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ExittheLemming View Drop Down

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Posted: June 30 2012 at 05:47

For a variety of different reasons, Progressive Electronic probably represents the future of PA (if such an entity has a future in it's present incarnation)

Dean

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Posted: June 30 2012 at 07:16

Ancient Tree wrote:

wait wait electonic prog is this

im confused

An easy confusion to make.

What we are talking about here is Progressive Electronic Rock, not Progressive House, or Progressive Electronic Trance. Electronic Dance Music (EDM) and it's close relative (subgenre) Intelligent Dance Music (IDM) are not connected to Progressive Rock at all (although there is inevitably some influence of Electronic Prog in some EDM and IDM, and latterly the other way around - some of the guys that make EDM and IDM music are influenced by Tangerine Dream, Kraftwerk, and even old-school Prog like Pink Floyd and Vangelis' 70s Prog band Aphrodite's Child).

To understand the distinction better you need to read Philippe's excellent definition/history of what we call Progressive Electronic (Rock), from that you may then appreciate why he/we are dismissive of many of the IDM-type suggestions that we get.

At the other end of the spectrum (i.e electronic music that is not associated with Dance or Prog Rock) is electro-accoustic music - this often lacks the "rock" element and is more akin to classical music and avant garde (as opposed to Avant Prog) - that uses sound manipulation rather than sound synthesis to create music - some of that does "crossover" into Progressive Electronic (Rock), but not much.

It is perhaps easier to define Electronic Progressive (Rock) by what it isn't rather than by what it is because there is an awful lot of music that is created using synthesisers and music synthesis that is not Progressive Electronic (Rock) - Wendy Carlos, Tomita and Kitarō are obvious examples, (which tend to push Vangelis and JM Jarre towards Prog Related rather than Prog Electronic (Rock) by association... discuss) - Aphex Twin and Autechre and various Warp artists also fall outside this category, along with a whole raft of "New Age" music that creates symphoinic and/or ambient music by electronic means and a hellofalot of synth-pop and post-punk electronic noise.

But that's not to say that people who like Tangerine Dream and Moebius don't (or won't) like Vangelis, Aphex twin or Caberet Voltaire.

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ExittheLemming View Drop Down

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Posted: June 30 2012 at 07:39

IDM, what about 'brain dead' dance music that you can sing along to in the bath innit? All joking aside, the side stepping and posturing re Electronic Prog c/f Electronic Prog that posits the possibility of a sentient audience is frankly pitiful to behold. Yes, the definition provided by Philipe is impressive and posits that the extant technologies available beget the innovation. One of the biggest obstacles to innovation is innovation itself. I also like to pretend that the hippy Kosmiche w**k is now firmly relegated to the margins of the popular consciousness. (sales figures might bear this out I dunno)

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Posted: June 30 2012 at 08:10

ExittheLemming wrote:

IDM, what about 'brain dead' dance music that you can sing along to in the bath innit? All joking aside, the side stepping and posturing re Electronic Prog c/f Electronic Prog that posits the possibility of a sentient audience is frankly pitiful to behold. Yes, the definition provided by Philipe is impressive and posits that the extant technologies available beget the innovation. One of the biggest obstacles to innovation is innovation itself. I also like to pretend that the hippy Kosmiche w**k is now firmly relegated to the margins of the popular consciousness. (sales figures might bear this out I dunno)

Linearity and continuity are the key elements here I suspect - Progressive Electronic Rock was born from hippy Pscydelic Rock on a parallel path that saw ELP and Symphonic Prog take one route while Electronic Prog (and Kosmiche Musik) branched off into a different direction. Since then there has been some convergence and crossover along the way as one would expect. Whether that music I would regard as cerebal is doubtful, I'm not able to give Timewind's an IQ test. Technology is a tool and cannot ceate innovation without creative input.

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ExittheLemming View Drop Down

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Posted: June 30 2012 at 08:18

Linearity? I'm lost, ain't this available to to the Osmonds re Crazy Horses and the Buchla synth?

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Posted: June 30 2012 at 08:35

ExittheLemming wrote:

Linearity? I'm lost, ain't this available to to the Osmonds re Crazy Horses and the Buchla synth?

sure - and the Beach Boys re Good Vibrations and the soundtrack to the Forbidden Planet, but none of those resulted in Tone Float or The Madcap's Flaming Duty - the linearity that connects (however tenuously or indirectly) the music considered to be PE is not the technology that enables it, since the technology can be used to create any form of music you care to name... is Hot Butter's Pop Corn electronic music created using the technology? Yes it is(I'll not link it here, I've committed enough musical vandalism on the site this week), but it is not PE nor is it connected by any linear path back to the route of PE or any later development of it.

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ExittheLemming View Drop Down

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Posted: June 30 2012 at 08:45

OK, but as excellent as Phillipe's definition is, like any other fallible critter, he ain't future proof and Timewind is a just a German hippy name-dropping Wagner/Raga as an aide to credibility.

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Posted: June 30 2012 at 09:27

Terrible how many treds turn in debates about def.

