Neil is great, one of the best I would have to say and the rock of RUSH not only for the way he performs, but for the weight placed upon him transformed into the great composer and songwriter he is. BUT, he ain't the best drummer for me. I definitely have several opinions and observations, but instead of that I'm just going to give you away the name of my all time best drummer . Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Cozy Powell.  Love him or hate him!!!

P.S. I thought of Bill Bruford, but naaaah!!!  (waiting for rotten eggs to be hurled in my direction any time now...)

When I joined this forum in May there was a Poll about this same issue, but I prefer this kind of threads where you can choose your candidates without any limit.

A few months ago I would have voted for Bill Bruford beyond any doubt, but today I believe there are many in so high level that's hard to choose the best, my favorites are:

Bill Bruford (Yes - King Crimson, etc.): Great percussionist and complete musician.

Manu Katche (Peter Gabriel): Perfect style, watching him play you can't understand how he can be so loose and calm, plays with all the body and enjoys what he does.

Phil Collins (Genesis, Brand X): Not in a superb level as all others here, but still among the best, complex, ultra fast and loves to improvise, better for jazz than for prog'.

Neil Peart (Rush): Well.....he's Peart and that is enough.

Carl Palmer: Perfect drummer for a power trio, strong and fast, don't know if he would feel comfortable in a band with more members.

Lee Kerslake (Uriah Heep): Terrible style but enough power to iluminate a big city. Not a drummer, a force of nature.

Phil Ehart (Kansas): Incredibly complex drumming, perfect style but maybe lacks a bit of strength.

Tony Fernandez (Strawbs - Rick Wakeman): The most underrated drummer in the world, absolutely precise, incredible feet work, a guy who can follow Rick Wakeman on stage has to be a master.

Terry Bozzio (UK, Missing Persons, Bozzio - Levin & Stevens): Mr. style himself, the guy is absolutely accurate.

Not Prog and maybe you can hate the music he plays but Fergal Lawler from Cranberries is out of this world, he has great style and strength, a complete drummer.

Iván

Much as I love Neil Peart's drumming and the lyrics he wrote for Rush my vote goes to Mike Portnoy. I think his drumming is so versatile that it's a joy to listen to any Dream Theater or Transatlantic record. I've seen Transatlantic perform live with Mike in the front of the stage. I was in the audience only inches away from that spot  and utterly amazed by his techniques.

My vote goes to Barriemore Barlow, although I have to mention the awesome Dave Lombardo.

(and all the guys already mentioned!)

ivan_2068 wrote: Manu Katche (Peter Gabriel): Perfect style, watching him play you can't understand how he can be so loose and calm, plays with all the body and enjoys what he does.

Pretty much distant from what he did with Sting (I enjoy listening to his performance in "Nothing like the sun", he's obviously in an upper level from Vinnie Colaiuta) and with Rick Wright ("Broken China")... and obviously, with CAMEL, unarguably amazing, simply outstanding!

The usual suspects:

Carl Palmer (ELP)

Neil Peart (Rush)

Phil Collins (Genesis)

Alan White (Yes)

Bill Bruford (King Crimson and Yes)

Mike Portnoy (Liquid Tension Experiment,Transatlantic and Dream Theater)

Paul Cook (IQ)

All great prog drummers IMO.Probably Neil Peart has the most all round ability and has a style balanced nicely between the powerfull aggressive approach of Carl Palmer and the more subtle approach of Bill Bruford.

ivan_2068 wrote: Neil Peart (Rush): Well.....he's Peart and that is enough. Carl Palmer: Perfect drummer for a power trio, strong and fast, don't know if he would feel comfortable in a band with more members.

plus Mike Portnoy of Dream theatre, he says he always look up to Neil Peart as his instructor.

headboy wrote:    Mr Billy Cobham!!

I saw him once on Mezzo (French music television)... he played a song called "Red Baron"... awesome! He also played with Miles Davis, right?

I didn't know that! Also on "Inner Mounting Flame"?

CARL PALMER   NO DOUBT    Followed by Bill Brufford

Drummers are mostly the coolest musician to watch. Some are stylish, some are more reserved. But, many bands are crummy if you take off the cool drummer.

