Question to you about Genesis !

I believe Trespass is amazing, the greatest improvement in Prog' history, from the weak FGTTR to the incredible Trespass.

White Mountain and the Knife alone well pay the album, if you add Visions of Angels and Stagnation, you got a strong album.

Iván

Snow Dog wrote: ^ not for me I'm afraid Ivan, I only rate The Knife as any good

Trespass for me is a good album, but I'm afraid Foxtrot and Selling are better. I also like A Trick of a Trail better than "Trespass"

Ivan: well, FGTR is not prog rock, but still great album imho. It is not common pop/rock album, there are interesting elements, melodies etc. It is better than Abacab, We cant dance, CAS, Genesis....

i said slightly more commercial than T,NC,F. First pure commercial was abacab imo, 100% commercial :)

I don't see the story of Genesis as simple as 5 - 4 - 3 men eras, Genesis has more eras and sounds:

1. The Beginnings: From Genesis to the Revelation: An album that could have been very good, because Jonathan King used their more commercial stuff in the search of a hit single, but even there you can notice Peter extraordinaire vocals (better than ever) and Tony's incredible piano performances. Thanks God they didn't succeed, because they could have stayed in that line if the album sold well.
2. Fast Evolution: Trespass is a dramatic change from their debut, dark haunting, absolutely atmospheric and full of intelligent lyrics, I always believed Anthony Phillips was a seudonym Steve Hackett used, because both have a very similar style.
3. The Peak: Genesis was absolutely unique only during Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot, they blended that darkness of Trespass with more elaborate music, tha atmospheres here are absolutely unique.
4. Softer Era: Tired of selling less albums than any Prog band, they decided to do a lyrical and more accessible album as SEBTP, not commercial in the strict sense of the word, but easier to swallow by the casual listener, I Know What I Like reached N° 17 in the British Charts.
5. Harder Era: The Lamb goes against natural evolution, is more complex than any previous album, some people believe Peter had already decided to leave due to the problems with  Tony Banks in the compositiopnal field and Phil Collins who hated his the trics, they wanted Peter oin the band but accepting their conditions and he said no way José, so Peter left his legacy in the history of Genesis with a conceptual  album made by him and for him, if you check the lyrics there are plenty references of this situation. The resy of the band accepted because they knew it was the last one.
6. Transitional Era: Peter was no more with them, so they didn't wanted to risk their small fan base, the band took the music inmediately after SEBTP (Including two tracks left aside from the SEBTP material) ignoring The Lamb. Collins tries to sound like Gabriel, Steve guitar is simpler than ever, they change the mystery for fairy ytales, an album even easier to be listened by a casual fan.
7. Return to the Roots: ATOTT was good, but they knew thay had lost identity so they tried to make an album closer to Foxtrot or Nursery Cryme, let Steve add a couple of songs and Mike one (which IMO is crap), great album but not in the level of the Genesis Peak.
8. The I don't give a sh!t era: That's a personal comment

So I stay with the Peak, but Trespass is also great, from SEBTP they started to lose identity (being great still), The Lamb is unique and the rest you already know, two good albumns and then they should change the name of the band.

Iván

 

TRESPASS is my least favorite album from Gabriel Era and I consider W&W as an outstanding, incredible work by them, right behind (very close) of Foxtrot (THE Genesis MASTERPIECE) and Nursery Cryme if it wasn't for My Own Special Way and some flaws throughout the album, but I think Eleventh Earl of Mar and SPECIALLY, ONE FOR THE VINE, are both between the finest music pieces done in all the 70's prog scene.

I haven't listened much to GENESIS after my teenages, but "Selling England by the Pound" was most boring to me. There's a hint of transition to Collins-era already, and the songs have silly emotinal changes. I remeber liked "Wind and Wuthering" little, some faint memories of the Gabriel era still there, and nice cover picture.

Their two fist albums please me most, "Trespass" being the best.

