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Dellinger 
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 Posted: October 06 2011 at 21:32 |
 moshkito wrote:
Hi,
I think it's a dead horse ... I keep thinking that all we're trying to do is to re-live a moment from yesteryear, and I'm not sure it can be done. If they did it and they had new material for an hour, it would be worth it, but watch everyone here immediately say that it is not as good as something else, or say that it sounds terribly outdated and boring because it does not have the edge of the music these days. Something like that ...
In my book, Phil burned himself out with too much work and touring ... and is paying the price for it, and is the main reason why he is "retired". Steve Hackett is all over the place with everyone and the kitchen sink. Peter is on his own trip. Mike, who knows ... maybe another evening with another mechanic! ... and Tony ... comes off like another lazy person that does not do anything except a Genesis song once every month!
These guys have toured enough and burned themselves up enough. So for them to spend the rest of their time resting and doing something else is just fine with me. We all age, and have to slow down, except that a rock audience does not like to believe that their heroes should die and go to PA heaven!
Let it go!
There are others out there just as good and deserving that you are not listening to. |
Well, for many like you, whom had the oportunity to see them live back in the 70's, it may be unnecesary (and I perhaps they wouldn't be as good now as they were then, anyway). But for other like me, who haven't had the oportunity yet, I would gladly see them live now.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 29402
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Posted: October 07 2011 at 01:35 |
Crumbler wrote:
(please excuse my ignorance in advance)
Does PG the solo act ever perform any of his Genesis era work in concert?
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I don't think so and probably the reason is that he didn't really 'own' any Genesis songs. What I mean by that is there is not a Genesis song I can think of that is Gabriel's and could be considered to have his stamp totally on it. As far as I know Banks was the main writer although many were collaborative efforts involving all members of the band.
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Chris S
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Posted: October 07 2011 at 03:05 |
^ Yeah but still he would have full access to all material up to The Lamb..... Reading the Stones article I would have to say that was the most positive a " No" PG has ever sounded. I would be happy if he did " Moonlit Knight" or " The Lamia" on one of his solo shows.
The boys are getting on a bit now and none of them are preserved in pickle like the Rolling Stones 
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
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Points: 13792
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Posted: October 07 2011 at 11:35 |
richardh wrote:
Crumbler wrote:
(please excuse my ignorance in advance)
Does PG the solo act ever perform any of his Genesis era work in concert?
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I don't think so and probably the reason is that he didn't really 'own' any Genesis songs. What I mean by that is there is not a Genesis song I can think of that is Gabriel's and could be considered to have his stamp totally on it. As far as I know Banks was the main writer although many were collaborative efforts involving all members of the band. |
In the very early days of his solo career, i.e. Car & Scratch, Gabriel did actually perform Genesis material, predominantly from The Lamb. This stopped around the time of the third album - he wanted to carve out an identity on his own.
Rather ironically, the punk movement really warmed to Gabriel, and Rael was seen as one of their own.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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kenmartree
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 14 2007
Location: oregon
Status: Offline
Points: 356
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Posted: October 07 2011 at 12:16 |
richardh wrote:
Crumbler wrote:
(please excuse my ignorance in advance)
Does PG the solo act ever perform any of his Genesis era work in concert?
|
I don't think so and probably the reason is that he didn't really 'own' any Genesis songs. What I mean by that is there is not a Genesis song I can think of that is Gabriel's and could be considered to have his stamp totally on it. As far as I know Banks was the main writer although many were collaborative efforts involving all members of the band. |
I've seen Gabriel 6 times and never seen him do a genesis song, not that it bothered me. my first show was security tour so he'd stopped by then, which is consistant with what lazland steve, said. I don't need a reunion, I feel lucky to have seen the shows I did and I just don't think it would be the same, gabriel era genesis is theatrical and I just don't see Gabriel going there again, you can't go back it time and I think Peter would recommend going to see the Musical Box if that's the kind of show you want
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18060
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Posted: October 07 2011 at 13:31 |
Dellinger wrote:
...