So the nomitations are:

PROGRESSIVE ROCK

1) Hans Bathelt---Triumvirat

2) Neil Peart----Rush

3) Pierre Van der Linden----Trace, Focus

4) Mattias Olsson----Anglagard

5) Phil Collins----Genesis, Brand X

I'm sorry but I have to vote for Mattias Olsson He just blows my friggin' mind off. In Hybris, he was only 18! For the love of god, what talent.

NOT PROGRESSIVE ROCK

1) Keith Moon---The Who

2) Fergal Lawler---The Cranberries

3) Stewart Copeland---The Police

Menswear wrote:

I'm sorry but I have to vote for Mattias Olsson He just blows my friggin' mind off. In Hybris, he was only 18! For the love of god, what talent.

I was going to mention him but being an ex-drummer (even if I was just an average one), I notice some things that non drummers don't. He has a great talent, good style and enough strength(not too much even though) but IMO has a poor feet work.

This (again IMHO) disqualifies him as a top drummer because feet work is very important for a drummer.

Iván

1 - Neil Peart (Rush)

2 - Phil Collins (Genesis)

3 - John Bonham (Led Zep)

4 - Ian Paice (Deep Purple, Whitesnake, Gary Moore group etc..)

5 - Animal (Muppets)

There are many drummers who play like demons, but not so many who are easilly recognisable through their sound and style. The above - not including the muppet, who I admire purely on grounds of Charisma and probable success with the opposite sex - are all instantly recognisable. Their contribution to their bands was always an integral part of the overal band sound.

I have tried to get into Bill Bruford, but have difficulty. I went to see his band, Earthworks at an art centre about 10 years ago, and could see he was very good. However, there are moments on 'Red' by KC, where he almost loses it in the opening title track, and you can hear him obviously struggling to keep time, whilst changing rhythm. Sorry, BB fans.

Menswear:

Re: Your NOT Prog rock drummers nominations. I couldn't agree more, especially Stewart Copeland and Keith Moon. Excellent choices. I used to think Copeland had a bit of a Neil Peart thing going on. Very tight and metronomic (great word, dont you think! - and how NP once described himself, and said he was trying to loosen up)

Dont know much about the Cranberries drummer, but I have liked most of what I have heard of their music.

I am a drummer myself and the only prog drummer I am afraid of is Bruford. Peart I could blow away.Easily.

ivan_2068 wrote: I was going to mention him but being an ex-drummer (even if I was just an average one), I notice some things that non drummers don't. He has a great talent, good style and enough strength(not too much even though) but IMO has a poor feet work. This (again IMHO) disqualifies him as a top drummer because feet work is very important for a drummer. Iván

a lot of my drummer friends always talk about feet work, double bass.. etc. although many would think that death and thrash metal drummers like Lombardo (slayer - Testament) are the best in feet work but i think the best feet work drummer is Portnoy (dream thatre)

i'd like to know what do Ivan and vibrationbaby think about this.  

Doom Hammer said:

a lot of my drummer friends always talk about feet work, double bass.. etc. although many would think that death and thrash metal drummers like Lombardo (slayer - Testament) are the best in feet work but i think the best feet work drummer is Portnoy (dream thatre)

IMO being loud with the feet is not a synonym of having good feet work, most metal drummers are only loud, even though there are great ones as Portnoy you mentioned.

I believe you can see the best feet work in Power Trios and the explanation is simple. A power trio musician due to the short number of instruments used simultaneously (specially on stage) need to be complete, every part of the body must be used to fill the terrible empty spaces left when there are not enough instruments, so or they are good with hands and feet or they can't play in a power trio, as simple as that.

Phil Collins (for example) is a great drummer, but he works better in big jazz bands, he doesn't has enough strength and feet work, if you hear him carefully, the tone of his drums is very high, the bass drum is almost not used, because in bands as Genesis he never had to be too loud (even when they were three, because on stage they played with Chester and Daryl), he only had to be fast and extremely imaginative, in Brand X is even more clear. Place him in a power trio and I'm almost sure he won't be as good.

