some of us who don't see what the big deal is.  In fact, it would seem that almost half of the posts on the forum deal with how one person's subjective view doesn't line up with the average view of the majority. Instead of yelling "overrated" about a band's appeal, just shake your head and realize that a lot of people like Genesis and not as many are fond of ELP.  (While I like Genesis a lot, I think Selling England by the Pound and Foxtrot are very average albums.  And I've made reviews to that effect which have been compiled and figure in to their ranking.  I'm even less impressed with Brain Salad Surgery, believe it or not.) We all have different tastes, and that's a good thing!  Don't get upset if your tastes are different from everybody else's.  And don't assume that just because your tastes are different, there is something wrong with everybody else.

Three Classics!! Thats A Shame. But I Respect What You Think, And I Respect What People Think When They Take The Time To Think, Really Think. I Do It A Lot, And My Conclusions Always Seem More Full To Me, I've Heard Music I Didn't Like Two Weeks Into Listening To it, And Later Found I Loved It (Foxtrot) But Would It Have Really Made Sense For Me To Review The Album A Week After Getting It? I Don't Think So. And I Think Some People Review Records A Bit Premature, Or Maybe Already Don't Like A Certain Band For Certain Reasons.. But To Really Comprehend Something Like Progressive Rock Music A Lot Of Thought Is Needed, Would You Look At The Mona Lisa Twice And Say You Know Everything About It? No, That'd Be Stupid. But Art Is Art, To Some People I Probably Seem Mad!!  Maybe I Should Talk To Pete Townshend

If Ya Notice On the Home Page At The Moment A Person Has Just Submitted A Review Of Foxtrot, He Said Clearly That He Listened To It Three Times. Anyone See My Point!?

Hendrix828 wrote: I agree it's all about "The Eye Of The Beholder", but they're WAY TOO MANY Yes,Genesis and Rush albums in the top 20. In fact,I think that's all that's in the top 20

Haha Thaaaaaank You  Close To The Edge I Think Does Deserve To Be On Top. And Relayer And The Yes Album Should Be In The Top 20, As Should Selling Engand By The Pound, Foxtrot, And A Farewell To Kings.

Thats The Major Records From The Bands I Think! But With Them Should Be Other Smaller Bands Who Released Great Albums Ya Know

Winter Wine wrote: If Ya Notice On the Home Page At The Moment A Person Has Just Submitted A Review Of Foxtrot, He Said Clearly That He Listened To It Three Times. Anyone See My Point!?

sO wHaT wOuLd yOu dO ... dElEtE hIs rEvIeW?

Winter Wine wrote: Three Classics!! Thats A Shame.

Here are my reviews of those three classics:

Foxtrot: http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=57340 - http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=57340

Selling England by the Pound: http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=59325 - http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=59325

Brain Salad Surgery: http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=58968 - http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=58968

Read 'em and weep.

Lofcaudio wrote: Winter Wine wrote: Three Classics!! Thats A Shame. Here are my reviews of those three classics: Foxtrot: http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=57340 - http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=57340 Selling England by the Pound: http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=59325 - http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=59325 Brain Salad Surgery: http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=58968 - http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=58968 Read 'em and weep.

Hahahaha, They're Better Than I Expected To Be Honest! You Gave Good Points And I See That For You It Simply Comes Down Preference. You Didn't Run Down The Records Cause They Are Not Your Favs! But Maybe One Day They'll Click

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Winter Wine wrote: If Ya Notice On the Home Page At The Moment A Person Has Just Submitted A Review Of Foxtrot, He Said Clearly That He Listened To It Three Times. Anyone See My Point!?   sO wHaT wOuLd yOu dO ... dElEtE hIs rEvIeW?

No, But If You Released A Record Would You Like People To Really Listen To It? I'm Sure Ya Would, I Guess I Just Like Things To Be Fair.