Well, for many like you, whom had the oportunity to see them live back in the 70's, it may be unnecesary (and I perhaps they wouldn't be as good now as they were then, anyway). But for other like me, who haven't had the oportunity yet, I would gladly see them live now. |
Not quite.
There are a few of my "old timers" that are worth seeing, because, for them, the music ... is all they know, live, and will die with it. If you see Neil Young today, you will see the same wild child that you saw 40 years ago, maybe with a guitar instead of a piano. If you get a chance to see Bob Dylan, it's worth it, because he is one of the great poets of the 20th century, and you should see him before he departs ... but seeing rock stars whose work and meaning is marginal at best, is sometimes futile and sad ... and not worth it.
I love Gong with all my heart and its folks ... but seeing them in concert trying to do Gong again, is one of the saddest things I have ever seen. I would rather see Daevid, or Gilly, or Bloomdido, by themselves, doing their own poetry and work, and see Daevid and Gilly for the great Beat Poets that they are, that this board and its members do not recognize, or understand.
It's sort of like seeing Chuck Berry do sweet little 16 when he's 80 ... when you see it, the first thing you gonna do is say ... yukkkk ... and then leave and say ... no, that was not good, that was sad ... and the youngsters all said ... that was pathetic. And I wouldn't want Chuck, or Peter, or Phil or anyone else, to not enjoy their time and space and the wonderful influence they offered many of us.
Now if you want to see Peter Hammill, or Roy Harper, or the real "pure poets", then they never age ... and tomorrow they will have another song, another poem ... but you have to be open to it ... and many of us are not ... because we want to listen to something that belongs to that time and place, with the socio-political relevance of those days ... that we refuse to let go, and want to commercialize ...
All of these bands are done.
It's a new day and time.
MAKE RELEVANT the artists of today! So they also have a chance to represent this day in time tomorrow!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18060
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Posted: October 07 2011 at 13:53 |
Hi,
I would never ask, or want, PG to do something from Genesis.
I would rather bring him to my living room, turn on the midi and computer, setup the piano, and let him loose. If he wanted to play a guitar fine ... show me the "poetic side", the "poetic nature" ... of it all, where PG really comes from. THAT is priceless, and is the beauty that makes an artist. Doing something that has been done before is not on everyone's list, and all you are stating is that you want the ghost of Christmas past to come back and give you that present again ... and that time is long past and gone.
There are a lot of things I would love to see, or that I failed to see. I'm not bitter about them. I'm not sad about them.
Why?
Because the music, the life and the beauty is already living inside me, and I don't need to see it "alive", even when the person is 85, to tell me of its validity and its worth! ... it's like saying you have to see Beethoven, or Mozart, in order to appreciate it more ... and that is silly and then some.
And all it is showing is that our music appreciation, or art appreciation has not grown past the "fan" stage, into the "art" status ... because you still feel that you have to have that physical connection. C'mon ... isn't that a bit boring when you're still hoping to get that girl in high school that you did not get?
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18060
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Posted: October 07 2011 at 13:56 |
lazland wrote:
In the very early days of his solo career, i.e. Car & Scratch, Gabriel did actually perform Genesis material, predominantly from The Lamb. This stopped around the time of the third album - he wanted to carve out an identity on his own.
....
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Weird ... I don't remember him doing any Genesis when I saw him with Random Hold, and that would be what ... the 1st and 2nd album?
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Crumbler
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 11 2011
Location: USA: Maryland
Status: Offline
Points: 14
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Posted: October 07 2011 at 16:54 |
moshkito wrote:
lazland wrote:
In the very early days of his solo career, i.e. Car & Scratch, Gabriel did actually perform Genesis material, predominantly from The Lamb. This stopped around the time of the third album - he wanted to carve out an identity on his own.
....
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Weird ... I don't remember him doing any Genesis when I saw him with Random Hold, and that would be what ... the 1st and 2nd album? |
I understand what you are saying, but he was an integral part of those pieces, and he is still around and performing and his voice is not shot (unlike Dylan's). It would be great if he surprised the audience with a PG-era Genesis song in concert, or better yet have the old band surprise everyone and show up on stage for an encore...not a full-fledged reunion, just a song or two. Now that would be fantastic.