Remember Keith Moon, another legend who also played in a band that worked as a power trio, The Who had four members but only three instruments and Roger Daltrey almost always exclusively sung, so power trio drummers are almost always amazing percussionists.

richardh wrote:

Carl Palmer was exceptional with the snare drum but less so with the bass drum which he used more in a percussive way

I believe Peart and Palmer have a wonderfull feet work, but Carl doesn't need to user bass drum as often as Peart for two reasons:

1) ELP is a low toned band mostly because Greg Lake's voice is so powerfull that covers mostly low ranges, so bass drum is not his main worry, he manages veru well the snares and metals. On the other hand Geddy Lee's voice is ultra high and Peart has to lower the tone using much more low toned bass drum, imagine if he used pure snare drums  (ideal snare sound lives somewhere between wood and metal shell drums)  or worked his feet more with metals, the sound would be so accute that it would hurt the listener ears.

2) ELP and Rush are both power trios, but Emerson with his keyboards replaces the sound of many instruments, so the band creates an effect as if they had more instruments, then Carl doesn't need to use bass drums to often because there are almost no empty spaces. Even though Geddy Lee plays keyboards on stage, the band's natural sound is guitar, bass and drums, so Peart has to use everything he can to cover more silence spaces.

Just to end, I am only trying to find an explanation for your question, because IMO Carl Palmer has a very solid bass drum, and never noticed any trouble with his bass drums, probably he uses them less because of the music requirements.

Iván

I had to find a translation for snare drums, because I don't manage well the terms in English.

Thanks for that Ivan.Actually some of Carl Palmer's bass drum work is impressive ,especially on Stones Of Years(Tarkus)  but he has always been recognised more for his work on the 'snare drum'.His great hero was the legendary Buddy Rich who excelled in this respect.

Vibrationbaby wrote: I am a drummer myself and the only prog drummer I am afraid of is Bruford. Peart I could blow away.Easily.

Yeah Riiiigghhhttt dude!!!..

Even if that is the case, I should warn you that I too used to beat the skins in numerous heavy metal bands. I bet you $1,000,000 (Canadian of course) that YOU could never fall off your drum stool, simultaneously dropping both sticks and almost knocking yourself out in front of 200 people, in the opening bar of your first song, like I once did. That takes REAL skill and showmanship..

Funny thing is, there was a guy from Fiction records there that night. He didn't pass comment on my dying drummer routine, but he was heard to say that he had often flushed more talented things, than our singer, down the toilet.  Which was nice....

Focussed wrote: Funny thing is, there was a guy from Fiction records there that night. he was heard to say that he had often flushed more talented things, than our singer, down the toilet.  Which was nice...

Tough gig.... Your not Mike Portnoy, are you?

danbo wrote: Focussed wrote: Funny thing is, there was a guy from Fiction records there that night. he was heard to say that he had often flushed more talented things, than our singer, down the toilet.  Which was nice... Tough gig.... Your not Mike Portnoy, are you?

No not me, mate. But, I was in some way cursed as a musician. Some of the gigs I played with numerous rock/indie bands ended up in mayhem, equipment smashed, people arrested, buildings evacuated due to excessive use of smoke machines setting off fire alarms etc.

And now my girlfriend wants to reform a band I was in years ago with her brother, with her as singer. I am too old for this....

  Spinal Tap Syndrome.

I only asked if you were Portnoy because you seemed to describe James LaBrie to a T in your earlier post about the Fiction records guy.


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Separating prog into "straight" prog (i.e., symphonic, art rock, etc.) and "fusion" prog (i.e., with more jazz elements), and separating both categories into "early" and "neo," here's my list:

Early straight: Bill Bruford (Crimson, Yes) , Phil Collins (Genesis, Brand X), Carl Palmer (ELP)

Early fusion: Billy Cobham, Narada Michael Walden (both Mahavishnu)

Neo straight: Neal Peart (Rush), Mike Portnoy (Dream Theater)

Neo fusion: Marco Matteuzzi, Claudio Tratta (both Deus ex Machina)

For my money, Matteuzzi and Tratta are the two best prog drummers in the world at this moment: both of them simply blow away both Peart and Portnoy (and arguably even Bruford and Collins).  Listen to Matteuzzi's work on De Republica, and Tratta's work on Diacronie Metronomiche, and then tell me with a straight face that there is anyone better.

Peace.

Definitely any of those guys.