The title says electronic progressive (rock) appreciation

To me seems pretty clear that it's about appreciation of artists already in this sub-genre, and nothing else.

Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours

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Posted: June 30 2012 at 09:42

tamijo wrote:

Terrible how many treds turn in debates about def.

The title says electronic progressive (rock) appreciation

To me seems pretty clear that it's about appreciation of artists already in this sub-genre, and nothing else.

Terrible?

Gee thanks.

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colorofmoney91 View Drop Down

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Posted: June 30 2012 at 11:19

It's just awful, Dean. Stern Smile

But I don't mind people debating the subgenre's definition on this site, and I actually encourage it. I think progressive electronic (on this site) is something that a lot of our members don't understand, and a lot of members think other members don't understand (ahem Ermm

). I think this would be a good place to discuss the merits of calling various modern artists "progressive electronic" like Aphex Twin and F**k Buttons, though it's very clear that they don't deserve a spot on this site.

I see no real progressive merits in Deadmau5 thought.

Hanashukketsu

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Posted: June 30 2012 at 11:55

I had no intention of debating the genre def, and still don't - it's fine as it is. Just pointing out the difference between what the dance/trance crowd call Progressive Electronic and what we call Progressive Electronic - two completely seperate and unrelated genres - to a 14 yo who was confused by a YouTube video. That's all.

Edited by Dean - June 30 2012 at 11:55

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colorofmoney91 View Drop Down

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Posted: June 30 2012 at 12:04

Oh, right. I had just woken and my ability to understand things was fuzzy.

Well, debates are still cool.

Hanashukketsu

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Posted: June 30 2012 at 12:21

Anyway - an ex-Tangerine Dream member album I really like is Michael Hoenig's Departure from the Northern Wasteland

He released one solo album after that called Xcept One before going on to create soundtracks for film and TV. He also created some additional music for Godfrey Reggio/Philip Glass film Koyaanisqatsi.

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colorofmoney91 View Drop Down

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Posted: June 30 2012 at 12:26

I haven't heard his other solo album. Is it worth checking out? I think Departure is awesome.

Does anyone else besides Sheavy enjoy the gnarly industrial side of what we have on this site?

Hanashukketsu

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Posted: June 30 2012 at 12:41

Can we call electronic prog that thing with no electronic but that sounds electronic ?

Albert Marcoeur - Simone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEcHXCa6mnY&feature=related

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Posted: June 30 2012 at 12:45

^ I think we'll call it what it is - Avant Prog

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hellogoodbye View Drop Down

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Posted: June 30 2012 at 12:54

OK Dean. First time I hear the words Avant Prog, but I believe you.

Guldbamsen View Drop Down

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Posted: June 30 2012 at 12:58

I do enjoy me some noise n' grinding stuff Alan - as long as it's got some purpose to it. That clip you posted is pretty cool.

Dean: Hoenig's Wasteland never really struck a chord with me, but then again it has been collecting dust for about two years now, so I may have to re-listen.

Funny, seeing IDM mentioned before - as I am currently on a huge The Future Sound of London kick. I love those guys.

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lazland

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Posted: June 30 2012 at 13:43

Guldbamsen wrote:

Brilliant idea Alan Clap

About time too... Well, it's getting kind of late over here, but let me start out by saying that I enjoy nearly all facets of this 'genre'. Whether we're dealing with Berlin School or the cryptic almost zeuhlish French take on progressive electronic, I'm there!

I will be up in this place like salt on a tomato, but first things first: Every average Joe's gotta start somewhere, and maybe the very best way to launch yourself into these electrified lands is just like Steve did here with the most seductive Tangerine Dream. Or maybe Harald Grosskopf's classic Synthesist from 1980 will better start your journey. It sure is a magnificent album, and an 'easy' sonic snack. I mean just have a listen:

Harald obviously started out, just like Klaus Schulze did, behind the drum-kit -playing for Agitation Free and then moving on to all kinds of German Krautrock legends - also lending a helping hand on Schulze's own albums actually. Something must've kept, because when he finally decided to go solo, he did create something much in the same vein, although slightly more creamy and accessible.

Sleep tight out there! I'll be back Big smile

EDIT:

Hahah, already seen Man With Hat posting here, and bugger me if that Grosskopf 'direction' isn't the direct opposite of what this man needs.

For all you strange avant beings out there - jump straight on to this:

Just like Hugues mentioned in his brilliant review today (or yesterday?), the best way of getting the good Igor's albums, is the box set called Donc Big smile

I like this, nice and bright & breezy. Call me mad, but I hear traces here of whrre Tony Banks could have gone from albums such as /the /fugitive if he had chosen to do so.

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Guldbamsen View Drop Down

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Posted: June 30 2012 at 13:55

^I am obviously speculating here, but you're referring to the first track right? LOL

The parallel is actually not that far off, though I hadn't made it myself before. Breezy is perhaps the best way of describing that album. You're dead on. The whole album is like that, and it genuinely feels like having a shoreline transported straight into your living-room.

If you want something akin a tad more to symphonic Steve, then you should try Zombi on for size. Their Spirit Animal is a real humdinger Thumbs Up

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