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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Raff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2021 at 04:37
It's a pity that review will have to go, because it's truly excellent. I wonder if it might be a good idea to allow reviews written in other languages now that online translators allow people to understand at least the gist of a text in a foreign language. It would be better than having the review published in mangled English after having been run through Google Translate without any post-editing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2021 at 06:12
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

It's a pity that review will have to go, because it's truly excellent. I wonder if it might be a good idea to allow reviews written in other languages now that online translators allow people to understand at least the gist of a text in a foreign language. It would be better than having the review published in mangled English after having been run through Google Translate without any post-editing.
Yes, it's a very good review. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2021 at 12:24
If you use the Chrome browser you have the handy facility to translate a page to English on the right-click context menu. However I think a site like this works best using a common language, i.e. whichever flavour of English you are familiar with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2021 at 16:12
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

It's a pity that review will have to go, because it's truly excellent. I wonder if it might be a good idea to allow reviews written in other languages now that online translators allow people to understand at least the gist of a text in a foreign language. It would be better than having the review published in mangled English after having been run through Google Translate without any post-editing.

I’ve thought that for some time. I would much prefer to use Google translate to read a review written in a foreign language than some of the reviews written in mangled English. The notion that all reviews on this site must be in English once made sense, but I really don’t think it’s the case any longer. I would definitely give my vote to reviewers using whatever language they feel most confident in, should this ever come up.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2021 at 16:22
At a well known English language based jazz site that I like to frequent, if a non-English review shows up, it is left intact and then an English translation is tacked on following the original review, thereby making everyone happy .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UMUR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2021 at 23:51
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

At a well known English language based jazz site that I like to frequent, if a non-English review shows up, it is left intact and then an English translation is tacked on following the original review, thereby making everyone happy .


I like the idea (I´ve done it myself on RYM with a Danish language review, which I also translated to English), but if the reviewer has a hard time using the English language, who would be responsible for the translation?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2021 at 23:58
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

At a well known English language based jazz site that I like to frequent, if a non-English review shows up, it is left intact and then an English translation is tacked on following the original review, thereby making everyone happy .


A perfectly sensible compromise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2021 at 00:33
Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

At a well known English language based jazz site that I like to frequent, if a non-English review shows up, it is left intact and then an English translation is tacked on following the original review, thereby making everyone happy .


I like the idea (I´ve done it myself on RYM with a Danish language review, which I also translated to English), but if the reviewer has a hard time using the English language, who would be responsible for the translation?

Google?
I honestly wouldn’t mind leaving out the translation. People can do the copypaste and googletranslate themselves methinks.
It could be fun doing some Danish reviews that most likely will look insane directly translated into English
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shadowyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2021 at 02:07
Google Translate can suck big time... Some of the mistakes it makes result in just the opposite meaning of the original, even.

I'm a book translator, and I see lots of critical mistakes it makes. It is always improving, but it cannot reach the human mind even with petabytes of data. Artificial intelligence? Still calls for improvement.

Edited by Shadowyzard - April 17 2021 at 06:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2021 at 03:12
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

Google Translate can suck big time... Some of the mistakes it makes result in just the opposite meaning of the original, even.

Indeed, and that is what we end up seeing on the site, because of the insistence of reviewing in English. Hence why I’d rather see the review in its original language on the site.

I would much rather a fluent review on PA in the reviewer’s native language, than a google translation into English. That way, when someone copies and pastes into Google translate, or whatever, they know the translation might be dodgy. And it also means that as AI improves, which it surely will, then the translations will become more accurate.

A badly translated to English review on this site will forever be a hard to read, and sometimes nonsensical review. A review in the native language may not translate well now, but it will be eventually.



Edited by nick_h_nz - April 17 2021 at 03:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shadowyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2021 at 03:15
^ Good point! Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2021 at 03:24
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

A review in the native language may not translate well now, but it will be eventually.


well then, isn't it better to wait until that happens. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shadowyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2021 at 03:28
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

A review in the native language may not translate well now, but it will be eventually.


well then, isn't it better to wait until that happens. 




Nick is right, at least in the sense that, even not being able to understand an "authentic" review is better than "misunderstanding" a Google translated one. In the first, at least, someone that knows the language can evaluate the review accurately.

Edited by Shadowyzard - April 17 2021 at 03:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2021 at 03:35
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

A review in the native language may not translate well now, but it will be eventually.


well then, isn't it better to wait until that happens. 


Nick is right, at least in the sense that, even not being able to understand an "authentic" review is better than "misunderstanding" a Google translated one. In the first, at least, someone that knows the language can evaluate the review accurately.

a review written in another language will be useful only to speakers of that language. I don't see people using some translating app to understand a review written in another language. I'm not sure I would make this effort. 

I do not understand how writing reviews in English has become an issue, a problem. It was fine for so long... I don't get it. Maybe we should monitor reviews and weed out the poorly written, trolling kind. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2021 at 03:46
Christi, you missed my point, it seemed. There is no point waiting, as you would be forever waiting, as improvements are always occurring. But badly translated reviews will be stuck here forever. Fluent reviews will be here forever, and can easily be translated should someone want to, and those translations will be better over time.

