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Zeph View Drop Down
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Points: 573 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Zeph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2023 at 12:35
That’s not great news. I’d hate to see BC disappear. It’s almost all I use these days after many years with Spotify. The site and app could be a lot better, but you can buy the music digitally and it’s a good deal for the artists.

Guess I’ll download it all just in case. Even then, I only use the app for listening, so I’d have to get another app and start using the files if BC went away.

Most businesses out there exist to make money and BC is no different. You can’t expect something that large to only be in it for the artists. It’s a good platform and I hope it won’t go away.
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I just learned from a recording artist that other people can put your music up on Bandcamp and earn money from it without the recording artist ever even knowing it or ever receiving a penny from the proceeds! I am HORRIFIED! Incensed! Pissed off! Bandcamp just went down in my esteem by a lot!
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Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

I just learned from a recording artist that other people can put your music up on Bandcamp and earn money from it without the recording artist ever even knowing it or ever receiving a penny from the proceeds! I am HORRIFIED! Incensed! Pissed off! Bandcamp just went down in my esteem by a lot!



This is a general problem with the internet / content websites in general, not just Bandcamp. Some companies (like YouTube) are able to invest millions to try to combat this, and even they fail. The concern for me would be less, is this possible, and more, what does Bandcamp do when it's found out? Are people ending up paying for music thinking its the artist when it's not?
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I have been using Bandcamp a lot, so bad news.

I'm wondering about the economic logic in this. Can anybody explain? What exactly did Epic win from all this? Did they sell Bandcamp for more money than they paid? Did Bandcamp make them a lot of money, and if so, wouldn't it have made sense to keep it? Or did they just miscalculate?

The former owners of Bandcamp, they just wanted to get rich and therefore they sold? Was Bandcamp in trouble already then, and if not, why would they sell? (Of course Epic offering a truck load of money explains this, but why would Epic pay more than what the place was worth to their former owners?)

And then, why is it any good for Songtradr to rip the place apart? OK, they may believe that Bandcamp becomes more profitable with fewer staff, but how would it make sense for them to buy the place then let it go bust? (Of course I could be optimistic hoping that this is not what they are going to do, but I won't hold my breath, and neither apparently do many folks here...)

Can anybody enlighten me on this? (I mean I know there are many other such stories around, but still...)


Edited by Lewian - October 18 2023 at 14:58
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Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

...
This is a general problem with the internet / content websites in general, not just Bandcamp. Some companies (like YouTube) are able to invest millions to try to combat this, and even they fail. The concern for me would be less, is this possible, and more, what does Bandcamp do when it's found out? Are people ending up paying for music thinking its the artist when it's not?

Hi,

My biggest problem is that we know that many folks are being ripped off and we do nothing about it, and many still go to BC ... or any other site.

Until the day that these folks openly show the hits and the sales, I don't think they should be given any credit, and if my name was IRS, guess where I would start my investigation ... but this is impossible because of the rich folks that OWN the place that do far worse, and sometimes maintain losing side ventures on purpose to make sure the IRS does not collect more taxes. It's thought to be considered "good business", but in the end, it is cheating and taking advantage of the system, and it should have limits so even folks with 40 houses for rent, can not list 30 of them as money losers, unless they have no tenants, which sometimes is obvious ... you let the yard go and no one wants to rent it!

In my book, BC needs to die, along with others, and the music "business" needs to go back to working for McDonalds and all the insults involved. But, like many folks I know, they are "privileged" and had "massive" benefits from family or otherwise, and they are essential "rich" folks that feel they have a right to the goodies, and let the poor folks eat cake and crumbs!

This "disparity" is the problem in the whole thing as the majority of folks posting on these locations are simply hoping for a chance, but there won't be many chances when they have no idea how many downloads or listens there were ... and they only saw one check for $10 dollars ... here, stop crying said the rich bitch!
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Points: 20032 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2023 at 08:21
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

In my book, BC needs to die, 

As I said before, if Bandcamp is so bad why are so many artists that I listen to on it voluntarily?
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Points: 12304 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2023 at 12:33
The current generation does not want physical copies. LP and CD purchases are mostly from those near retirement. The future of listening to music seems to be streaming, which pays nothing to artists. Nothing we can do to stop change.
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^Hello, current generation here, I love my LPs

I discover new music through digital, if I do like an album, I'll buy it on LP.

I have found several great albums through just LPs though, both are important
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

The current generation does not want physical copies. LP and CD purchases are mostly from those near retirement. The future of listening to music seems to be streaming, which pays nothing to artists. Nothing we can do to stop change.


Which is weird, cuz digital downloads are the logical successor to CDs/vinyl; streaming is not. You might be tempted by the selection of songs online at your fingertips, but you can't listen to the music while you're offline. Even if some sites allow offline listening, still, when the music is taken down from the streaming sites, it's gone, you can't listen to it anymore.

Also, the following applies to musicians mostly. With digitally downloaded files that you own, you can put em in your DAW, cut them into pieces, sample them, add EQ, compression, remaster, record your own instruments to it, and so on and so on. Personally, some time ago I changed the loudness and EQ curves of the tracks from Evership II for them to match the mastering on Evership I, so that when I'm listening to the two Evership albums in one go, I won't get distracted by the sudden volume and timbre shift.


Edited by Hrychu - October 19 2023 at 12:51
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Everyone forgets that free listening equates to higher exposure and thus more sales

The decentralized nature has allowed a meritocracy

Word of mouth propels talented or desirable acts to rise quickly

The down side is navigating the glut of mediocrity

All in all streaming and digital downloads have helped artists like Gentle Giant gain more popularity than they ever did in their day of vinyl only

Why? Because they were awesome and can finally be heard by anyone interested

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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

The current generation does not want physical copies. LP and CD purchases are mostly from those near retirement.