Winter Wine wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: Winter Wine wrote: If Ya Notice On the Home Page At The Moment A Person Has Just Submitted A Review Of Foxtrot, He Said Clearly That He Listened To It Three Times. Anyone See My Point!?   sO wHaT wOuLd yOu dO ... dElEtE hIs rEvIeW? No, But If You Released A Record Would You Like People To Really Listen To It? I'm Sure Ya Would, I Guess I Just Like Things To Be Fair.

oK sO hoW manY listenS arE requireD? 5, 10, 50 ?

oK sO hoW manY listenS arE requireD? 5, 10, 50 ?

[/QUOTE]

Enough Listens Really, How Many Do You Think? . Why The Funny Writing Style?

horza wrote: i mentioned WAY WAY back that it'd be good to have a classic and a modern top 100 - Mike,has your cap lock gone a bit mental??

What Do Ya Mean, Like One From The 70s And One Now, That Sorta Thing??

^ I DON't KNOw WHAt YOu MEAn ...

Winter Wine: My funny writing style is a parody of YOUR funny writing style, which I asked you about in my first post in this thread. Only goofing around ...

MikeEnRegalia wrote: oK sO hoW manY listenS arE requireD? 5, 10, 50 ?

I guess as many as it takes for us to like the same stuff as Winter Wine.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ I DON't KNOw WHAt YOu MEAn ... Winter Wine: My funny writing style is a parody of YOUR funny writing style, which I asked you about in my first post in this thread. Only goofing around ...

 Well I Told Why I Write Like That.

I'm Not Trying To Be A Know It All Or Anything, Just Trying To Find The Middle Ground. Sorry If I Offended Anybody.

Give 'em a break, Mike.

It's Not That Hard To Read!

Winter Wine wrote: ... Deserves A Place In The Top Ten, Nursery Cryme Doesn't.

What???

Kill yourself!!!

stonebeard wrote: Give 'em a break, Mike. It's Not That Hard To Read!

No...but it's annoying.

I saw someone write a review like that(might have even been the topic creator).

TheProgtologist wrote: stonebeard wrote: Give 'em a break, Mike. It's Not That Hard To Read! No...but it's annoying. I saw someone write a review like that(might have even been the topic creator).

I find it annoying as well. I think Mr Wine has also been in the forums under another name (Thomas Mardy?) but the init caps give it away.

I would just like to say that I think the Top 100 is good and is a pretty good reflection of the "classic" albums. Obviously it's not going to reflect everyone's taste but it does reflect the majority.

You mean this Thomas Mardy?

Profile: thomas mardy Username: thomas mardy Group: Newbie Account Status: Active Online Status: Offline Real Name: Thomas Mardy Joined: December 10 2005 Last Visit: December 12 2005 Posts: 8 [0.67 posts per day] Location: Ireland Date of Birth: January 02 1989 Homepage: Not Given Occupation: Student Interests: Music, And Not Only Progressive Email Address: Not Given Private Message: javascript openInMainWin'pm_new_message_form.asp?name=thomas+mardy'"> MSN Messenger: Not Given AIM Address: Not Given Yahoo Messenger: Not Given ICQ Number: Not Given

two accounts are not aloud WW!

Winter Wine wrote: Forgot My First Password, Had To Start Over. You'd Swear I Killed Someone

I'm sorry...but WE don't know your intentions!

If a list of best-25 or top-10 could done with the aficionados for jazz, classical, bossa nova, country, etc the great names of each style will appear on top, always. We are not different from the rest of the humankind (although many prog-fans think we are ).

Also it is very difficult for me to imagine a Genesis or a VDGG or a Tull fan filling his wall with posters and photos of his/her favorite band(s). We are not popish!!!

Atkingani wrote: If a list of best-25 or top-10 could done with the aficionados for jazz, classical, bossa nova, country, etc the great names of each style will appear on top, always. We are not different from the rest of the humankind (although many prog-fans think we are ). Also it is very difficult for me to imagine a Genesis or a VDGG or a Tull fan filling his wall with posters and photos of his/her favorite band(s). We are not popish!!!

i didn't say there was anything wrong with it,  just tryin to get my poiint across. i'd love a gabriel poster!!

i've decided i'll start writing like this from now on because some people get real cranky

just to let you know.

and snow dog, i'm interested in prog music, my intentions are just to enjoy lokkin through the site, what else could it be?

chopper wrote: Nothing personal Mr Wine, it's just some people have caused problems with multiple logins (and they're against forum rules). The admins probably could have reset your password, but anyway keep on postin'...

thank you

I'm concerned about the anti ELP feeling reflected in the top 100.I can live with the fact Brain Salad Surgery isn't in the top twenty but Tarkus not in the list at all is plain barmy (IMO).

