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Phil Collins' Best Drumming SONGS
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Grumpyprogfan View Drop Down
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Points: 12054 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2021 at 14:35
It certainly wasn't the Live Aid show in 1985 with Zeppelin Ouch

Maybe Dance on a Volcano or anything off of Brand X Unorthodox Behavior. 
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“Dodo” came immediately to mind. Pretty complex drum part with a groove to die for.
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Oh for crying out loud. Listen to the song you guys before saying it wasn't gated reverb. I'm referring to the Tubes. 


I must say, I disagree with the statement that Peter Gabriel & Co. didn't know they were doing it--I remember the articles from the time of release of "3" discussing it to death--how much the drum sounds were being experimented with. And they did it for a whole album--which makes listeners take notice much more than 10-15 seconds of playful sound experimentation.

I'd like to hear Al Kooper and Lee Rhett Keifer's exposition about the recording sessions of that first Tubes album because I notice you gave up on your argument pushing Bowie's Low as another prior exposition of gated drums use after hearing about all of the Visconti interviews.

It's not about the listening when claiming the invention here, it's about the intentional use, reuse, repeat use, and reliance on that particular sound effect. I'm sure many humans stumbled upon uses of the wheel before they realized they had something that could/should be put into full and regular use, right?




Edited by BrufordFreak - May 18 2021 at 18:10
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Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Oh for crying out loud. Listen to the song you guys before saying it wasn't gated reverb. I'm referring to the Tubes. 


I must say, I disagree with the statement that Peter Gabriel & Co. didn't know they were doing it--I remember the articles from the time of release of "3" discussing it to death--how much the drum sounds were being experimented with. And they did it for a whole album--which makes listeners take notice much more than 10-15 seconds of playful sound experimentation.

I'd like to hear Al Kooper and Lee Rhett Keifer's exposition about the recording sessions of that first Tubes album because I notice you gave up on your argument pushing Bowie's Low as another prior exposition of gated drums use after hearing about all of the Visconti interviews.

It's not about the listening when claiming the invention here, it's about the intentional use, reuse, repeat use, and reliance on that particular sound effect. I'm sure many humans stumbled upon uses of the wheel before they realized they had something that could/should be put into full and regular use, right?



I gave up on that argument because someone pointed out that it was an eventide on low and not gated reverb. There was definitely reverb used in drums before PG 3 but it probably wasn't gated reverb. That's maybe why the wikipedia article changed to reflect that. I'm not saying for sure but based on what others pointed out PG 3 may have been the first use of gated reverb after all.  Gated reverb apparently doesn't have the echo effect that was used on the Tubes song. Drums can be punchy and have a certain kind of sound without having gated reverb or maybe even reverb. Tell me what you think the drum sound is on the opening track to Pink Floyd's "the wall" album. It's not reverb necessarily but it's very punchy sounding and beyond a normal drum sound imo. 

Anyway, I thought we moved on from this. 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - May 18 2021 at 18:23
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Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Oh for crying out loud. Listen to the song you guys before saying it wasn't gated reverb. I'm referring to the Tubes. 


I must say, I disagree with the statement that Peter Gabriel & Co. didn't know they were doing it--I remember the articles from the time of release of "3" discussing it to death--how much the drum sounds were being experimented with. And they did it for a whole album--which makes listeners take notice much more than 10-15 seconds of playful sound experimentation.

I'd like to hear Al Kooper and Lee Rhett Keifer's exposition about the recording sessions of that first Tubes album because I notice you gave up on your argument pushing Bowie's Low as another prior exposition of gated drums use after hearing about all of the Visconti interviews.

It's not about the listening when claiming the invention here, it's about the intentional use, reuse, repeat use, and reliance on that particular sound effect. I'm sure many humans stumbled upon uses of the wheel before they realized they had something that could/should be put into full and regular use, right?
Yes, the percussion was a particular point Gabriel concentrated on. Here's part of a review for Melt I did several years ago....

"The first thing you notice is that there are no cymbals... throughout the entire album. There are other percussion instruments, but the lack of cymbals creates tension - a totemic, animistic thrum and rumble - that permeates the album with an unrelieved edginess bordering on hysteria. The purposeful mania instilled by Gabriel is amplified further with the 'gated drum' sound, a dramatic reverb effect that produces a booming but highly-compressed punch to the drums, created during the sessions for this album and employed with gusto by drummer Phil Collins (who appears on four tracks). Collins would memorably re-use the gated reverb sound on his hit 'In the Air Tonight', but perfected it on Peter Gabriel's stunning third self-titled solo album, known as Melt (for the distinctive cover photo). 

And Melt (1980), even more so than Gabriel's mega-hit So (1986), is the best album of the 1980s. Aside from distinctive vocals, studio techniques and musical innovations, Melt is, for all intents and purposes, a 'psychological treatise' on the human condition: compulsion, obsession, isolation, schizophrenia, amnesia, prejudice, bigotry, anger, institutionalization, and murder. Herein lie the darker dimensions of thought and action, delivered with an actor’s flair by Gabriel."


Edited by The Dark Elf - May 18 2021 at 18:32
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It’s almost impossible to choose for me. Phil is such a great drummer, he always did a great job while on the drum kit.
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Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

It’s almost impossible to choose for me. Phil is such a great drummer, he always did a great job while on the drum kit.

