Best progressive drummer?

Menswear wrote:

I'm sorry but I have to vote for Mattias Olsson He just blows my friggin' mind off. In Hybris, he was only 18! For the love of god, what talent.

I was going to mention him but being an ex-drummer (even if I was just an average one), I notice some things that non drummers don't. He has a great talent, good style and enough strength(not too much even though) but IMO has a poor feet work.

This (again IMHO) disqualifies him as a top drummer because feet work is very important for a drummer.

Iván

1 - Neil Peart (Rush)

2 - Phil Collins (Genesis)

3 - John Bonham (Led Zep)

4 - Ian Paice (Deep Purple, Whitesnake, Gary Moore group etc..)

5 - Animal (Muppets)

There are many drummers who play like demons, but not so many who are easilly recognisable through their sound and style. The above - not including the muppet, who I admire purely on grounds of Charisma and probable success with the opposite sex - are all instantly recognisable. Their contribution to their bands was always an integral part of the overal band sound.

I have tried to get into Bill Bruford, but have difficulty. I went to see his band, Earthworks at an art centre about 10 years ago, and could see he was very good. However, there are moments on 'Red' by KC, where he almost loses it in the opening title track, and you can hear him obviously struggling to keep time, whilst changing rhythm. Sorry, BB fans.

I am a drummer myself and the only prog drummer I am afraid of is Bruford. Peart I could blow away.Easily.

Doom Hammer said:

a lot of my drummer friends always talk about feet work, double bass.. etc. although many would think that death and thrash metal drummers like Lombardo (slayer - Testament) are the best in feet work but i think the best feet work drummer is Portnoy (dream thatre)

IMO being loud with the feet is not a synonym of having good feet work, most metal drummers are only loud, even though there are great ones as Portnoy you mentioned.

I believe you can see the best feet work in Power Trios and the explanation is simple. A power trio musician due to the short number of instruments used simultaneously (specially on stage) need to be complete, every part of the body must be used to fill the terrible empty spaces left when there are not enough instruments, so or they are good with hands and feet or they can't play in a power trio, as simple as that.

Phil Collins (for example) is a great drummer, but he works better in big jazz bands, he doesn't has enough strength and feet work, if you hear him carefully, the tone of his drums is very high, the bass drum is almost not used, because in bands as Genesis he never had to be too loud (even when they were three, because on stage they played with Chester and Daryl), he only had to be fast and extremely imaginative, in Brand X is even more clear. Place him in a power trio and I'm almost sure he won't be as good.

Remember Keith Moon, another legend who also played in a band that worked as a power trio, The Who had four members but only three instruments and Roger Daltrey almost always exclusively sung, so power trio drummers are almost always amazing percussionists.

richardh wrote:

Carl Palmer was exceptional with the snare drum but less so with the bass drum which he used more in a percussive way

I believe Peart and Palmer have a wonderfull feet work, but Carl doesn't need to user bass drum as often as Peart for two reasons:

1) ELP is a low toned band mostly because Greg Lake's voice is so powerfull that covers mostly low ranges, so bass drum is not his main worry, he manages veru well the snares and metals. On the other hand Geddy Lee's voice is ultra high and Peart has to lower the tone using much more low toned bass drum, imagine if he used pure snare drums  (ideal snare sound lives somewhere between wood and metal shell drums)  or worked his feet more with metals, the sound would be so accute that it would hurt the listener ears.

2) ELP and Rush are both power trios, but Emerson with his keyboards replaces the sound of many instruments, so the band creates an effect as if they had more instruments, then Carl doesn't need to use bass drums to often because there are almost no empty spaces. Even though Geddy Lee plays keyboards on stage, the band's natural sound is guitar, bass and drums, so Peart has to use everything he can to cover more silence spaces.

Just to end, I am only trying to find an explanation for your question, because IMO Carl Palmer has a very solid bass drum, and never noticed any trouble with his bass drums, probably he uses them less because of the music requirements.

Iván

I had to find a translation for snare drums, because I don't manage well the terms in English.

Vibrationbaby wrote: I am a drummer myself and the only prog drummer I am afraid of is Bruford. Peart I could blow away.Easily.

Yeah Riiiigghhhttt dude!!!..

Even if that is the case, I should warn you that I too used to beat the skins in numerous heavy metal bands. I bet you $1,000,000 (Canadian of course) that YOU could never fall off your drum stool, simultaneously dropping both sticks and almost knocking yourself out in front of 200 people, in the opening bar of your first song, like I once did. That takes REAL skill and showmanship..

Funny thing is, there was a guy from Fiction records there that night. He didn't pass comment on my dying drummer routine, but he was heard to say that he had often flushed more talented things, than our singer, down the toilet.  Which was nice....

danbo wrote: Focussed wrote: Funny thing is, there was a guy from Fiction records there that night. he was heard to say that he had often flushed more talented things, than our singer, down the toilet.  Which was nice... Tough gig.... Your not Mike Portnoy, are you?

No not me, mate. But, I was in some way cursed as a musician. Some of the gigs I played with numerous rock/indie bands ended up in mayhem, equipment smashed, people arrested, buildings evacuated due to excessive use of smoke machines setting off fire alarms etc.

And now my girlfriend wants to reform a band I was in years ago with her brother, with her as singer. I am too old for this....

Separating prog into "straight" prog (i.e., symphonic, art rock, etc.) and "fusion" prog (i.e., with more jazz elements), and separating both categories into "early" and "neo," here's my list:

Early straight: Bill Bruford (Crimson, Yes) , Phil Collins (Genesis, Brand X), Carl Palmer (ELP)

Early fusion: Billy Cobham, Narada Michael Walden (both Mahavishnu)

Neo straight: Neal Peart (Rush), Mike Portnoy (Dream Theater)

Neo fusion: Marco Matteuzzi, Claudio Tratta (both Deus ex Machina)

For my money, Matteuzzi and Tratta are the two best prog drummers in the world at this moment: both of them simply blow away both Peart and Portnoy (and arguably even Bruford and Collins).  Listen to Matteuzzi's work on De Republica, and Tratta's work on Diacronie Metronomiche, and then tell me with a straight face that there is anyone better.

Peace.

Menswear wrote: 3) Stewart Copeland---The Police

Copeland played for Curved Air!!!

ivan_2068 wrote: Menswear wrote: I'm sorry but I have to vote for Mattias Olsson He just blows my friggin' mind off. In Hybris, he was only 18! For the love of god, what talent. I was going to mention him but being an ex-drummer (even if I was just an average one), I notice some things that non drummers don't. He has a great talent, good style and enough strength(not too much even though) but IMO has a poor feet work. This (again IMHO) disqualifies him as a top drummer because feet work is very important for a drummer. Iván

IMHO for fully formed drummers aged 18 or less, check out Simon Phillips work on Phil Manzanera's 801 Live album.

And before I duck out, consider well the influence of the late Joe Morello (drummer of Dave Brubeck Quartet) amongst other jazz greats, had on young drummers who played prog in the 70's.