Some other decidedly not prog guys that are truly amazing:

Flo-from the incredibly hardcore(extreme) metal band Cryptopsy. He's so fast you would swear he's a drum machine

Buddy Rich-because he is Buddy Rich

Alex Van Halen-Because "Hot for Teacher" is probably the best drum riff for my money, and for singlehandedly keeping Ziljdan in buisness.

Okay, so maybe not AVH. But I still think he's cool!

Carter Beauford- Dave Matthew's Band

Jeff Tain Watts- Winton Marsellis et al.

Menswear wrote: 3) Stewart Copeland---The Police

Copeland played for Curved Air!!!

lucas wrote: Once again, the best current drummer is VIRGIL DONATI. But there are loads of other great drummers : Bill Bruford, Phil Collins, Terry Bozzio, Neil Peart, Steve Negus, Ian Mosley, Nick D'Virglio, Rod Morgenstein, Mike Portnoy, Mark Zonder, Billy Cobham, Phil Ehart, Pip Pyle, Pierre Moerlen, Gary Husband, Vinnie Colaiuta, Chad Wackerman, Jerry Marotta, the late Jeff Porcaro, Robert Wyatt, Christian Vander, John Marshall, Tony Williams, Michael Giles, Simon Phillips, Hal Aponte (Ice Age), Andy Ward, Guy Evans, Carl Palmer, Nick Mason, Michi Dei Rossi (Le Orme), Marco Matteuzzi (Deus Ex Machina), Sean Reinhert, Barriemore Barlow, Chris Cutler, Paul Ramsey (Echolyn)

Interesting about 50% of your list would be claimed by jazz rock fusionist fans too - but I'm not arguing. Add Jon Hiseman to your list and many of Holdsworth's drummers would be there too!

I'm particularly surprised by those of us expressing surprise about the presence of Billy Cobham on many great albums - the early Mahavishnu Orchestra.  Cobham was the most in demand session drummer of the early 70's (as Dennis Chambers, Simon Phillips, Dave Weckl are today) - check many of the pioneering CTI's recordings - and highly influential on others, e.g.  Mouzon, Lenny White through to Isotope's drummer, who adopted the high speed, precise drum style of Cobham. Then you have his own albums Spectrum being one of those seminal jazz rock releases, on which Tommy Bolin reached his highest peak. Then there are the 70's Miles Davis recordings, work with Jack Bruce, etc..

ivan_2068 wrote: Menswear wrote: I'm sorry but I have to vote for Mattias Olsson He just blows my friggin' mind off. In Hybris, he was only 18! For the love of god, what talent. I was going to mention him but being an ex-drummer (even if I was just an average one), I notice some things that non drummers don't. He has a great talent, good style and enough strength(not too much even though) but IMO has a poor feet work. This (again IMHO) disqualifies him as a top drummer because feet work is very important for a drummer. Iván

IMHO for fully formed drummers aged 18 or less, check out Simon Phillips work on Phil Manzanera's 801 Live album.

And before I duck out, consider well the influence of the late Joe Morello (drummer of Dave Brubeck Quartet) amongst other jazz greats, had on young drummers who played prog in the 70's.

Two of my newer favorites include Sean Reinert from the Gordian Knot CD's and Bob Muller whose played on the Trey Gunn discs. They seem to play with a lot of percussive instruments other than restricting themselves with a standard drum kit and add some Eastern flavor to the recordings.

I saw Terry Bozzio perform a clinic and was totally amazed. Saw him with FZ many years ago. He takes the instrument to a different level. I've got the two CD's of "Solo Drum Music" that make a great use of melody and odd meters.

Pierre Morlein's solo "Percolations" in a great primer for the young ones wanting to get into drumming.

Tony Williams, IMHO is THE fusion man I'd have wanted behind the kit. Not as powerful as Cobham (Who is?) but more swinging and tasteful. Simon Philips is also an inventive player.

Rock - John Bonham (not the best metronome, but the sound!!!!!) 

Fusion - Tony Williams 

Prog - Bill Bruford

Art Rock - Terry Bozzio

Jazz - Gene Krupa (so fun to watch and wildly inventive)

Metal - Mike Portnoy (DT's a metal band 1st, prog 2nd)

danbo wrote:   Spinal Tap Syndrome.   I only asked if you were Portnoy because you seemed to describe James LaBrie to a T in your earlier post about the Fiction records guy. http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001"> http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb044">

Things did seem a bit Tap like for a while. although I'm yet to explode on my drum stool, and I have not had any bizzare gardening accidents.

