Author |
Topic Search Topic Options
|
Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 8856
|
Posted: November 10 2015 at 19:19 |
Icarium wrote:
whats differs from liberal and libertarian? |
In the US, liberalism is pretty much social liberalism and libertarianism is classical liberalism.
They are also used as synonyms for "left" and "right," but on a significantly reduced spectrum. When people refer to "those crazy right left/right wingers," they are talking about people who aren't that far away from each other but a using the two prominent parties as poles between which everything falls.
|
|
|
The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13107
|
Posted: November 10 2015 at 19:42 |
emigre80 wrote:
actually, I've gotten to the stage in life where just about everyone, right, left, or center, is pissing me off. Common sense seems to have left the building entirely. The new thing that really freaks me out is teachers having to give warnings when a subject might be a "trigger" for a student who has had trauma in their life that could be triggered by that subject. Which means anyone on any subject, so apparently professors can't teach any subject without tiptoeing around it. I do agree that the right is worse, but I'm finding the left increasingly hard to live with as well.
|
The rising vortex of inane political correctness will eventually leave us with only monosyllabic platitudes. Perhaps some grunts and nods.
|
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
|
|
Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 8856
|
Posted: November 10 2015 at 19:51 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
emigre80 wrote:
actually, I've gotten to the stage in life where just about everyone, right, left, or center, is pissing me off. Common sense seems to have left the building entirely. The new thing that really freaks me out is teachers having to give warnings when a subject might be a "trigger" for a student who has had trauma in their life that could be triggered by that subject. Which means anyone on any subject, so apparently professors can't teach any subject without tiptoeing around it. I do agree that the right is worse, but I'm finding the left increasingly hard to live with as well.
|
The rising vortex of inane political correctness will eventually leave us with only monosyllabic platitudes. Perhaps some grunts and nods. |
Progress.
|
|
|
emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
|
Posted: November 10 2015 at 19:55 |
once Halloween costumes become a PC issue, I'm throwing in the towel.
|
|
The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13107
|
Posted: November 10 2015 at 19:56 |
emigre80 wrote:
once Halloween costumes become a PC issue, I'm throwing in the towel. |
Perhaps you can wear a Tipper Gore costume?
|
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
|
|
Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 8856
|
Posted: November 10 2015 at 20:08 |
^^You must not have Facebook, because it most definitely has become a PC issue. For good and bad reasons. For one, the people who seek to discourage certain costumes don't seem to get that a form of appropriation is an inextricable part of any sort of cultural exchange and they don't distinguish between that and when it's used to mock or caricature. Dressing like a Native American, for instance, based on faulty media portrayals of the race, would be in the latter category, where dressing as Disney's Pocahontas would not. One makes a broad statement about a race and the other is an innocuous homage to a fictional or fictionalized individual.
Edited by Polymorphia - November 10 2015 at 20:08
|
|
|
The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13107
|
Posted: November 10 2015 at 20:16 |
Polymorphia wrote:
^^You must not have Facebook, because it most definitely has become a PC issue. For good and bad reasons. For one, the people who seek to discourage certain costumes don't seem to get that a form of appropriation is an inextricable part of any sort of cultural exchange and they don't distinguish between that and when it's used to mock or caricature. Dressing like a Native American, for instance, based on faulty media portrayals of the race, would be in the latter category, where dressing as Disney's Pocahontas would not. One makes a broad statement about a race and the other is an innocuous homage to a fictional or fictionalized individual.
|
And yet the Wayan Brothers can wear whiteface and make an entire movie denigrating "White Chicks", and not receive the same violent disapproval a white actor would get hamming it up in blackface.
|
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
|
|
Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 8856
|
Posted: November 10 2015 at 20:50 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
Polymorphia wrote:
^^You must not have Facebook, because it most definitely has become a PC issue. For good and bad reasons. For one, the people who seek to discourage certain costumes don't seem to get that a form of appropriation is an inextricable part of any sort of cultural exchange and they don't distinguish between that and when it's used to mock or caricature. Dressing like a Native American, for instance, based on faulty media portrayals of the race, would be in the latter category, where dressing as Disney's Pocahontas would not. One makes a broad statement about a race and the other is an innocuous homage to a fictional or fictionalized individual.
|
And yet the Wayan Brothers can wear whiteface and make an entire movie denigrating "White Chicks", and not receive the same violent disapproval a white actor would get hamming it up in blackface. |
Like Tropic Thunder? Although White Chicks is significantly more racist and sexist. I've not heard complaints about either. I think that people make allowance for that kind of comedy with the understanding that it's labelled as comedy because it's exaggerated and absurd.