That said the top ten is very reasonable and does reflect the very best prog has to offer (BSS being the only glaring ommission) so I can except it.

richardh wrote: I'm concerned about the anti ELP feeling reflected in the top 100.I can live with the fact Brain Salad Surgery isn't in the top twenty but Tarkus not in the list at all is plain barmy (IMO). That said the top ten is very reasonable and does reflect the very best prog has to offer (BSS being the only glaring omission) so I can except it.

I tend to agree with you about ELP Richard, but they do tend to polarise opinions much more than the other major prog bands. You will remember all too well the heated debates about ELP about a year ago. Thankfully things have settled down a lot since then in that respect, but I suspect a number of the reviews and ratings around that time were more extreme (one way or the other) than they might otherwise have been.

I can understand Tarkus not being among the highest rated. If it was a single sided LP it would undoubtedly be much higher, but for many the second side pulls its rating down. Personally, I would have expected Trilogy to be up there with the best, but surprisingly it has not been reviewed all that much when compared to other big hitters.

Indeed, the volume of ELP reviews currently being posted is very low. Given that the algorithm for the chart takes account of the number of reviews (among other things), it does to some extent explain why ELP are not placed higher.

^ I mentioned ELP yesterday, I really feel they should be higher, especially trilogy and brain salad surgery. now that i think, it would have been nice if you said that yesterday

Winter Wine wrote: ^ I mentioned ELP yesterday, I really feel they should be higher, especially trilogy and brain salad surgery. now that i think, it would have been nice if you said that yesterday

You are spot on! I have made it clear before that the top 100 is rigged! You have the same reviewers [Genesis fans are the most guilty] giving albums 5 stars over and over again. The two albums you mentioned are far superior to the likes of 'Trespass' and 'Nursery Crime'. I don't pay one bit of attention to the top 100 because it is corrupt!

Well elp released nothing but great albums for the 1st 5 years of their career. genesis a bit more.

i think nursery cryme and trespass are great but there are far superior albums than them, by genesis, elp, a good many bands in fact. it'd be cool too see elp and vdgg higher, i mean they do deserve it.

maybe if they only counted the first 50 reviews (of all records) or something, that way it'd come down just to the quality of the records? i dunno... just a thought

Progger wrote: Winter Wine wrote: ^ I mentioned ELP yesterday, I really feel they should be higher, especially trilogy and brain salad surgery. now that i think, it would have been nice if you said that yesterday You are spot on! I have made it clear before that the top 100 is rigged! You have the same reviewers [Genesis fans are the most guilty] giving albums 5 stars over and over again. The two albums you mentioned are far superior to the likes of 'Trespass' and 'Nursery Crime'. I don't pay one bit of attention to the top 100 because it is corrupt!

So if people have different opinions to you, they are wrong!? Are you suggesting people who like Genesis music are somehow less sincere or inferior?

There are safeguards in place to prevent multiple ratings by the same person.

Easy Livin wrote: So if people have different opinions to you, they are wrong!? Are you suggesting people who like Genesis music are somehow less sincere or inferior? There are safeguards in place to prevent multiple ratings by the same person.

Sorry, but your safegaurds are not foolproof as I have discovered! It is very easy to do multi-reviews and manipulate the top 100!

   The list is interesting but I doubt it does justice. I agree with those pundits who say that Brain Salad Surgery is rated too lowly . It definetely derseves a top 10 spot.It is way superior to In the Court of the Crimson King which seems to be there only for nostalgic reasons. Now another point might be that some prog albums by non prog bands could rate quite highly on the list. Sabbath Bloody sabbath is one that comes to mind.

  I have never felt that any of the top 10 deserved the tag best prog album of all time. I find they all have shortcomings . My vote for the best prog album of all time would go to Abbey Road.