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cstack3
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Posted: October 07 2011 at 17:13 |
Gabriel should just hire Musical Box & do the "Lamb" tour on his own!! That way he could keep all the money (or most of it).
Musical Box does a fantastic job with "The Lamb," PG could do worse. It sounds like the rest of the band has moved on from the '70's catalog.
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Intruder
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Points: 2210
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Posted: October 08 2011 at 11:02 |
I'd like to see a Hackett-Banks-Rutherford trio backed by the New Blood Orchestra.....no percussion necessary (I used to love Phil's drumming but the poor guy's body is shot). New innovations to old product.....I could imagine a subtle, moody Watcher with the strings building and building to a Hackett freak out....oh, the things they could do. I wish they'd move away from the idea of redoing the Lamb or having to do more by note renditions.....I wish they'd think of stretching things out and including what they've been working on.....maybe even some new music together. New blood, indeed!
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I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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bucka001
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 16 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 864
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Posted: October 12 2011 at 13:48 |
moshkito wrote:
All of these bands are done.
It's a new day and time. |
Actually, you rightly mentioned Hammill and it should be noted that the VdGG reunion has been pretty successful on all levels. No embarassment there (I've seen them eleven times since '05 and they've been strong every time).
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jc
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bucka001
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 16 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 864
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Posted: October 12 2011 at 13:55 |
moshkito wrote:
lazland wrote:
In the very early days of his solo career, i.e. Car & Scratch, Gabriel did actually perform Genesis material, predominantly from The Lamb. This stopped around the time of the third album - he wanted to carve out an identity on his own.
....
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Weird ... I don't remember him doing any Genesis when I saw him with Random Hold, and that would be what ... the 1st and 2nd album? |
The PG/Random Hold tour was for the third album. He probably didn't do any Genesis at that time. But for the first album tour he definitely did Back in NYC as an encore, and he did the Lamb Lies Down... as an encore with the second album tour.
That third album tour was interesting. David Rhodes played on PG's third album, but he was in opening band Random Hold on that tour and had to listen to John Ellis play his guitar parts every night in PG's band. Of course, Random Hold broke up soon after and Rhodes became a member of PG's band. Also around that time, John Ellis met Peter Hammill backstage at one of the PG concerts on that third album tour. Ellis had long been a Hammill fan and went on to record and tour quite a lot with Peter H after that meeting. And another connection... Peter Hammill produced the Random Hold album! Another connection still... both Ellis and Hammill were on PG's fourth album (Hammill sang backing vocals on Shock The Monkey, Family And The Fishing Net, and maybe Lay Your Hands On Me [can't remember])
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jc
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18060
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Posted: October 14 2011 at 20:17 |
bucka001 wrote:
moshkito wrote:
All of these bands are done.
It's a new day and time. |
Actually, you rightly mentioned Hammill and it should be noted that the VdGG reunion has been pretty successful on all levels. No embarassment there (I've seen them eleven times since '05 and they've been strong every time). |
And I think that it was successful, because PH and his work was never about the hits and the fame ... it was a bout the music, the lyrics and the work itself, and everyone of us that was lucky enough to catch him, knows that this is a special moment to catch a major poet at work, regardless of the fact that he is by himself or with his friends that we have become so fond of.
I have never looked at it all as "progressive", and have always thought of these folks as "artists" ... while it's hard for me to not consider ELP, or Genesis, or YES, by the monicker of "artist" ... too much pop music in there for me, this is the reason why I have always appreciated the bands that changed so much, that the majority of folks here on this board can't handle it!
It's the same thing with the krautrock thing. It changed so much and so hard and so different, that most can't handle or are capable of seeing why Wolf City, or Dance of the Lemmings, or Tago Mago are in many ways so much more progressive than almost all of the albums listed on the top ten in this board ... with one exception ... many of those fans have never sat and heard this other stuff to even make a decent comparison! ... They just voted for their favorite!