Edited by Polymorphia - November 10 2015 at 20:56
|
|
|
rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
|
Posted: November 10 2015 at 20:57 |
This is what happens when whether one is or isn't a liberal is decided merely by their allegiance to/support of certain ideological causes e.g. LGBT rights. The most important principle a liberal should abide by is to live and let live and not question another's choices in so far as they are ethical and that's long forgotten by the new age liberal who bristles with anger as he/she loudly proclaims, "I AM A LIBERAL!!!!!"
Edited by rogerthat - November 10 2015 at 21:10
|
|
rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
|
Posted: November 10 2015 at 21:03 |
tbonson04 wrote:
I read an interesting article on
this event in The Atlantic called The New Intolerance of Student Activism. It talks about society developing
the notion that disagreement is tantamount to disrespect. The students did not
get the immediate satisfaction and subsequent shaming of a
faculty member, so they allowed emotion to dictate their behavior. It's sad that liberal values are being muddled by so called "social justice warriors" who believe blowing things out of proportion and trying to shame individuals with different values is a proper way to conduct themselves. This is the article if a anyone's interested http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/the-new-intolerance-of-student-activism-at-yale/414810/ |
In a way, it is the logical culmination of the journey that began with progressivism breaking off from classical liberalism and taking a position that intervention would have to be sought to ensure equitable outcomes and dignity blah blah for all. By the by, in keeping with the PC spirit of the times, the blah blah is not meant to make light of those motives but simply that at 8 in the morning I can't possibly remember what all it would or would not encompass. Now intervention has gone so far as to meddle with everyday lives and muzzle our mouths. It could bring something positive to the table in the sense that, tired of ultra militant 'liberals', people finally stop seeing all classical liberals as right wing terrors.
Edited by rogerthat - November 10 2015 at 21:07
|
|
Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65365
|
Posted: November 10 2015 at 21:44 |
I just watched the video and the only "hysterical" ones are the people in this thread who seem to have absolutely no concept of how true, deep anger manifests itself in young people, particularly students. To believe that the yelling student is somehow misled or ~ the dumbest notion posted here, "spoiled" ~ is to completely miss the nature of a progressive society, of which the US most certainly is, despite a strong conservative voting body. This little scuffle is nothing compared to the events of the civil rights movement of forty years ago. Should the student have conducted herself better? Probably, but anger is not something to be afraid of, it is a normal and very important part of an open society.
I'm sorry, most of the posts here are sad, misinformed, reactionary nonsense that is completely out of touch with the course of real human events. Upset by this? Give me a break and grow some balls. If this confrontation upsets you, you have bigger problems than harping on some sensational news event.. I would've screamed at the dude myself if I felt so inclined. How does this aging, out-of-touch faculty member sleep at night?-- I'd like to know to.
|
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
|
|
The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13107
|
Posted: November 10 2015 at 22:04 |
Atavachron wrote:
I just watched the video and the only "hysterical" ones are the people in this thread who seem to have absolutely no concept of how true, deep anger manifests itself in young people, particularly students. To believe that the yelling student is somehow misled or ~ the dumbest notion posted here, "spoiled" ~ is to completely miss the nature of a progressive society, of which the US most certainly is, despite a strong conservative voting body. This little scuffle is nothing compared to the events of the civil rights movement of forty years ago. Should the student have conducted herself better? Probably, but anger is not something to be afraid of, it is a normal and very important part of an open society.