Losendos wrote:      The list is interesting but I doubt it does justice. I agree with those pundits who say that Brain Salad Surgery is rated too lowly . It definetely derseves a top 10 spot.It is way superior to In the Court of the Crimson King which seems to be there only for nostalgic reasons. Now another point might be that some prog albums by non prog bands could rate quite highly on the list. Sabbath Bloody sabbath is one that comes to mind.   I have never felt that any of the top 10 deserved the tag best prog album of all time. I find they all have shortcomings . My vote for the best prog album of all time would go to Abbey Road.

 and you think that your opinion reflects that of the majority? Sorry, I don't think so.

[/QUOTE]

I disagree with virtually everything you say. For me, VDGG wouldn't get in the top 100, Frances the Mute is horrible and Brain Salad Surgery is awful. Nursery Cryme is one of my favourite albums. I do agree that Gentle Giant are great.

The top 100 is an amalgam of hundreds of peoples' views. Sure, some small bands don't get in since they have a smaller fan base and positions depend partly on the number of reviews (hence my delight in seeing Mostly Autumn figure for the first time). Just because it doesn't agree with your views doesn't mean it's wrong. It means that YOU are have different tastes to the majority.
[/QUOTE]

First of all I agree with you about the Mars Volta album but strongly disagree with you about Nursery Crime which is probably the worst album in the current top 10.

Secondly though, your argument is flawed.It only 'appears' as if the majority of people like the Genesis albums because of the multi-logins and reviews by a small minority of Genesis fans!

Progger wrote:

First of all I agree with you about the Mars Volta album but strongly disagree with you about Nursery Crime which is probably the worst album in the current top 10.

Secondly though, your argument is flawed.It only 'appears' as if the majority of people like the Genesis albums because of the multi-logins and reviews by a small minority of Genesis fans!

[/QUOTE]

 You should see a counsellor ... you're clearly suffering from Paranoia. It is true that for the top albums there is some "tweaking" going on ... but that cannot be prevented, and doesn't affect the statistics as much as you might think. Let's put it this way: For every "tweak" there's a "counter-tweak".

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Losendos wrote:      The list is interesting but I doubt it does justice. I agree with those pundits who say that Brain Salad Surgery is rated too lowly . It definetely derseves a top 10 spot.It is way superior to In the Court of the Crimson King which seems to be there only for nostalgic reasons. Now another point might be that some prog albums by non prog bands could rate quite highly on the list. Sabbath Bloody sabbath is one that comes to mind.   I have never felt that any of the top 10 deserved the tag best prog album of all time. I find they all have shortcomings . My vote for the best prog album of all time would go to Abbey Road.  and you think that your opinion reflects that of the majority? Sorry, I don't think so.

Me neither. Abbey Road isn't a prog album by any stretch of the imagination.

[/QUOTE]So if people have different opinions to you, they are wrong!? Are you suggesting people who like Genesis music are somehow less sincere or inferior?

There are safeguards in place to prevent multiple ratings by the same person.

[/QUOTE]

I am a genesis fan!!!! a huge one!! trouble is most people seem to think its impossible to like many bands all at the same time!! 

[/QUOTE]Heck guys and girls, the Top 100 is only a bit of fun, don't get so hung up if you're favourite album isn't ranked as high as you'd like!
...'course, it's easy for me to say that, as Close to the Edge always has been my favourite album........seriously though I've found it useful/interesting to see what fans views are about the "best" album by a particular band (e.g. SEBTP is ranked higher than Foxtrot), and also to see some albums in there that maybe I haven't heard (actually there are quite a few!).
Maybe if people are that hung up on it PA should allow, a la Amazon, people to post their own lists that are featured in some way, not just on a thread but maybe one member's list is featured as a "headline" each week, allowing other members to comment/criticise/ridicule?! How about it?
[/QUOTE]

Thats a great idea!! i tried to get idea to people at the start of my post, but people took what i said a bit too seriously and condemned me as a blasphemer

The main problem is that many people take that list too seriously. Just look at it as a suggestion for newbies. It is NOT POSSIBLE to make this an accurate list which is immune to any kind of manipulation.