I think I must agree with most on this one, worst Gabriel era LP: Trespass (of course FGtoR is worse by far than any output till the 90's). And the best post-Gabriel is Wind and Wuthering, "One for the Vine" and "Eleventh Earl of Mar" are among the best tracks Genesis ever recorded. Just take off "Your own special way" and you have an almost flawless LP, the remastered CD is an excellent improvement as I always felt the LP lacked a lot of lower frequencies (LP compression to fit in 50 plus minutes of music).

Mogens

Best with Gabriel: All are great, but "Foxtrot" I believe is the best. The whole essence of the band really came together and jelled here. "Selling England" is a close second. I would have said "Trespass" if Hackett and Collins were in the band. If they had been, it possibly could have stood by King Crimson's "Court" as a masterpiece because of the brilliant writing.

Worst with Gabriel excluding "Revelaton": "Nursery Cryme". Great wrting and great songs, but the recording quality and their musical chops weren't quite 100 % yet. The live versions and/or BBC verisons of the songs are much better.

Best with Collins: Without a doubt "Trick." The original Genesis prog ethos stayed intact. The writing is timeless and brilliant. They really had to try hard to succeed after Gabriel left, and they pulled it off brilliantly. Still one of my faves. Thanks especially to Steve.

Worst with Collins: Really cannot say. Last album ever bought was "Duke." And by then the real Genesis was history. Could not bring myself to spend money on their boring pop-music after hearing what they were capable of up through "Wind." Even hearing the silly pop trash on the radio made me cringe, and the dial was immediately turned.     

Edited by Dennis

Favorite Collins Era: ATotT barely edges W&W, but I like them all up to Abacab *ducks for cover*

Least Favorite PG Era: Easily Nursery Cryme.  Hogweed brings it down for me, and Steve doesn't have that signature sound yet, and he is rarely used at all with the exception of the Musical Box and keeping rythmn on the short songs.  In addition, Tony used that annoying organ sound which is watered down and lacks the punch that it was meant to have (this is what hurts songs like 'Get em Out by Friday' and '...Hogweed').  The band would get better with time though, Tony and Steve developing great teamwork/interplay, Peter's voice becomes much more versatile and melodic, and Phil and Mike are much improved.  The addition of synthisizers improved Genesis' overall sound by leaps and bounds.

Compare: Trick is way better than NC  (5 stars compared to 3 3/4)

This is my order of favorite Genesis albums (only 70's era to keep it simple)

• Selling England by the Pound (1973) - just because it is slower/softer doesn't mean it is commercial at all.  btw, I believe this is THE prog album, and the best rock album ever recorded by the best band etc, etc....
• A Trick of the Tail (1976) - very different to their original stuff, but just as good.  contains the "magic" sound and beautiful melodies, songwriting, and astounding musicianship and interplay.  Collins has a GREAT voice with LOTS of emotion.
• Wind and Wuthering (1976/77) - more developed than Trick, and contains those same elements...very solid 5 stars from myself.
• The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974) - the groups magnum opus, the only problem....not a group effort, and Hackett (as always) is underused
• Foxtrot (1972) - Suppers Ready, and Can Utility are masterpieces, and the intro of Watcher is one of the greatest ever.
• Tresspass (1970) - very dark, more acoustic.  PG's vocals are excellent. He doesn't strain his voice so much on this one.  Ant Phillips is great on guitar, very underrated
• Nusery Cryme (1971) - very victorian sounding, but has several weak spots.  Musical Box, Seven Stones, and Fountain of Salmacis are three of the bands strongest tracks.  Harlequin is an excellent short song.
• And Then There Were Three (1978) - Hacketts gone, so is the "magic sound".  Still a good album though, Collins shines on vocals, and Tony is strong on keys.  Songwriting is still strong, but a slight drop off would come with the new decade.

So many strong albums, I think Genesis was/is the greates band ever. They overcame so many barries and departures and still made excellent music....the no. 8 album on my list still receives 3.5 stars from me.

Edited by Fearless