I'm sorry, most of the posts here are sad, misinformed, reactionary nonsense that is completely out of touch with the course of real human events. Upset by this? Give me a break and grow some balls. If this confrontation upsets you, you have bigger problems than harping on some sensational news event.. I would've screamed at the dude myself if I felt so inclined. How does this aging, out-of-touch faculty member sleep at night?-- I'd like to know to.
|
Misguided anger. Black lives matter, but only in regards to a white policeman shooting a black, usually a criminal. Misguided in the fact that, rather than rioting against a single police action, nothing is done regarding the vastly higher percentage of black deaths that are perpetrated by other blacks -- 93% of the killings. Ignore the fact that white perpetrators are more often shot than blacks by police (49% white, 30% black, 19% Hispanic, etc.), the black leaders, or at least the black demagogues like Sharpton feast like vultures on misplaced sensationalism, but no one has the balls to call a spade a spade....ummm....if I can use that phrase in this context. Concentrate on the real problem, devote your energy to saving your own, stop the drive-bys, end the gang wars, grow the f**k up and stop blaming everyone else for your problems. Don't go rabid about a silly costume, consider instead the continual use of the word "nigger" in your own daily speech, and quit glorifying the sort of thug attitude which is rampant among your youth and glorified in your culture.
|
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
|
|
Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65365
|
Posted: November 10 2015 at 22:11 |
^ Complete reactionary hogwash. You're damn right black lives matter in regards to a white cop shooting a black man. Black-on-black violence? What about it?
This demonstrates an utter misunderstanding of human nature and how things work. Oh and don't be so calm and civil. I can feel your anger, young Jedi, so don't be bothered by or afraid of it. A lot of people have a whole lot of growing up to do, and it is a painful process that I hope all survive.
|
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
|
|
tbonson04
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2014
Location: 7th Circle
Status: Offline
Points: 113
|
Posted: November 10 2015 at 22:16 |
Atavachron wrote:
I just watched the video and the only "hysterical" ones are the people in this thread who seem to have absolutely no concept of how true, deep anger manifests itself in young people, particularly students. To believe that the yelling student is somehow misled or ~ the dumbest notion posted here, "spoiled" ~ is to completely miss the nature of a progressive society, of which the US most certainly is, despite a strong conservative voting body. This little scuffle is nothing compared to the events of the civil rights movement of forty years ago. Should the student have conducted herself better? Probably, but anger is not something to be afraid of, it is a normal and very important part of an open society.
I'm sorry, most of the posts here are sad, misinformed, reactionary nonsense that is completely out of touch with the course of real human events. Upset by this? Give me a break and grow some balls. If this confrontation upsets you, you have bigger problems than harping on some sensational news event.. I would've screamed at the dude myself if I felt so inclined. How does this aging, out-of-touch faculty member sleep at night?-- I'd like to know to.
|
Just because you're always on the opposite side of an issue in a thread, doesn't make you an effective critical thinker. "Misinformed reactionary nonsense" ? Please, tell me what is your background on this issue that makes you such an expert. How informed is your opinion? This issue brings to light some of the deep seeded problems facing race, class, and youth. If you can't see that, then do us all a favor and opt out of society.
|
|
rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
|
Posted: November 10 2015 at 22:36 |
Atavachron wrote:
I just watched the video and the only "hysterical" ones are the people in this thread who seem to have absolutely no concept of how true, deep anger manifests itself in young people, particularly students. To believe that the yelling student is somehow misled or ~ the dumbest notion posted here, "spoiled" ~ is to completely miss the nature of a progressive society, of which the US most certainly is, despite a strong conservative voting body. This little scuffle is nothing compared to the events of the civil rights movement of forty years ago. Should the student have conducted herself better? Probably, but anger is not something to be afraid of, it is a normal and very important part of an open society.
|
Indeed, it is nothing; that's painfully evident. In the words of S Wonder, "Why must my colour black make me a lesser man"? That's what the civil rights movement of the 60s - though Wonder was carrying on that fight in the 70s - was about. And what's this about? From what I can gather, trying to stop whites from dressing up like characters from races they don't belong to? If it demonstrates anything, it is that privileged students from other races seem to have appropriated the freedom and dignity that was always rightfully theirs to keep playing the race card relentlessly to both be in the mainstream and yet not only maintain their distinct racial identity but shut off other races from conversation about their race through any means (including Halloween costumes). I am brown but I don't feel much sympathy for such a position and think students ought to find better things to do than protest Halloween costumes unless they are indeed outright racist (and nothing from the email by Erika Christakis or the article published on Atlantic suggest that was the case). This isn't even progressivism in any form either, just entitlement. If some professor at Yale had shown disrespect towards a student of LGBT orientation and other students rallied around said student to demand action against the professor, THAT would be a worthwhile cause.