As to whether or not you can make the effort, that is up to you. I don’t even make the effort to read every review that is posted. But if it is an album that looks interesting, I do. And if it were in a foreign language, and my interest were piqued, then I would translate it. Conversely, when I come across a badly translated review, I move on.

As to this only recently becoming an issue or a problem, I think that’s a silly thing to say. Just because it’s only now being discussed doesn’t mean it hasn’t always been a problem. One of the very first things I noticed when I came to this site over a decade ago was the badly translated reviews. Just because you are happy with it, doesn’t mean everyone else is.

And I completely disagree with weeding out reviews based on people deciding they are poorly worded. Much of the poorly worded reviews are a result of the insistence of writing reviews in English, and they are actually very good reviews otherwise. Some of the foreign language reviews that have cropped up on the site in the last few weeks are better written than some of the native English reviews, but they would be poorly worded if run through Google Translate.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2021 at 04:08
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Christi, you missed my point, it seemed. There is no point waiting, as you would be forever waiting, as improvements are always occurring. But badly translated reviews will be stuck here forever. Fluent reviews will be here forever, and can easily be translated should someone want to, and those translations will be better over time.

As to whether or not you can make the effort, that is up to you. I don’t even make the effort to read every review that is posted. But if it is an album that looks interesting, I do. And if it were in a foreign language, and my interest were piqued, then I would translate it. Conversely, when I come across a badly translated review, I move on.

As to this only recently becoming an issue or a problem, I think that’s a silly thing to say. Just because it’s only now being discussed doesn’t mean it hasn’t always been a problem. One of the very first things I noticed when I came to this site over a decade ago was the badly translated reviews. Just because you are happy with it, doesn’t mean everyone else is.

And I completely disagree with weeding out reviews based on people deciding they are poorly worded. Much of the poorly worded reviews are a result of the insistence of writing reviews in English, and they are actually very good reviews otherwise. Some of the foreign language reviews that have cropped up on the site in the last few weeks are better written than some of the native English reviews, but they would be poorly worded if run through Google Translate.


By poorly written I mean ineffective, not telling us much about the album in the first place, not just poorly worded, not to mention the trolling kind. I dislike long reviews written in one long paragraph, I skip those instantly. 

It's never bothered me that English is the language of the site. English is not my first language. 
There are many great reviews written by users non English speakers. If someone does not master English at a decent level, in order to write a review, maybe they should make the effort to improve their English first. Am I being rude for saying that? Maybe. 

I haven't written a review in a very long time, my reviews pale compared with other reviewers, it's almost intimidating. Writing is a process anyway and i lack the patience sometimes. I respect users writing well written reviews, more respect from me for those reviewers that are non English and they write beautifully. Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Raff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2021 at 04:26
Cristi, improving your writing proficiency in a written foreign language is a process that takes enormous time and effort - as I am sure you know. Being a professional language teacher (and occasionally translator), I can tell you that many people never learn to write properly in a second language, in spite of being very fluent in speaking. Saying that people "should make an effort" to learn English properly before writing a review is not very nice, because everyone that effort is so huge that it's not doable by everyone. However, there are lots of people who - in spite of not being able to write in good English - are very good at writing in their native language, and can produce a review that is worth reading because of its content. That's the case of the Italian guy who posted the review that sparked this discussion.

Anyway, you'd be surprised at the number of people who make the effort of using Google Translate when they find something they are interested in written in a language they don't know. A practical example? Food recipes. There are lots of great food sites in Italian, and many people who don't know the language use Google Translate to understand a recipe.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2021 at 04:34
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Cristi, improving your writing proficiency in a written foreign language is a process that takes enormous time and effort - as I am sure you know. Being a professional language teacher (and occasionally translator), I can tell you that many people never learn to write properly in a second language, in spite of being very fluent in speaking. Saying that people "should make an effort" to learn English properly before writing a review is not very nice, because everyone that effort is so huge that it's not doable by everyone. However, there are lots of people who - in spite of not being able to write in good English - are very good at writing in their native language, and can produce a review that is worth reading because of its content. That's the case of the Italian guy who posted the review that sparked this discussion.

Anyway, you'd be surprised at the number of people who make the effort of using Google Translate when they find something they are interested in written in a language they don't know. A practical example? Food recipes. There are lots of great food sites in Italian, and many people who don't know the language use Google Translate to understand a recipe.

I know I was rude when I said about making an effort. Remember Mandrake Root who was laughed at but in the end he did learn some English and then he left. 

Like it's been said before, google translate is terrible at times. 

I know how hard it is to write, I envy people who find words easily to express themselves, I sometimes struggle with that. I'm also an introvert, this does not help either. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote projeKct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2021 at 06:18
Google Translate is not the only tool available. Do you know DeepL Translate? It's powerful and often more accurate than Google. Give it a try... Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2021 at 09:52
It's probably not my place to say this. If opening up reviews to all languages increases contributions to the site, then I think that would be a good thing. 

Having said that, I look forward to the first reviews posted in Klingon or Kobaïan.
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