True, and he was never over the top or flashy and so he was similar to BB that way but more technical and virtuosic (if that can be applied to a drummer) than say Alan White or Nick Mason. 
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Points: 28674 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2021 at 23:53
Gated Reverb? - ELP - Tarkus perhaps on the bridge between Manticore and Battlefield?

anyway like any of us really care , anyway back to Phil Collins

Undertow Down and Out Smile
Dancing With The Moonlit Knight
The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
Dukes Travels
Man Of Our Times
Keep It Dark
Ace Of Wands
No Self Control
In The Air Tonight
Easy Lover (yes really!)




Edited by richardh - May 21 2021 at 01:11
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Points: 18522 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2021 at 06:45
Gated Reverb? - ELP - Tarkus perhaps on the bridge between Manticore and Battlefield?


Good luck with selling that one on here. This is a tough crowd. TongueWink


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - May 19 2021 at 07:54
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I'm not sure about particular songs, but I do know that I liked his drumming with Genesis much better live than on studio... who knows, perhas technically it's just the same, but live it sounds louder and heavier, and it just sounds quiet cooler that way for me.
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I don't know if this is an urban myth but the reason why 'Undertow' was not performed live, at least initially, was because even Chester Thompson could not nail the time signature!
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Originally posted by Rick1 Rick1 wrote:

I don't know if this is an urban myth but the reason why 'Undertow' was not performed live, at least initially, was because even Chester Thompson could not nail the time signature!
Any drummer that played with Zappa, has no problem with any time signature.

Edited by Grumpyprogfan - May 20 2021 at 06:32
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Phil's drumming on Genesis Live is phenomenal. That album alone cements his place as one of the best prog drummers imo.
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by Rick1 Rick1 wrote:

I don't know if this is an urban myth but the reason why 'Undertow' was not performed live, at least initially, was because even Chester Thompson could not nail the time signature!
Any drummer that played with Zappa, has no problem with any time signature.

+1
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There are loads of examples (Ace of Wand is a great shout) but The Musical Box live really sums his drumming up for me. From incredible delicacy to full power in one song.

I've just read his biography, which is refreshingly honest. He openly admits what a total c*ck he's been for large parts of his life. What I hadn't realised was that he battled with alcoholism for a long period after he moved to Switzerland which nearly cost him his life! 
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Originally posted by Rick1 Rick1 wrote:

I don't know if this is an urban myth but the reason why 'Undertow' was not performed live, at least initially, was because even Chester Thompson could not nail the time signature!

Actually I thought it was Down and Out and I don't think it was the time signature (it's in 5/4 for most of the song I think). I think it might be the short, quick drum rolls that are inserted at the end of almost every bar during the verses. It's not easy to hear all that's going on in the song because a lot of the drum parts are drowned out by the keys and bass. A lot of bands that cover this song have difficulties getting the drum parts right. I believe Rutherford in his autobiography briefly mentions Chester having some difficulty with this song when they were rehearsing, but he doesn't specifically say what the issue was (Rutherford not being a drummer and all).

Take that with a grain of salt. I'm not a drummer.
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Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by Rick1 Rick1 wrote:

I don't know if this is an urban myth but the reason why 'Undertow' was not performed live, at least initially, was because even Chester Thompson could not nail the time signature!

Actually I thought it was Down and Out and I don't think it was the time signature (it's in 5/4 for most of the song I think). I think it might be the short, quick drum rolls that are inserted at the end of almost every bar during the verses. It's not easy to hear all that's going on in the song because a lot of the drum parts are drowned out by the keys and bass. A lot of bands that cover this song have difficulties getting the drum parts right. I believe Rutherford in his autobiography briefly mentions Chester having some difficulty with this song when they were rehearsing, but he doesn't specifically say what the issue was (Rutherford not being a drummer and all).

Take that with a grain of salt. I'm not a drummer.

Yes of course it's Down and Out. For some strange reason I got that mixed up with Undertow and then Rick ran with it. LOL
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by Rick1 Rick1 wrote:

I don't know if this is an urban myth but the reason why 'Undertow' was not performed live, at least initially, was because even Chester Thompson could not nail the time signature!

Actually I thought it was Down and Out and I don't think it was the time signature (it's in 5/4 for most of the song I think). I think it might be the short, quick drum rolls that are inserted at the end of almost every bar during the verses. It's not easy to hear all that's going on in the song because a lot of the drum parts are drowned out by the keys and bass. A lot of bands that cover this song have difficulties getting the drum parts right. I believe Rutherford in his autobiography briefly mentions Chester having some difficulty with this song when they were rehearsing, but he doesn't specifically say what the issue was (Rutherford not being a drummer and all).

Take that with a grain of salt. I'm not a drummer.

Yes of course it's Down and Out. For some strange reason I got that mixed up with Undertow and then Rick ran with it. LOL

Sorry, yes first track Down and Out.
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Three that immediately spring to mind:
Fly On The Windshield
Nuclear Burn
Running On Three

Phil is one of the most unique sounding drummers from the classic era. Love his playing.

Edited by Guldbamsen - May 21 2021 at 02:38
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