I must admit I'm pretty ignorant about Dream Theatre. Dont really know anything about Mike Portnoy, except that he's a drummer. Who is JamesLaBrie?

Similar comments were made again about our singer by the manager of Neds Atomic Dustbin after a private party in a nightclub. We knew the girlfreind of their manager and thought we'd be clever by getting her to drag him along. Ok, our singer was not that good, but I thought was rich coming from the Neds. Anyone remember them???

Vibrationbaby wrote: Palmer is another drummer who scares me Rich!.

so you are saying that Palmer scares you and neither Peart nor Portnoy do ? strange   would like to know what you see in palmer more than the other two

lets hear it for the "old guys"

Bill Bruford-the best IMHO

Mike Portnoy-a close second

Phil Collins-stick to the drums,no more singing

Billy Cobham-fusions best

and so many more...............

prog4me

Hell, I haven't seen anybody mention Asgeir Michelson of Borknagar, Spiral Architect, and on albums by Vintersorg.  The guy is AWESOME!!!

As for the best drummer I ever heard, how about Tony Williams from Miles Davis' mid-60's quintet?  Anybody ever heard the song "Circle In the Round?"  Beyond belief.  And to think he was only 17 when he joined Miles' band.

Peace,

Ulf

Who does Bobby Jarzombek drum for? And is he related to Ron Jarzombek?

Something I don't think anyone's mentioned is the extra percussion of Neil Peart, especially on A Farewell to Kings, where he gets to play tuned percussion. I can't think of many other drummers in prog who've done that successfully, if there are please tell me!

goose wrote: Who does Bobby Jarzombek drum for? And is he related to Ron Jarzombek? Something I don't think anyone's mentioned is the extra percussion of Neil Peart, especially on A Farewell to Kings, where he gets to play tuned percussion. I can't think of many other drummers in prog who've done that successfully, if there are please tell me!

Jarzombek: Spastic Ink and "Yes" Bobby and Ron are bros.

Terry Bozzio is a user to tuned percussives. Mainly he uses piccolo drums for melody lines. Bill Bruford is another drummer who plays beyond the standard kit.  

THE GREATEST DRUMMER EVER EXISTED IS DIVIDED IN TWO PERSONS:

BUDDY RICH AND TONY WILLIAMS...

also, i can tell you that picking a favorite with a large universe like these is like picking a star in the sky... so i believe that every drummer has something to teach us

peace

Not being a drummer makes it a bit tougher to decide who's the best skinman. It's like asking a non golfer the difference between Ernie Els and David Duval. Anyhow...for what it's worth...

Terry Bozzio - For some reason his drum sounds aren't mixed well when he's in a band situation. i.e. Explorer's Club. He still kicks ass though.

Buddy Rich - R.I.P.

Bill Bruford, just listen to the three sides live album from genesis, in particular the 70 medley from side two!! And if that's not enough proof, just spin the U.K. album around once agian!

regards, Tim

For me, a good drummer is one whose influence is transparent to the listener. If I become aware of the drumming, the guy's not doing his job properly. The drummer's roll is provide the basic rhythms on which the rest of the band can build, not to dominate the music himself.

It's when the drummer feels the need to come to the fore that they spoil things, such as Carl Palmer's unnecessary drum solo on "Tank". I can understand that in a live performance situation, a drum solo can on occasions be relevant and justified, but on a studio album, never.

HI, THIS IS CÉSAR INCA.

In no particular order: Bill Bruford, Neil Peart, Terry Bozzio, Carl Palmer, Franz DiCioccio (of PFM), Pierre Moerlen.

Regards.

BILLY COBHAM!!!!  HE IS JUST INCREDIBLE!!!

He's for the drum what Stanley Clarke is for the bass guitar...a magician!

philippe wrote: BILLY COBHAM!!!!  HE IS JUST INCREDIBLE!!! He's for the drum what Stanley Clarke is for the bass guitar...a magician!

Yep, great drummer, Philippe. I discovered his solo career recently and it really amazed me. I also saw him live two years ago at the "Parc floral" in Vincennes, near Paris, still on top form. Not only is he a good drummer, but as Bruford and Donati, a good composer.