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: November 10 2015 at 22:41 |
Atavachron wrote:
^ Complete reactionary hogwash. You're damn right black lives matter in regards to a white cop shooting a black man. Black-on-black violence? What about it?
This demonstrates an utter misunderstanding of human nature and how things work. Oh and don't be so calm and civil. I can feel your anger, young Jedi, so don't be bothered by or afraid of it. A lot of people have a whole lot of growing up to do, and it is a painful process that I hope all survive.
|
I agree with some of what you say but I reclaim the use of the word liberal for people with ideas about principles and how society should be run and not for people who are just upset at things. My idea includes free speech, freedom in general, but also protection for the weakest, for workers, protection FROM the free market. Screaming at a Halloween costume doesn't make one a liberal. Or an anything really.
|
|
|
Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65365
|
Posted: November 10 2015 at 22:41 |
tbonson04 wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
I just watched the video and the only "hysterical" ones are the people in this thread who seem to have absolutely no concept of how true, deep anger manifests itself in young people, particularly students. To believe that the yelling student is somehow misled or ~ the dumbest notion posted here, "spoiled" ~ is to completely miss the nature of a progressive society, of which the US most certainly is, despite a strong conservative voting body. This little scuffle is nothing compared to the events of the civil rights movement of forty years ago. Should the student have conducted herself better? Probably, but anger is not something to be afraid of, it is a normal and very important part of an open society.
I'm sorry, most of the posts here are sad, misinformed, reactionary nonsense that is completely out of touch with the course of real human events. Upset by this? Give me a break and grow some balls. If this confrontation upsets you, you have bigger problems than harping on some sensational news event.. I would've screamed at the dude myself if I felt so inclined. How does this aging, out-of-touch faculty member sleep at night?-- I'd like to know to. |
Just because you're always on the opposite side of an issue in a thread, doesn't make you an effective critical thinker. "Misinformed reactionary nonsense" ? Please, tell me what is your background on this issue that makes you such an expert. How informed is your opinion? This issue brings to light some of the deep seeded problems facing race, class, and youth. If you can't see that, then do us all a favor and opt out of society. |
Oh I see, we have to have 'background on the issue', as if the posts you agree with are fine but the minority posts must exhibit some nebulous background. And don't try to psychoanalyze other people, it's unbecoming. One more thing: Your 'opt out of society' remark shows cowardice and a feeble thinking process. If you want to discuss serious adult matters, you better keep your hands off the individual. Or, we could start brawling if you'd like. I love a good barfight.
|
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
|
|
rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
|
Posted: November 10 2015 at 22:45 |
One other thing I want to comment on is the progressives err far too much on the side of mollycoddling other races/ethnic backgrounds. The thing is, not every Chinese student is underprivileged/poor/oppressed/hapless. So please don't treat them with kid gloves. The guys we in India send to the top universities in States are usually from the most privileged section of society here. Oh yes, they are bright academically plus they have access to every resource required to ace the exams. I don't think the situation is much different in China. So far from being disempowered due to their non Caucasian background, it is quite possible they react badly to not being the most privileged brats on campus anymore in a different land and different setting. Perhaps, they resent the privileged whites for this reason and not because these whites treat them so badly on campus and all? I am not saying it IS that way, but it is a possibility so let's not discount it and go too easy on these kids wanting Halloween costumes to be censored.
|
|
Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 8856
|
Posted: November 10 2015 at 23:16 |
Atavachron wrote:
true, deep anger manifests itself in young people, particularly students.
|
Therein lies the problem.
Yelling him the same repeated points whilst misunderstanding his probably does not persuades him or do something other then use him as a stress toy. That intense anger can become a block against others' perspectives, which is ironic because it typically is manifested in the attempt to make one's own heard. I don't deny that there have been protests (and wars) which have seen more drastic measures than this, but among whom and over what? This is an e-mail. Not an abusive one, I may add. Just one that stated that the faculty member didn't know where to draw the line with Halloween costume restrictions, so there weren't going to be any.
Edited by Polymorphia - November 10 2015 at 23:17
|
|
|
Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65365
|
Posted: November 10 2015 at 23:36 |
^ Emails are one of the mediums of modern debate and protest. Flickering light on a screen is no less powerful than any other mode of communication. Television has proved that over and over again.
|
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
|
|