The point is: If a prog newbie would go ahead and buy all the albums from that list, that would be a decent collection. It doesn't matter if a particular album is in the top 10, top 20 or just top 90 ...

As I've said in previous threads, I think MikeEnRegalia has done a terrific job in compiling the algorithms for the PA "Chart".  It's certainly a valid piece of work, as well as being fun.

My only suggestion for improvement would be that we have a second, "current" chart, in addtion to the "All-Time" one currently posted. Couldn't this be done by simply omitting any reviews older than, say, 90 days?

Norm Cash wrote: As I've said in previous threads, I think MikeEnRegalia has done a terrific job in compiling the algorithms for the PA "Chart".  It's certainly a valid piece of work, as well as being fun. My only suggestion for improvement would be that we have a second, "current" chart, in addtion to the "All-Time" one currently posted. Couldn't this be done by simply omitting any reviews older than, say, 90 days?

Thanks! Well, personally I would fancy a number of different charts, which focus on different aspects. New releases, few ratings only, many ratings only, avg rating only, n_of_ratings only ... and maybe one chart that only uses collabs ratings, and one that only uses non-collabs ratings.

[/QUOTE]

Thanks! Well, personally I would fancy a number of different charts, which focus on different aspects. New releases, few ratings only, many ratings only, avg rating only, n_of_ratings only ... and maybe one chart that only uses collabs ratings, and one that only uses non-collabs ratings.

[/QUOTE]

Thats the kind of idea i was going for  maybe if there was a huge selection of albums that had been reviewed over 50 times or so then just count the first 50, it'd be very interesting

chopper wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: Losendos wrote:      The list is interesting but I doubt it does justice. I agree with those pundits who say that Brain Salad Surgery is rated too lowly . It definetely derseves a top 10 spot.It is way superior to In the Court of the Crimson King which seems to be there only for nostalgic reasons. Now another point might be that some prog albums by non prog bands could rate quite highly on the list. Sabbath Bloody sabbath is one that comes to mind.   I have never felt that any of the top 10 deserved the tag best prog album of all time. I find they all have shortcomings . My vote for the best prog album of all time would go to Abbey Road.  and you think that your opinion reflects that of the majority? Sorry, I don't think so. Me neither. Abbey Road isn't a prog album by any stretch of the imagination.

But if you gave Abbey Road ,Dark Side of the Moon ,Close to the Edge and Selling england bythe Pound to a 1000 random music fans and asked them to state their favorite it would be decided between Dark Side of the Moon and Abbey Road. 

Losendos wrote: If Supertramp Queen and the Moody Blues can be labelled prog then Abbey Road also fits in the category of pop/prog.Also I never said that my opinion was a majority particularly on this list.

Queen are in the Prog-Related category. That means that they're "not really" prog for most people.

Losendos wrote: But if you gave Abbey Road ,Dark Side of the Moon ,Close to the Edge and Selling england bythe Pound to a 1000 random music fans and asked them to state their favorite it would be decided between Dark Side of the Moon and Abbey Road.

Make that "1000 random prog music fans", and I'm not so sure of the outcome. I'm sure that from those choices, CttE would win easily. Having said that, I wonder why Selling England is that popular here ... maybe there IS a secret conspiracy!

Make that "1000 random prog music fans", and I'm not so sure of the outcome. I'm sure that from those choices, CttE would win easily.

  Agreed if each Yes fan is allowed the usual 30 votes :)

Having said that, I wonder why Selling England is that popular here ... maybe there IS a secret conspiracy!

can't work that out either. Might be the same Genesis fan voting 30 times 

  For me Fragile and RElayer are preferable from the Yes catalogue

 and Foxtrot and The Lamb are preferable from the Genesis catalogue

 In fact this list has provided me more than a few surprises

The Wizard wrote: What disturbs me is why Brain Salad Surgery is not higher than in the Court of the Crimson King. ITCOTCK is probabley there only for the reason that it invented prog, the quality of the album itself set aside. ITCOTCK has 'Moonchild', which is is 10 minutes of the worst filler ever imagined. Brain Salad Surgery's weak side is 'Benny the Bouncer', which is only two minutes. You could also make a case for Still You Turn me On, but it is not 'bad' or 'filler', its usually regarded as a great tune. Even so, that dosn't measusre up to the length of moonchilds noodling. So therefore BSS should be higher than King Crimson debut.