I disagree with both points.
 


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moshkito View Drop Down
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Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

In my book, BC needs to die, 

As I said before, if Bandcamp is so bad why are so many artists that I listen to on it voluntarily?

Hi,

I can not say why ... but in general, likely because it is one of the most visible? But more bands need to learn that putting up a website that also allows for financial transactions is not that hard, or that bad an investment. And is tax deductible as an expense. But being honest about the sales and what not? Another story!

Personally, I don't want BC to fall off the earth, but I want to see some more clarity as to their business practices, because if you find out that 172 copies of your album were sold and you got a check for $10 dollars ... time out .. time for a lawyer. And include all the fees!

The major issue is that you, and I, and any band ... WILL NEVER KNOW how many and how much!

That's a major issue and problem!


Edited by moshkito - October 19 2023 at 13:15
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Points: 8779 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheGazzardian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2023 at 13:47
Your example is very specific, did that happen to you? Because it is not at all consistent with my understanding of how Bandcamp handles their cut. But on the other side, making $10 from only 172 people on Spotify or another streaming service seems high.
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Bandcamp it's by far the best site to upload and sale your music.
https://antonisadelfidis.bandcamp.com/album/zantea-chronicles-the-nightmare-awakens
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Points: 20032 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2023 at 03:55
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

In my book, BC needs to die, 

As I said before, if Bandcamp is so bad why are so many artists that I listen to on it voluntarily?

The major issue is that you, and I, and any band ... WILL NEVER KNOW how many and how much!

That's a major issue and problem!

Are you sure about that? It's easy enough for Bandcamp to know how many people have downloaded a particular album - I can see sales figures for each CD that I've bought - and each artist presumably has an agreed rate for sales.
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Originally posted by TheGazzardian TheGazzardian wrote:

Your example is very specific, did that happen to you? Because it is not at all consistent with my understanding of how Bandcamp handles their cut. But on the other side, making $10 from only 172 people on Spotify or another streaming service seems high.

Hi,

It better not be ... since that is about 4 Cents per download, when they cost 99 Cents ... I think it was Paul Mc that held out at Apple to get at least 15 Cents per download, and Apple gave in ... which would say that any download place should at the very least be giving out 7 to 8% to the artist. Anything less is highway robbery.

4 Cents a song, is not going to buy you a McDonalds breakfast or lunch!
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Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

In my book, BC needs to die, 

As I said before, if Bandcamp is so bad why are so many artists that I listen to on it voluntarily?

The major issue is that you, and I, and any band ... WILL NEVER KNOW how many and how much!

That's a major issue and problem!

Are you sure about that? It's easy enough for Bandcamp to know how many people have downloaded a particular album - I can see sales figures for each CD that I've bought - and each artist presumably has an agreed rate for sales.

Hi,

There is a side here, that some folks want their "privacy", but we're talking about a system that has for the last 60 years ripped folks off too much, and it needs to open up it's books and show its honesty, which ... is not going to happen. I see more people that take money in, and pocket a whole bunch that no one knows or notices. And the bigger the money the more there is! And I've seen this a few times, during my career as a data entry for a major accounting office during tax season.

I simply wish that folks like the IRS would go after these download places ... I would be very happy to find out they were honest, but, sincerely? I doubt it! The music business has robbed many folks and careers, and it won't stop now ... when the money shows up, so does the evil!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


I simply wish that folks like the IRS would go after these download places ... I would be very happy to find out they were honest, but, sincerely? I doubt it! The music business has robbed many folks and careers, and it won't stop now ... when the money shows up, so does the evil!

Illegal download sites are usually shut down sooner or later, but they do go away. 
Bandcamp is not one of those sites, sad you can't make the difference. 
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


I simply wish that folks like the IRS would go after these download places ... I would be very happy to find out they were honest, but, sincerely? I doubt it! The music business has robbed many folks and careers, and it won't stop now ... when the money shows up, so does the evil!

Illegal download sites are usually shut down sooner or later, but they do go away. 
Bandcamp is not one of those sites, sad you can't make the difference. 

Hi,

How can you be so dense as to assume I would not know the difference? I did not say that BC was corrupt, but I did say that being more open and honest about things would help a lot more, than not. The "hiding" and simply dump people from the payroll so they are spending less and making more money, is the issue ... but then, we allow all of corporate America to do whatever the fudge they want, so why would we, the lemmings, give a damn about a BC dumping folks for ... a questionable reason?

I seriously doubt that a tax return of theirs is not a joke, but the likelihood is that they are a subofasubofasub business and by that time the numbers are very well hidden, and the IRS simply does not have the manpower to go after those huge corporations that hide so much stuff. Look ... AT&T alone would have to have at least 1000 agents to go after them! Apple would require at least 300 agents to go after them, since so much is hidden in different cities and countries! 


Edited by moshkito - October 21 2023 at 07:20
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Points: 45548 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2023 at 07:20
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


I simply wish that folks like the IRS would go after these download places ... I would be very happy to find out they were honest, but, sincerely? I doubt it! The music business has robbed many folks and careers, and it won't stop now ... when the money shows up, so does the evil!

Illegal download sites are usually shut down sooner or later, but they do go away. 
Bandcamp is not one of those sites, sad you can't make the difference. 

Hi,

How can you be so dense as to assume I would not know the difference? I did not say that BC was corrupt, but I did say that being more open and honest about things would help a lot more, than not. The "hiding" and simply dump people from the payroll so they are spending less and making more money, is the issue ... but then, we allow all of corporate America to do whatever the fudge they want, so why would we, the lemmings, give a damn about a BC dumping folks for ... a questionable reason?

Wow, thank you for that insult, you are too kind. 

Bandcamp is now corporate America?! LOL 
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