You've got to be kidding me...

The best prog drummer... then and now... at 54 yrs old.. is CARL PALMER

This picture was taken last Nov. in Scotland..

danbo wrote: Carl's kit sure has shrunk. He one one of the first to have 20 toms and 5 kettles and around 75 cymbals, not to mention the 15 foot gong.....

You forgot to mention the church bell

And the extremely heavy drum set by British Steel.. that collapsed a few stages and cost over a few hundred thousand dollars just to insure.  They also had to get medical insurance for the roadies who handled it...

The set that Carl has now is also metal.  It was recently made for him by Jeff Ocheltree (Jon Bonham's old drum tech from the 70s) who is now a drum kit designer for Paiste.  The set is made out of cymbal metal.. thats why as you can see.. the set and the cymbals are all the same color. 

He has toned down his equipment alot.  No more tymps, gongs or glockenspiel. He now plays those parts on the floor toms and cymbals.  He does do this cool balancing cymbal roll trick that is fun to watch.. I think I have a picture of it.. somewhat..

http://img6.photobucket.com/albums/v20/Pebble/Carl%20Palmer/CarlShows-Durham-Carl1.jpg - http://img6.photobucket.com/albums/v20/Pebble/Carl%20Palmer/ CarlShows-Durham-Carl1.jpg

Carl Palmer is a dwarf compared to Bill Cobham genius!

Jazz drummers are technically superior than the others!!! That's a matter of fact.

philippe wrote: Carl Palmer is a dwarf compared to Bill Cobham genius! Jazz drummers are technically superior than the others!!! That's a matter of fact.

Well Billy Cobham is genius... but I've seen him live quite a few times.. and he never did anything that gave me chills like Carl has on drumset... I've seen Carl in a room alone with just a snare... do things that most humans would find impossible.  Actually I've always thought he was somewhat of an alien.  He has a one hand snare roll that requires this bouncing thumb technique that he taught me some 30 years ago.. and even with a lot of practicing.. I still can't figure it out. 

Carl did a clinic last year with Danny Carey... he blew the poor boy off the stage. Danny was so awed.. he couldn't even play with Carl at the same time.,,,  Thats sort of what Carl did to me.. except I called home when I was 17 and told the folks to sell my drumset...

philippe wrote: Carl Palmer is a dwarf compared to Bill Cobham genius! Jazz drummers are technically superior than the others!!! That's a matter of fact.

You damn right. Jazz and blues are the basis of prog rock. Without talented, experienced musicians as Cobham, many prog rock productions could've been oversighted.

Still, my vote goes to Cozy Powell

How a Tauhd Zaïa can't prefer Christian Vander of MAGMA

.... and don't forget our french drummer Manu Katche (Peter Gabriel, Sting...)

philippe wrote: Carl Palmer is a dwarf compared to Bill Cobham genius! Jazz drummers are technically superior than the others!!! That's a matter of fact.

A certain jazz legend by the name of Buddy Rich had great respect for Palmer even once inviting him on stage to play with his orchestra.Carl didn't dissapoint! Carl Palmer circa 1973-1974 was a totally awesome player.

    There are so many great drummers that It's difficult to say who is the best.My choice is Carl Palmer.Then Terry Bozzio,Billy Cobham I think nobody mentioned Jon Hiseman.He was really great drummer.Somebody said that Carl Palmer is a dwarf?This must be a joke.

LENNY WHITE!!!...an impressive and really versatile drummer (played notably in Return to Forever and for Miles...)...Carl Palmer is technically fade compared to him

zappa123 wrote:     There are so many great drummers that It's difficult to say who is the best.My choice is Carl Palmer.Then Terry Bozzio,Billy Cobham I think nobody mentioned Jon Hiseman.He was really great drummer.Somebody said that Carl Palmer is a dwarf?This must be a joke.

I usually do mention Jon Hiseman on other 'drumming threads' but didn't on this one for some reason.I had the pleasure of seeing him with Colosseum not so long ago and he is well up there with the best. 

For me it is Phil Ehart! This guy has so much energy in his playing!

Best drummer - John (Stubby) Pepys

R.I.P., Stubby