I agree 100%. brain salad is far superior to itcotck!!! and benny the bouncer isn't bad either

i think itcotck is up that high due to nostalgia. thats my honest view on it. i like the record tho

I swear I just saw Selling England by the Pound ahead of Close to the Edge at #1, and now it's back to normal ...curious.

btw, first post!

Menack wrote: I swear I just saw Selling England by the Pound ahead of Close to the Edge at #1, and now it's back to normal ...curious. btw, first post!

Welcome!  and Close to the edge should stay in number one!!

MikeEnRegalia wrote: LOL ... it seems like we have some "chart-gremlins" at work here ... funny little creatures!

Ba*****s!!  I thought it was great finally seein' them there!

Easy Livin wrote: There's been a couple of reviews of SEBTP in the last 24 hours, they could affect the positions.

..breaking prog news,you heard it here first folks on the one and only channel 5461 'the hip sound of prog'

Winter Wine wrote: Speaking if which, can someone tell why Queen II was in the top 100 a few days ago, but now even though there was no new reviews of the album it's gone??

Well it could of course be that the albums which replaced it were reviewed or rated without review.

Easy Livin wrote: Winter Wine wrote: Speaking if which, can someone tell why Queen II was in the top 100 a few days ago, but now even though there was no new reviews of the album it's gone?? Well it could of course be that the albums which replaced it were reviewed or rated without review.

Rated without review???

Menack wrote: ^Just given stars. If you scroll down the reviews page, eventually the reviews will end and you'll see all the ratings (not reviews) an album has been given.

Thats such a sham!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Wizard wrote: What disturbs me is why Brain Salad Surgery is not higher than in the Court of the Crimson King. ITCOTCK is probabley there only for the reason that it invented prog, the quality of the album itself set aside. ITCOTCK has 'Moonchild', which is is 10 minutes of the worst filler ever imagined. Brain Salad Surgery's weak side is 'Benny the Bouncer', which is only two minutes. You could also make a case for Still You Turn me On, but it is not 'bad' or 'filler', its usually regarded as a great tune. Even so, that dosn't measusre up to the length of moonchilds noodling. So therefore BSS should be higher than King Crimson debut.

  Couldn't agree more. Brain Salad Surgery can match it with any of the top ten.

Winter Wine wrote: Menack wrote: ^Just given stars. If you scroll down the reviews page, eventually the reviews will end and you'll see all the ratings (not reviews) an album has been given. Thats such a sham!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Agreed.

Winter Wine wrote: Menack wrote: ^Just given stars. If you scroll down the reviews page, eventually the reviews will end and you'll see all the ratings (not reviews) an album has been given. Thats such a sham!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes. Yes it is.

WINTER WINE wrote:

"Brain Salad Surgery In Every Way Deserves A Place In The Top Ten, Nursery Cryme Doesn't"

That is personal opinion and personal preference.  I' don't think that Brain Salad belongs in the Top Ten (or even Top 30).  But again, that's just personal opinion.  Others (especially ELP fans) will strongly disagree.  But that's okay.  We all have our own tastes. 

Losendos wrote: The Wizard wrote: What disturbs me is why Brain Salad Surgery is not higher than in the Court of the Crimson King. ITCOTCK is probabley there only for the reason that it invented prog, the quality of the album itself set aside. ITCOTCK has 'Moonchild', which is is 10 minutes of the worst filler ever imagined. Brain Salad Surgery's weak side is 'Benny the Bouncer', which is only two minutes. You could also make a case for Still You Turn me On, but it is not 'bad' or 'filler', its usually regarded as a great tune. Even so, that dosn't measusre up to the length of moonchilds noodling. So therefore BSS should be higher than King Crimson debut.       Couldn't agree more. Brain Salad Surgery can match it with any of the top ten.

Agreed, BSS is pure class and should defineatly be above the four Genesis albums listed. Tactical reviews come to mind!