And many of us had the option on that day and age to listen to it, and even then, in those days, I left all of these popular groups, because PH and VdGG was far superior, but they were also way too obstuse for most listeners and still are today ... all you have to do is check some of the fan mentality in some of these metal posts ... and Peter would have been way more "metal" than all of these 40 years ago ... but these folks never heard "Silent Corner and Empty Stage", and probably couldn't get past 5 minutes of that album!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18060
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Posted: October 14 2011 at 20:19 |
bucka001 wrote:
. ..
The PG/Random Hold tour was for the third album. He probably didn't do any Genesis at that time. But for the first album tour he definitely did Back in NYC as an encore, and he did the Lamb Lies Down... as an encore with the second album tour.
That third album tour was interesting. David Rhodes played on PG's third album, but he was in opening band Random Hold on that tour and had to listen to John Ellis play his guitar parts every night in PG's band. Of course, Random Hold broke up soon after and Rhodes became a member of PG's band. Also around that time, John Ellis met Peter Hammill backstage at one of the PG concerts on that third album tour. Ellis had long been a Hammill fan and went on to record and tour quite a lot with Peter H after that meeting. And another connection... Peter Hammill produced the Random Hold album! Another connection still... both Ellis and Hammill were on PG's fourth album (Hammill sang backing vocals on Shock The Monkey, Family And The Fishing Net, and maybe Lay Your Hands On Me [can't remember]) |
Yep ... have ALL these albums and have the t-shirt, the experience, and the enjoyment of seeing something fabulous with great musicians. Some say that the Levin days were better in concert, but when I check out the bootlegs and compare, I prefer the stuff in these earlier days way better! And I have not heard any Genesis stuff even in those early boots, btw ... but will have to recheck them if I can ever find them! Gave those up many moons ago, when I was so broke, the heart cried!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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progistoomainstream
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Posted: October 14 2011 at 21:13 |
It would be incredible. Especially if Gabriel would wear his famous costumes. I do not think this would ever happen though. Gabriel is too independent
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The_Jester
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Posted: October 16 2011 at 14:21 |
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I don't mind of a reunion with Genesis but I always wanted him to play his old Genesis songs on a tour.
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La victoire est éphémère mais la gloire est éternelle!
- Napoléon Bonaparte
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The Doctor
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Posted: October 16 2011 at 14:44 |
Horizons wrote:
Sadly i hear too much of this.
But he has a point - he is enjoying the music he does now so why stop to make a flawed tour that people have been wanting for so long?
Supper's Ready would be cool to hear on his tour though! |
I just wish he would favor us with an album of new material. Scratch My Back was good for what it was, and I'm not really interested in getting his orchestral reinterpretations of old songs. C'mon Pete, if you're not going to get back together with the boys from Genesis, at least give us a new album with new material. If you're going to rehash old glories, then for the love of god, do it with Banks, Rutherford, Collins and Hackett.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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cstack3
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Posted: October 16 2011 at 17:24 |
progistoomainstream wrote:
It would be incredible. Especially if Gabriel would wear his famous costumes. I do not think this would ever happen though. Gabriel is too independent |
Welcome aboard! No need to shout!
Gabriel recently mentioned the costumes in an interview, they've fallen into serious disrepair. Carpet Crawler costume, bat-wing, etc. He said that the "old man" mask from Watchers was a commercial product, easily found.
But I agree, Peter would find little attraction in going so far backwards. I think that the possibility of ANY such reunion is exactly zero.
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Horizons
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Posted: October 16 2011 at 19:41 |
The Doctor wrote:
Horizons wrote:
Sadly i hear too much of this.
But he has a point - he is enjoying the music he does now so why stop to make a flawed tour that people have been wanting for so long?
Supper's Ready would be cool to hear on his tour though! |
I just wish he would favor us with an album of new material. Scratch My Back was good for what it was, and I'm not really interested in getting his orchestral reinterpretations of old songs. C'mon Pete, if you're not going to get back together with the boys from Genesis, at least give us a new album with new material. If you're going to rehash old glories, then for the love of god, do it with Banks, Rutherford, Collins and Hackett.
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I agree, even though i'm a big fan of his solo material i dislike the cover/remake albums.
Up was brilliant, but that took a long time to "build"
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Peter Gabriel Plays Down Genesis Reunion
